DK's "Medicare for All" plan is a universal INSURANCE plan with mandates

[cuke]

Many DUers have been saying that DK's plan is "the only health CARE plan" and that the other candidates plans are "health INSURANCE plans". This is one of the dumber arguments I have heard

Medicare does not provide health care. Just like insurance, it pays for covered services. Just like insurance, it does not pay for services that are not covered. Just like insurance, you pay a premium for Medicare. For many people, Medicare is their "Primary Insurance Provider".

Medicare is not health care. Medicare PAYS FOR health care, just like insurance

And his plan has a mandate that forces everyone to purchase govt insurance. What will Dennis do if someone doesn't pay their taxes for health care? Send them a puppy?

[maximusveritas]

1. Medicare is not for-profit

That's the obvious difference and it's a major one.

And in a single-payer system, costs would come way down, so a mandate would not be nearly as troublesome.

[cuke]

4. Non-responsive straw man

1) I did not say that Medicare was "for profit" so I'm not sure who you're disagreeing with.

2) Even with Medicare for all, the health care system is "for profit"

3) Single payer IS a mandate that forces one to buy insurance from the govt

Nothing you said refutes what I said in any way. Medicare for all is NOT health care for all, and DK's plan includes a mandate.

[crikkett]

12. Single payer mandates that everyone Receives insurance coverage and therefore access to medical care

at a rate they can afford, as opposed to being "free" to go without (only to cost the taxpayer more at the emergency room) because it's all so gawldanged expensive.

So chew on that.

[stillcool]

2. If the government pays for the 'insurance'...

how is that not the government paying for health care? Services that are not covered are 'elective'..no? I think I would rather all children be insured for a minimum of health care than absolutely none.

[cuke]

5. "Paying for insurance" means "paying for insurance"

not "paying for health care", at least according to those who say that DK's plan is the only "health CARE" plan. You will have to ask those people. I don't understand it either

[stillcool]

7. From Wiki...

Single-payer health care is an American term describing the payment for doctors, hospitals and other providers for health care from a single fund. The Canadian health care system and Medicare in the U.S. for the elderly are single-payer systems.

According to the National Library of Medicine, a "Single-Payer System" is

An approach to health care financing with only one source of money for paying health care providers. The scope may be national (the Canadian System), state-wide, or community-based. The payer may be a governmental unit or other entity such as an insurance company. The proposed advantages include administrative simplicity for patients and providers, and resulting significant savings in overhead costs. (From Slee and Slee, Health Care Reform Terms, 1993, p106) Year introduced: 1996<1>

Some writers argue that the single payer is the government,<2> but the preceding definition as well as some single-payer proponents in the U.S. leave the government's role open to interpretation.

Single payer is one alternative proposed for reforming the U.S. health care system. Proponents argue that it would provide universal coverage with at least the same quality and lower costs. Critics argue that single payer would harm quality and innovation and advocate tax code incentives<3> and free market approaches instead. <4>

The term single-payer is often used in the U.S. to distinguish systems paid from a single source with other systems of universal health care in which the government has a higher degree of control, up to and including administering hospitals and employing doctors and staff. (See socialized medicine.) Under single payer, doctors' practices and hospitals may remain private and negotiate for payments with the government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care

[cuke]

8. I don't understand the relevance of your post

The fact is that Medicare does not provide any health care. Just like insurance, it PAYS for medical care.

Your post does nothing to refute what I've been saying

[stillcool]

14. Okay...First I was not ...

attempting to 'refute' anything. I was looking for a little clarification of my own. The verbiage is what hangs me up. It appears to me that a 'single-payer-health-care-financing-provider' is payment by government... for health care provided. So..perhaps..the government program would replace the insurance company. The doctors, hospitals..etc., would negotiate payment for their services through the government agency rather than having the insurance industry dictating rates, coverage, procedures, drug usage...etc.,
Is it "insurance"? If it is a social program, is that the same kind of 'insurance'? Like social security insurance vs. a retirement fund?

[elehhhhna]

3. It is single payer, rather than mandatory "free market" hlth ins.

[cuke]

6. So then why do some people make false claims?

When the truth is available. For example, your claim that the non-DK plans are "mandatory free market health insurance" plans, is just not true

All the candidates allow individuals to buy insurance from the govt. (Clue: the govt is not a part of the "free market")

[Solon]

10. Actually, I think there is a key difference...

First off, its a Medicare EXPANSION plan, that's it, so there is, technically speaking, no "buy in" option, all tax payers will pay something into the system, whether they use it or not, through their taxes. Most of the other plans allow for a buy in option into a public system removed from Medicare, which means you have at least two, and perhaps more, public systems in place. The biggest problem I have with this is that this seems to be inefficient at the very least, and not so much a cost saving measure. The reason I advocate for a single payer system, whether its under the umbrella of Medicare, or some other program that REPLACES it, is for efficiency and cost savings purposes.

[K Gardner]

11. HR 676 - just to enhance your excellent points..

Under HR 676, all medically necessary services are covered - primary care, inpatient care, outpatient care, emergency care, prescription drugs, durable medical equipment, long-term care, mental-health services, dentistry, eye care, chiropractic and substance-abuse treatment. Patients get to choose their physicians, providers, hospitals, clinics and practices with no co-pays or deductibles, and private health insurers are prohibited from selling coverage duplicating these benefits.

Medicare's 3 percent administrative costs are far less than the for-profits' 20 percent to 30 percent. And, not surprising is opposition to HR 676 from the 20 largest HMOs ($10.8 billion in profits in 2005) or the 12 top HMO executives (combined $222.6 million in compensation).

[Solon]

13. The other cost saving measure also isn't mentioned, the size of the risk pool...

Under a single payer system, such as H.R. 676, the risk pool is expanded to every legal resident in the nation, and every resident who is employed pays something into the system. This means individual costs are reduced to the lowest levels possible. No insurance company, or any "opt in" public plan, can reduce the costs so much as a single payer system can.

[dflprincess]

9. As far as I'm concerned, any plan that includes for profit health insurance companies

and will continue to line the pockets of the William McGuires of the country has nothing to do with healthcare.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. Really, Cuke, saying the same thing over and over in dozens of posts

doesn't make it any more true.

Yes, single payer is an insurance plan. It provides health care in the sense that it makes people financially able to get the care they need. Cost is the biggest obstacle to health care access.

I suppose you'll answer with "But Medicare is an insurance plan," since that's the way you answer everything else.