If Edwards loses in both Iowa and NH, should he drop out and

[cali]

endorse Obama? Edwards may win Iowa and post a good enough showing in NH, but it's just as likely that he won't. If he doesn't, should he keep going through Super Tuesday, or drop out and endorse Obama?

[Progress And Change]

1. endorse clinton to stop obama and ensure we win in november

[themaguffin]

5. If Clinton, the nominee, then we're looking at Pres Gulihuckiromney

[Progress And Change]

13. obama is too much of a coward to win the general

The only reason he is competetive in the primary is that Edwards did the heavy lifting in weakening Clinton. If it weren't for Edwards the weak Obama would still be muddling along twenty points behind Obama.

If Obama doesn't have the balls to stand up to Hillary how do you think he can fight the Republican machine's onslaught in the general?

[themaguffin]

16. Pretty naice to equate primary strategy to GE

In any case, nobody will bring out the GOP vote like Hillary. And the added bonus is Clintonian responses to questions in the debates. She's making their campaign TV spots for them.

[Progress And Change]

25. if he wouldnt fight now what makes you think he will fight in the general?

Obama has plenty of such statements as well. The press just does not call him on it.

[themaguffin]

57. You just contradicted yourself

In any case, in most instances fighting a primary fight and a GE one are very different.

[RiverStone]

21. If it's Clinton - we will suffer another Dukakis like defeat

Gawd, maybe only 1 in 7 Dems I know are even pondering a vote for her. And this includes relatives I have in GA, NY, and CA.

The damn M$M has sure wagged the dog on this one. Tho people are finally starting to see the race more realistically.

And BTW, I hope after super Tues those Dems clearly out of it will at least get out of it and stop splitting Dem votes (yep - even DK). As far as endorsing another...too early to speculate.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. She's Been Beat Up In The Press For Six Weeks In A Row And She Still Beats All Pugs In Aggregate

Polling:


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html


A candidate with less chops would have quit the race by now and gone home but Hillary Clinton stands tall... She doesn't cry... She doesn't cower... She doesn't hide... She takes the shots and keeps coming...That's character...

[RiverStone]

28. She may have character...

But can she win?

Your admiration of her not withstanding, talk to people in the streets...

Mainstreet USA from any corner of the country. My Dem friends (and I) see her as pandering to an elite class - a corporate class with talking points straight out of the DLC. Folks that don't pay attention like us political junkies on DU don't like her very much (they like Bill - but not Hillary).

Beyond that, do you really think she can win in the south, the mountain west? We need to do all we can to WIN! I can't fathom what another puke president would do to our civil liberties.

Do you really think Hillary can win in every region of the country?

I don't.

Edwards, IMO - has a much better chance. Obama second to him - Hillary...no way.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. You Ignored The Data I Cited

She beats all Republican challengers...Here's the link again if you want to look:


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html


Here's another link to dozens and dozend of state polls... She's leading in many red states and holding all the blue ones:


http://www.surveyusa.com/electionpolls.aspx



I'm an empiricist...I really don't get that excited over anecdotal data... I live in one of the reddest counties in Florida...If I relied on personal observation I would think Democrats hardly exist...

[RiverStone]

50. yes and no

Technically I read the polls, but you assume the M$M reports the truth accurately.

Remember, the corporate M$M wants Hillary to win - back to the tail wagging the dog.

If you believe what you read, then I can see where you see HRC as leading.

All I know (also just based on personal observation) is friends in all corners say they see little or no enthusiasm for Hillary; relatives in California don't see her winning, same for relatives in Georgia --- I'm mystified who these Hillary supporters are??? Even on DU she gets what - 1 in 5?

One thing for sure, either your believing fantasy numbers or I'm ignoring real ones.

Lets just hope who ever is right, we have a Dem moving into the White House in January 2009.


peace~ :)

[ChiciB1]

41. Great Statement! I Agree! So I'm Sticking With Edwards Myself...

I have no animus toward Obama, just don't think it's his time for now!!

