Ok, I gotta ask. What "change" is Obama truly offering, and what does "hope" have to do with it?

[Skip Intro]

Is it just a slogan? What "change" can we expect from Obama? And what are we supposed to be hoping about. Hope everything goes ok? Really, I would like to know, with some specifics.

[Progress And Change]

1. it is just an advertising angle like "compassionate conservative" was in 2000

[theredpen]

2. Hmmm... we hope he's offering change?

[maximusveritas]

3. Bullshit. You don't want to know

If you wanted to know, you could go to his website and read about his plans to help bring about change. If you wanted to know what hope had to do with it, you could go read his book.
The fact that you've been on this site throwing up attack posts against him before asking this question tells me you don't want to know.
And it's also why you'll never understand.

[Progress And Change]

4. typical. i don't expect any ObamaNation member to be able to answer the op

[earthlover]

45. typical..instead of following the advice to read up on Obama, you just flame away

Read the book for crying out loud! Then, if you don't like it, whine all you want!

But Obama HAS taken the time to spell it out. Are you literate enough or curious enough to even friggin read it?

Well, that would be ok. Not everyone is literate. And there are a lot of lazy folks out there who would rather bash first and understand later if ever.

But why would anyone have the bizzarroo idea that Obama has not spelled out his ideals? That is so wierd....so damned wierd....

[Progress And Change]

72. i read it. it is full of platititudes and little substance

And when he does offer substance it is "safe" and things most Democrats would agree on.

[earthlover]

73. It was NOT the "safe" thing at the time to oppose the IWR...Obama opposed it anyway

Hillary supported it. Because it was "safe".

So, enough of Obama. Can you name a position HIllary has taken that was not considered politically "safe" at the time? I gave one for Obama, now it is your turn.

Let's see if your candidate has done anything un-"safe"!

I won't hold my breath....

[mitchtv]

80. It's a lot safer , when

you're not voting on it. That was not unsafe
missing for Betray us ,and Iran vote- cowardly

[avrdream]

7. Maybe this would be better:

What change is he offering that other Democratic candidates aren't? (And, might I add that the other candidates appear to be offering much better versions of anything he is putting out.?)

[earthlover]

46. Well, maybe, since you have said others do better, YOU could spell things out?

Very vague

[Egnever]

48. What other candidates are putting forth anything even close to this?

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/technology /

This stuff is revolutionary and I dont think theres another candidate proposing anything like it.I am not in Obamas camp yet but if he did just this he would change America forever.


2. Create a Transparent and Connected Democracy

Open Up Government to its Citizens:
The Bush Administration has been one of the most secretive, closed administrations in American history. Our nation's progress has been stifled by a system corrupted by millions of lobbying dollars contributed to political campaigns, the revolving door between government and industry, and privileged access to inside information-all of which have led to policies that favor the few against the public interest. An Obama presidency will use cutting-edge technologies to reverse this dynamic, creating a new level of transparency, accountability and participation for America's citizens. Technology-enabled citizen participation has already produced ideas driving Obama's campaign and its vision for how technology can help connect government to its citizens and engage citizens in a democracy.

Barack Obama will use the most current technological tools available to make government less beholden to special interest groups and lobbyists and promote citizen participation in government decision-making. Obama will integrate citizens into the actual business of government by:

Making government data available online in universally accessible formats to allow citizens to make use of that data to comment, derive value, and take action in their own communities. Greater access to environmental data, for example, will help citizens learn about pollution in their communities, provide information about local conditions back to government and empower people to protect themselves.

Establishing pilot programs to open up government decision-making and involve the public in the work of agencies, not simply by soliciting opinions, but by tapping into the vast and distributed expertise of the American citizenry to help government make more informed decisions.

Requiring his appointees who lead Executive Branch departments and rulemaking agencies to conduct the significant business of the agency in public, so that any citizen can watch a live feed on the Internet as the agencies debate and deliberate the issues that affect American society. He will ensure that these proceedings are archived for all Americans to review, discuss and respond. He will require his appointees to employ all the technological tools available to allow citizens not just to observe, but also to participate and be heard in these meetings.

