Define: "triangulation" nt

[hedgehog]

[PresidentObama]

1. Hillary Clinton?

:shrug:

[goldcanyonaz]

2. Wow, and here I thought it was Obama...

[maddiejoan]

3. It's what Obama says Hillary does --

--even though he does it way more often.

[baldguy]

4. Having a position that most of the people have too.

And stating that position.

[bunnies]

5. triangulation:

noun: A method of determining the relative positions of points in space by measuring the distances, and sometimes angles, between those points and other reference points whose positions are known.

It works.

[revolve]

6. Here it is

1. a technique for establishing the distance between any two points, or the relative position of two or more points, by using such points as vertices of a triangle or series of triangles, such that each triangle has a side of known or measurable length (base or base line) that permits the size of the angles of the triangle and the length of its other two sides to be established by observations taken either upon or from the two ends of the base line.

[hedgehog]

7. Apparently, triangulation is the naughty word of the hour.

It means whatever someone wants it to mean as long as it is applied to the candidate the other guy supports.

[silverweb]

8. Depends on who you ask.

I think what we're looking for here are definitions that apply to interpersonal dynamics and/or politics.

So here we go:

Interpersonal dynamics: ...people respond to anxiety between each other by shifting the focus to a third person, triangulation. In a triangle, two are on the inside and one is on the outside. For example, rather than talk with her husband about and deal with her frustration with him, a new mother might preoccupy herself with her new child. In this case, the wife diminishes her anxiety by ignoring its source (the relationship between her and her husband); the husband is on the outside and the wife and child are on the inside.

Similarly, in the same situation, instead of talk with his wife about their marriage and deal with his frustration with her, the husband might spend more time at work instead. He would thus be making work as the inside relationship excluding his wife.

In either example, though anxiety is reduced, neither husband or wife resolve the source of their anxiety.

Politics: By extension, "triangulation" has been used to describe a perceived political strategy pursued successfully by U.S. President Bill Clinton and British Prime Minister Tony Blair (and unsuccessfully by Australian Labor leader Mark Latham). In these terms, it could be summarised as akin to the Hegelian theory of synthesis in which apparently contradictory elements of the Left and the Right are reconciled. For instance, government versus the market, rights versus responsibilities, are synthesised into a theoretically homogeneous whole. This has been branded by Blair the "Third Way" (also known as "New Labour"). In political circles, however, it has become a "fuzzword" similar to "thinking outside the square".

More explanation of different forms of triangulation and examples are _here_.

[hedgehog]

11. I like your term, "fuzzword" nt

[silverweb]

14. Wikipedia's term, not mine.

But I like it, too.

I was told once in the past that I was "triangulating" and in the context that it was said, to this day I still have no idea what the person meant. The only thing I'm sure of is that it was intended as an insult.

Use of the term as a general insult without specific explanation most certainly qualifies it as a "fuzzword."

[951-Riverside]

9. FBI Cellphone Trace n/t

[Occam Bandage]

10. Triangulation (n):

The act of forwarding a political viewpoint that differs from those supported by the speaker, or of failing to adequately support a political viewpoint supported by the speaker.

Unrelated to previous political meaning. c.f. "treason."

[hedgehog]

12. I think it originally was a fancy term for "compromise" but that now many

use it to indicate that a statement is so confusing that it can support opposite interpretations simultaneously.

[Occam Bandage]

17. Originally, its meaning was not quite one of compromise.

It was the act of presenting your positions as "above" the traditional left-right spectrum, or perhaps as between them. For instance, a fantastic example was Obama's recent speech to the 700 Club, in which he presented a defense of abortion rights that drew heavily on the concept of prayer, personal responsibility, and faith in the ability of one's fellow man (and woman) to do what was right. In doing so, he presented abortion rights as not a left-vs-right issue, but rather as a universal issue that all could support.

An alternate method of triangulation is selective omission and emphasis of aspects of a multifaceted platform. Say Hillary Clinton supports a health-care plan that offers tax breaks for purchasing mandatory health insurance. In doing so, she can refer to its universal nature to gain support among the left half of the spectrum, and can refer to its market-based nature to appeal to the right half. While speaking to an audience of liberals, she can talk about how she intends to see every American with affordable healthcare. While speaking to an audience of conservatives, she can talk about how she wants to allow the market to maximize efficiency of the system. That, too, would be triangulation.

[hedgehog]

Bingo - you've captured the two different meanings assigned to triangulation!

I'd use the term compromise for the first meaning, but I'm not sure what word captures the second.

[Occam Bandage]

29. The reason why I wouldn't call the Obama example compromise is

that he is not giving anything up. He has presented a defense of full abortion rights. A traditional compromise would be if Obama said, okay, well, I agree abortion can be bad, but I think we should have some abortions because it can be necessary, so we'll ban partial-birth abortions and make the woman have to sit through some lectures first. That would be a compromise--give some, keep some.