[jenmito]

6. There's no way in the world he'd endorse Hillary. He should endorse Obama to keep Hillary from

winning anything.

[Progress And Change]

12. if edwards wants universal health care, change, and dem victory in 08' he will endorse Hillary

Why would Edwards be hellbent on stopping Hillary? She is more progressive than Obama.

[Kucinich4America]

51. Mandatory corporate healthcare is NOT universal health care.

And Hillary is "progressive" like PPI is "progressive". In other words, not.

[jenmito]

56. You just keep putting out misinformation.

Hillary's the opposite of Edwards on everything but health care.

[Deep13]

9. Yeah, I'm not that confident in Obama.

I'm also concerned that either Obama or JE would become another Jimmy Carter. However popular Carter is now, he was a disaster in the WH both for the nation and the D. party.

[Occam Bandage]

2. I'd prefer he do that tomorrow. He doesn't have the infrastructure to compete Super Tuesday.

[Deep13]

3. If he loses Iowa or wins and HRC is second...

...then he should call it quits.

Frankly I don't consider Edwards and Obama to be cut from the same cloth. If HRC comes in second in Iowa and first in NH, then it's over. Whoever is left should support her. If not, the we won't know until February.

[jenmito]

4. I think if he loses IOWA he should drop out.

After all, he had to take matching funds, so he won't have the money to remain competitive. And he's been practically living in IA since '04, so if he doesn't win there, he won't win anywhere. I think even if he wins by only a slim margin in IA, and doesn't win NH, he'll have to (or should) drop out. Let the people rally around Obama who has the money to compete with Hillary.

[Progress And Change]

10. polls show edwards supporters overwhelmingly prefer clinton over obama

And Clinton supporters prefer Edwards over Obama. If Edwards falters, which is possible but by no means assured, his support will mostly go to Clinton, the more progressive and transformative of the two big budget candidates.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Good Point

And HRC is also the second choice of Biden , Richardson, and Dodd voters, if you believe the polls as everybody here now does... After NH it could be just HRC and Obama...

We'll see what happens then...

[Progress And Change]

15. i didn't know she was #2 for everyone else too

If the polls are accurate about her being the #2 for the other groups then Obama has no shot unless he can somehow keep this a three candidate race up to Super Tuesday.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Here

"she wins the lion’s share of support among those who make Biden their first choice, and she does well among those who would first choose New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson."

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1395


I am making , imho, the not illogical inference that Biden and Richardson supporters in Iowa are not atypical of Biden and Richardson supporters elsewhere...

Let me add they are both fine men and I would happily support them if they were the nominee...

[Progress And Change]

22. i am making the same inference based on nh polling

Thanks for sharing that. This is good news.

[MadBadger]

31. Do you have a link that supports this claim?

[jenmito]

35. Not true according to the Zogby poll DSB posted:

"Among those who make Obama their first choice, Edwards is their second choice, and vice versa. Among those who make Clinton their first choice, Obama is the favorite second choice."

[Progress And Change]

36. weird. in nh what i said is so but iowa is different for some reason

[jenmito]

39. In NH Edwards has little support. And once Obama wins Iowa, he'll

clean up in NH and everywhere else, too. Glad I could clear up the facts for you and others. ;)

[Progress And Change]

40. edwards has about 15% in NH. that is significant

If Edwards indeed is done after Iowa his support may decide the outcome in New Hampshire--and there his supporters overwhelmingly prefer Clinton as their second choice.

[jenmito]

44. It was at 10 or 11% from a poll I saw on MSNBC this morning

and the only link I saw showed Edwards' supporters prefer Obama to Hillary in IA (you never gave a link backing up your NH claim), and I seriously doubt Edwards would endorse HILLARY when his (current) views are so much more in line with Obama's.

[Progress And Change]

49. the aggregate average for him is 15% and he is as high as 18% in one poll

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/new_hampshire-primary.html

In two of the polls Edwards is only five or six points behind Obama...