Restoring the basic principle that government decisions should be based on the best-available, scientifically-valid evidence and not on the ideological predispositions of agency officials.
Lifting the veil from secret deals in Washington with a web site, a search engine, and other web tools that enable citizens easily to track online federal grants, contracts, earmarks, and lobbyist contacts with government officials.

Giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days before signing any non-emergency legislation.
Bringing democracy and policy deliberations directly to the people by requiring his Cabinet officials to have periodic national online town hall meetings to answer questions and discuss issues before their agencies.

Employing technologies, including blogs, wikis and social networking tools, to modernize internal, cross-agency, and public communication and information sharing to improve government decision-making.


Bring Government into the 21st Century: Barack Obama will use technology to reform government and improve the exchange of information between the federal government and citizens while ensuring the security of our networks. Obama believes in the American people and in their intelligence, expertise, and ability and willingness to give and to give back to make government work better.

Obama will appoint the nation's first Chief Technology Officer (CTO) to ensure that our government and all its agencies have the right infrastructure, policies and services for the 21st century. The CTO will ensure the safety of our networks and will lead an interagency effort, working with chief technology and chief information officers of each of the federal agencies, to ensure that they use best-in-class technologies and share best practices.

The CTO will have a specific focus on transparency, by ensuring that each arm of the federal government makes its records open and accessible as the E-Government Act requires. The CTO will also focus on using new technologies to solicit and receive information back from citizens to improve the functioning of democratic government.

The CTO will also ensure technological interoperability of key government functions. For example, the Chief Technology Officer will oversee the development of a national, interoperable wireless network for local, state and federal first responders as the 9/11 commission recommended. This will ensure that fire officials, police officers and EMTs from different jurisdictions have the ability to communicate with each other during a crisis and we do not have a repeat of the failure to deliver critical public services that occurred in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

In the 21st century, our economic success will depend not only on economic analysis but also on technological sophistication and direct experience in this powerful engine of our economy. In an Obama administration, the government's economic policy-making organizations and councils will include individuals with backgrounds in our technology industry.

[Skip Intro]

9. You said all that instead of answering the question.

That says a lot.

[jefferson_dem]

20. Obviously, the OP's query is not sincere.

The OP either hasn't been paying attention or rejects Obama's message on its face.

That's fine. I don't "hate the playa." I do, however, "hate the game."

[Skip Intro]

24. Well, I actually am sincere, and it was a sincere question.

The avoidance in answering it has really struck me.

[Progress And Change]

27. this is the only place you can get the answer

[Beacool]

78. Thank you, I hadn't seen that one before and I'm still laughing!!! n/t

[cuke]

88. LOL!

Pretty much sums it up

[earthlover]

47. read the book if you wish...that will answer your questions..

[sandnsea]

5. Ignore

See all of you Hillarybots next year.

[Progress And Change]

6. this is what happens when an ObamaNation member has to defend his "hope" in Obama

[Skip Intro]

13. This is hillarious. Sheesh. The slogan gets thrown around like no tomorrow, you ask what it means,

and people come unglued.

Go figure.

[Progress And Change]

17. obviously they are not supporting him based on substance...

[wiggle-room]

22. Isn't that kinda like creating your own dreamworld where only what you want to hear exists?

:shrug:

[goodgd_yall]

81. Did not get a chance to say:

Welcome, wiggle-room!:hi:

Agree with you by the way. I've been reading about DUers putting quite a few people on "Ignore." I've never done it; I want to hear all points of view for my edification.

[aquart]

26. Fine, you get Obama.

Then he wins because the Dem is going to win. If we count the votes.

I wanna be around when it turns out he ain't the messiah.

You calling anyone a "bot" with a straight face? LOL!

[journalist3072]

8. That's exactly what I keep asking about Obama

I'm tired of this overly broad "politics of hope." I'm going to need more than "politics of hope" to get me into the voting booth to vote for you. I need substance.

"Politics of hope" isn't going to help me put food on my table, or pay my bills.