Here, though, he has indeed found a common ground, but his common ground is one that leads to adopting his position completely. I would call this triangulating the issue. He has "given up" rhetorical ground, but has (hopefully) led to greater support for the issue.

For comparison, the Clinton example is (these are my terms) triangulating the policy, in which she gives up some ideological ground in compromise for broader potential support of a particular policy. This also allows her to easily triangulate the issue, as she can defend a moderate proposal to a liberal or a conservative audience by adopting their terminology.

Finally, Clinton triangulates the candidate. She frequently gives up rhetorical and ideological ground in high-profile yet low-impact situations (Kyl-Lieberman, most recently), in order to portray herself as a hawkish candidate to hawkish audiences, yet still point to her generally dovish (emphasis on generally) record to dovish audiences.

Those would be, IMO, the three forms of triangulation. To recap, I propose a hierarchy that runs rhetoric-ideology-policy-candidate. Triangulation is adopting your opponent's stance on any of these, for the benefit of anything to the right of whichever category you have chosen.

[hedgehog]

31. Finding common ground vs compromising - a subtle difference

that I appreciate you pointing out.

I think your comments of triangulation are also worth thinking about.

[silverweb]

24. Best explanation of all!

You've made it clear as crystal now in both its forms.

Thank you!

[terisan]

13. Example: Guns or Butter (develop weapons or produce civilian goods/services)

Solution: Build golf courses for generals.

[silverweb]

16. Terrific example!

:D

[hedgehog]

15. At one time, was triangulation considered a good thing, something a

a savvy politician would engage in?

[silverweb]

18. I would think so.

It would seem that with diplomacy, statesmanship, and responsible compromise, people of opposing viewpoints would be able to steer a course that satisfied most of their mutual concerns.

I think it's a safe assumption that most treaties and other mutually satisfactory agreements are reached by such a form of "triangulation" -- though this word now has negative connotations and I'd prefer to use "diplomacy" and "statesmanship" for such positive applications.

[Occam Bandage]

19. Certainly. Dick Morris invented the term to explain Clinton's successful strategy

of co-opting Republican phrases and policies on the campaign trail, thus disarming his opponents. Blair successfully did as well, Bush did it also in 2000 as a "compassionate conservative."

After he got elected, Bush returned America to governing via wedge issues and hyperpartisanship.

[Buzz Clik]

20. Playing a triangle to bring on the festive spirit of the season.

[silverweb]

21. You nut!

:rofl:

[hedgehog]

22. Needs more cowbell, IMHO

[MethuenProgressive]

23. Triangulation is a poll tested word that gets a negative reaction from people who don't know...

...what it means. Speechwriters like to drop it into the slow bits.

[hedgehog]

25. There is a post describing Obama as a triangulator by which

the poster means to suggest that Obama flip flops or obscures his stands.


I believe the proper term for this style post is projection.

[MethuenProgressive]

34. That poster is using the word incorrectly -

- but like all major candidates Obama has flip flopped and does obscure his positions.

[MannyGoldstein]

26. Always Staying Slightly To The Left/Right Of Your Opponent

Triangulation is taking a position somewhat to the opposite side (e.g., somewhat to the Republican side if you're a Democrat).

Triangulation works like this: suppose you're a Democratic candidate running against a Republican. If you take a slightly right wing position, Democrats will still vote for you rather than the Republican, of course. And by being somewhat to the Right, you'll also capture the votes of right-leaning moderates.

[silverweb]

28. Very good explanation.

Your definition also explains how triangulation can be done either honestly or dishonestly, in a spirit of finding common ground or with an intent to deceive.

I understand it now and I understand why the Wikipedia author called it a "fuzzword." It sure is, as it can be easily used to accuse, confuse, and bamboozle.

Gotta run for now... thanks! :hi:

[silverweb]

27. Thanks for this thread, hedgehog.

I'd never quite understood the term "triangulation" the way it's used these days, but I'd also never taken the time to really research it and think about it in order to clarify it in my own mind.

You and the other posters here this evening have remedied that deficit in my understanding, for which I'm very appreciative.

Now dinner break's over and it's back to work! :hi:

[Zueda]

30. Wasn't the word 'Triangulation' created specifcally for Bill Clinton?

[hedgehog]

32. I think it was, originally but that it has undergone rapid evolution

and acquired several different albeit related meanings in recent months.

[Greyhound]

33. Where corporate democrats meet corporate republiks to mollify the

reich-wing.

[Azathoth]

35. Voting for Kyl-Liberman while claiming that you're doing everything in your power to stop Bush

from starting a war with Iran? :shrug:

[robcon]

36. Best definition:

Triangulation... seems to involve extracting, from each side, the most ridiculous and indefensible part of the position and saying that you are against that and a resolution ought to be achieved without it. If done well, this does not really hurt the politician doing it because the issue so rejected is so ridiculous that, exposed and standing alone, that position is not defensible in the MSM or elsewhere.