The Edwards/Clinton link I am talking about is from one of the polls released over the weekend. I think it was the MSNBC poll.

Edwards' views are closer to Obama's on the issues. Universal health care is the biggest one. How can Edwards endorse someone who opposes UHC like Obama? People are mistakenly asssuming there is a big difference in the views of Clinton and Obama. They are very similar and where they are not Clinton is probably more progressive, if you give weight to the big issues like health care. She also takes stands and is a fighter. Obama ducks the big issues and has been a coward in criticizing Clinton all year. If he can't stand up to her how is he going to battle the right's onslaught in the general?

[jenmito]

52. The LATEST poll shows Edwards at only 10%. And Edwards agrees with Obama

on taking money from lobbyists, being against K/L, and other things. And Obama has proven he can not only take a hit from Hillary, but he can hit back with a sense of humor while stinging like a bee. He has proven he can and will fight back against ANYONE.

[Progress And Change]

59. aggergate polling is more reliable since pollsters use different methods...

...and given samples will yield slightly different results. The latest poll has him at 10%. He was at 16% in the next most recent one.

Taking money from lobbyists versus universal health care. Which do you think deserves more emphasis? K/L has been discussed a lot so I don't want to rehash that here.

Obama has shown he can hit back but he has not shown that he can be aggressive. He is reactive, not proactive. He was behind by twenty points but still was soft on Hillary. It took Edwards' aggressive attacks on Hillary to make this a race. Voters perversely are giving Obama the benefit of what Edwards did...

[jenmito]

65. At this stage, the most recent polls count most as things are changing day by day

and we're getting much closer to the important days of voting.

Taking money from lobbyists seems more important since many people don't LIKE the mandatory health care Edwards and Hillary want to force on us. You may not want to talk about K/L but many people DO. That's a matter of not learning from the past and Edwards slams Hillary at every opportunity, saying she's like the neocons.

Obama HAS shown he can be aggressive. You're already changing your tune that he couldn't hit back. Being able to go up against the Clintons proves he can go up against anyone. Yes, the primary is not the place for someone to behave like Edwards has, and that's why Obama was the benefactor.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. Go To Page Three

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/071207_MSNBC_%20NH_%20DEM_%20Primary_Pol.pdf


By a margin of approximately 3-2 Hillary Clinton is the second choice of Edwards supporters and as the other links demonstrate she is the overwhelming second choice of Biden and Richardson supporters...

I can't wait for them to be mano a mano....

[surfermaw]

30. Wait untill the black lash for Oprah, bites you in the ssa

Edwards is the winner in Iowa,

[jenmito]

37. You obviously have it backwards...

Wait until the Oprah factor starts taking effect. Obama is the winner in Iowa.

[oasis]

42. You can keep Oprah. Hillary will campaign with Vilsack. He's actually served Iowans. (eom)

[jenmito]

54. You're funny. Yeah, Vilsack is gonna do it for Hillary.

:rofl:

[oasis]

60. So you believe Oprah speaks to the needs of Iowans better than Vilsack.

"The Politics of Hope" has taken on new meaning.:wow:

[asdjrocky]

7. Absolutely not-

He is in this to win, and super Tuesday could mean something for a change.

[Nutmegger]

11. Edwards 2008!

I'm with Edwards until the end. He can do this!

[cali]

18. rocky, if he loses in Iowa and NH

he won't stand a chance. That's hardly a revolutionary thought. It's simply basic political mathematics.

[asdjrocky]

43. Yeah, I understand the reality of the situation-

But, I've never gone into any game thinking I'm going to loose. And, I think with his work ethic, he's going to have a problem with quitting before the race is over.

After meeting our candidate, and the people that work for him, it's going to take a lot more than a "what if" scenario, to make me say he should ever quit.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Why Would He Endorse Obama?

He thought it was going to be himself and Clinton in a two person race until Obama upset his plans... I'm sure Hillary Clinton feels the same way... Obama messed up both their plans...