It must have been Obama's "politics of hope" that caused him to confirm Condi Rice as SoS. Perhaps he was a little too "hopeful" that she understood the job of SoS was to be our nation's diplomat, not beating the drums of war.

It must have been Obama's "politics of hope" that made him not want to be on record, as to whether or not the Senate should hold a no-confidence vote against Alberto Gonzalez. Perhaps he was "hopeful" that not too many people would notice, he doesn't even bother to show up for many Senate votes.

Obama gave one good speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention, and he thinks he's presidential material?

[jefferson_dem]

12. One good speech, huh.

Sorry. "I feel your pain."

[Progress And Change]

14. \ObamaNation members can't defend their "feelings" and "hope" that he is what they want him to be...

[journalist3072]

19. Exactly. I get the feeling many of them don't even know WHY they support him.

They can't articulate or verbalize it in specific terms.

[Progress And Change]

21. yep, and oprah's speech today is a prime example of this...

[journalist3072]

29. Precisely! I wonder if she even knows why she's supporting him.

"America needs Barack Obama" is what she said today.

OK...and if I was interviewing Oprah Winfrey, and she said that, my obvious follow-up would have been "Why? Please explain why it is, that you think America needs him."

[journalist3072]

18. Yep, I said it....he gave one good speech at the DNC

And admittedly, I got caught up in the Obama hype for a minute. I even typed out "the audacity of hope" and had it above my desk for a while....I admit, his DNC speech was great.

But Obama became a huge disappointment for me after he got to the Senate (i.e. his vote for Condi Rice).

[BeyondGeography]

10. Who's Obama?

[msongs]

11. he hopes he wins the presidency? nt

[pstans]

15. I hope that Obama starts taking strong stands on the issues

I like Obama and knew after the 2004 DNC speech that he would someday be President. However, I have been underwhelmed by the amount of calculation and the baby steps he has taken on the issues. The hope in his campaign for me is that he starts taking strong stands on the issues because the Republicans do just that and won't compromise.

PS. I am not an Obama hater. I am an undecided Iowa voter, whose wife is an Obama precint captain. I have seen Obama 7 times campaigning, as well as all of the others.

[Maven]

16. They're magic words that make the sun shine for an hour longer each day.

That's all you need to know.

[hedgehog]

23. I haven't read the books. I haven't gone over his Web site line by line

nor have I read his every speech. I even missed the famous key note speech at the Democratic Convention. But when I listen to Obama, I hear someone who hasn't given up on the American experiment. For example, he promises to address the violence in the black community that is tearing apart so many cities. He will bring government programs to bear and confront each person to take responsibility. I haven't heard anyone willing to address this problem in years. I think too many politicians have been willing to throw the poor under a bus.

There are other areas. Obama wants the agriculture department to assist farmers to convert to organic methods. He wants to cut farm subsidies to large corporations and force feed lots to clean up their messes. He wants to make college affordable, and use the student loan program to assist students, not serve as a cash cow for banks. These are specific areas I agree with him on, but they are also signs of what is important to him.

You ask me to explain, and I have to admit that a lot of my trust is based on intangibles. I have read over and over here on DU that all Obama does is deliver nice speeches. Ronald Reagen debased the notion of speech making because of his lies. On the other hand, Lincoln, Roosevelt and Kennedy all turned the tide with their speeches. Governing is more than submitting detailed bills to Congress. It's also a matter of the people you bring with you to the Executive branch and the tone you set for the nation.


You ask about Hope? I don't know if Obama has the solutions to the problems we face, but I know he will never stop trying to fix them.

[Skip Intro]

32. Thanks.

For an honest answer.

[JDPriestly]

40. It is good to read your reasons for supporting Obama.

I happen to be an Edwards supporter. I made my choice based on specific considerations. It is very interesting to know what aspects of a candidate's platform appeal to his or her supporters. That helps me think about the candidates more favorably. People are not out of place to ask why you support your candidate. It is important to think these things through, and you can help other people think them through when you make great statements like the post I am answering. Thanks.