[stevietheman]

19. Edwards should hang on through Super Tuesday...

in fact, as other candidates drop out (and they will), I think we'll see a coalescing of the remainder behind him. I also think a lot of the Obama support is weak, and there will be a good deal of voting booth conversions due to his lack of experience.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. Experience ?

He has more legislative experience than John Edwards

[hayu_lol]

23. Edwards should not drop out...

he should continue to run, alongside Dennis, they can talk on the way to the end of the primary as they battle for bottom spot.

[MethuenProgressive]

24. If he's 3rd or higher - he stays in. If Biden or Richardson pass him, he's toast.

When he does quit, it'll be after he "challenges" voters to support him - "or else".

[Hell Hath No Fury]

27. Drop out after two states?

This is what I love -- as a Californian I am sick and fucking tired of getting absolutely SHIT to say about who becomes the Democratic candidate for President. Thanks so much, Iowa and New Hampsire, for choosing for me, because, god forbid, a state like California or New York, or even Florida have a say. :eyes:

I want as many candidates in for as long as possible -- the good candiates, the bad candidates, the mediocre candidates. As many Democrats as possible should have a say as to who the nominee is.

[cali]

29. oh, please, don't whine to me about it. I vote in March

and the way I see it, that's just the breaks. Super Tuesday will decide the nomination, and as a Californian you get to participate in that. The thing about Edwards is he put all his eggs in the Iowa basket. If he loses there, he's not viable. That was his choice.

[bunnies]

32. Its not exactly a bed of roses voting in NH you know.

Your post is a great example of why it really sucks at times. You want to be the one getting bagged on because your state didnt please everyone with their votes? You can have it as far as Im concerned. Take the burden. Please.

[cali]

34. I'm actually one of the few that think that New Hampshirites

do a damned good job taking their votes in the primary seriously.

[bunnies]

47. thanks cali.

I dont think many people realize how much many NH voters really *do* think about what the rest of the country wants. And the truth is that we have such a small amount of delegates that just about any other state can easily override us.

But you know, it doesnt even matter which states go first, the outcome has absolutely zero chance of making everyone happy.

I just hope no one drops out after NH this year. I'd like to have one election without backlash.

Thanks for the sentiments. :hi:

[GreenArrow]

38. He should drop out and endorse Kucinich

.

[Occam Bandage]

45. Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing him resign himself to obscurity.

[Kucinich4America]

48. Absolutely!

It's hard for me to determine whether Edwards is sincere with all of his rhetoric about saving the middle class, because of his associations with the Bilderbergers and the DLC, who are both dedicated to destroying the middle class.

But, should John be serious about such things, and drops out of the race himself, then Dennis Kucinich is the ONLY candidate he could endorse who is definitely committed to people, not corporations.

[Stop Cornyn]

46. If any candidate hasn't won a primary or caucus before Big-Tuesday should they remain? Only Kucinich

because he's not running to win the nomination but to affect the debate instead.

[Freddie Stubbs]

53. He may hold out hope for South Carolina

[elizm]

55. He's way behind in SC now. nt

[Gloria]

61. If he drops out, he can't continue to speak out...which means, I probably

will "drop out", too. H and O are not doing it for me and I'm beyond the "getting on the bandwagon" stage of life.

I will vote Edwards in NM just because I WANT to, even if it means nothing to the world....but it will mean something for me.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

62. He really ought to drop out after IA.

[Beacool]

63. I'm not for Edwards, but why should he drop out?

He should hang in until Super Tuesday if he comes at least third in the early states. In politics anything can happen.......

[ruggerson]

64. Why do you think he'd endorse Obama?

[hayu_lol]

66. If true, this latest 'stick your foot in your mouth' gambit by Edwards...

will do him in.

His mandatory healthcare with proof of health insurance going with tax returns to the IRS...and if no proof is tendered, then the IRS can garnish wages etc.

That is really over the top, even for Edwards.