[babylonsister]

44. And because of people like you, I love DU. It is the silly season, so to

find some light in the weirdness is encouraging!

[Think82]

25. Every candidate wants "change". It's ideas that matter and the ability to get things done. BIDEN 08!

[babylonsister]

28. The change Obama will make compared to the current criminal

is obvious to me, and all the Dems fit into that category. The hope? It's an intangible. I like and trust Senator Barack Obama, and don't think he'd squander that trust. He seems as anxious for change as we all are.

He offers hope because he's smart and a new face on the scene; I trust his ability to use diplomacy with other countries, and to hire a good staff to aid him. I think 'hiring' a black man would be a great thing for our country. I've also read from people who've traveled that there is a lot of interest in Obama outside the US. He's got the personality to charm people, just as Bill Clinton did imo. He also has the smarts and will learn as he goes, just as anyone ever elected to be president must (current moran excluded). I'm sure other countries figure the US isn't capable of thinking outside the box. But if we don't start now, when will we? And I don't accept the idea that, because he's black, he'd never be elected. Wasn't that also said about Catholics?

After the past 7 years, I need to have some faith in someone, not the tired old faces and names that seem to have been around forever.

Now you asked; I'm not inviting criticism for my opinions, though I'll just bet that's where this goes.

[Progress And Change]

30. none of that is about policy, though

I think that is the problem many of us have with Obama supporters. There is a lot of hype but it is not based on his record or policies. I still respect you for going out on a limb and explaining yourself. I am not attacking you but using you, due to a lack of other examples in this thread, to illustrate the larger point about Obama.

[babylonsister]

31. 'Hope', to me, isn't about policy. It's a feeling, and I get it from him. And

thank you for your civil post. I don't get it from Senator Clinton, and that's one reason I can't support her.

The war is a biggie for me. I want it over yesterday. I like most of the Dems and will vote for any of them before one of those rethugs, but I have to tell you, Clinton is my least favorite, and her voting record regarding war or potential war doesn't impress me.

[JDPriestly]

39. Thanks for talking about what you like about the candidate you have decided to support.

[babylonsister]

43. Am I wrong? Look at the original question. That's what I was

responding to. What else was I supposed to talk about?

[terrya]

33. For GLBT people, not a damned thing.

Get ready to be pushed under the bus again in an Obama administration.

[Bluebear]

41. That's not fair. You can "embrace the change" alright.

Just ask the "ex-gays" that Obama hires to headline his events.

[chaumont58]

34. What the US needs, after 8 years of chimpie, is competence

More James Lee Witts and fewer Michael Browns.

[BootinUp]

37. How true. nt

[izzybeans]

35. About as much as "I feel 'ur pain" or "Me's got the experiunce' 'cause I'm rich and been there""

[Armstead]

36. I wonder the same thing

I find Obama inspirational on a gut level.

However, when it gets to specifics, I sometimes have to ask "Where's the Beef?"

And sometimes his behavior or positions seem to be a letdown. For example, he seems to make sense on foreign policy, but then he falls back into the same "tougher than thou" malarky that many other politicians do.

[Gloria]

38. I've tabbed him as the "triangulator in training" --

I see more bipartisan mush and GOP talking points than I like...

[Egnever]

42. Theres a mound of change in just his tech policy alone

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/technology/

This stuff is revolutionary and I dont think theres another candidate proposing anything like it.I am not in Obamas camp yet but if he did just this he would change America forever.


2. Create a Transparent and Connected Democracy

Open Up Government to its Citizens:
The Bush Administration has been one of the most secretive, closed administrations in American history. Our nation's progress has been stifled by a system corrupted by millions of lobbying dollars contributed to political campaigns, the revolving door between government and industry, and privileged access to inside information-all of which have led to policies that favor the few against the public interest. An Obama presidency will use cutting-edge technologies to reverse this dynamic, creating a new level of transparency, accountability and participation for America's citizens. Technology-enabled citizen participation has already produced ideas driving Obama's campaign and its vision for how technology can help connect government to its citizens and engage citizens in a democracy.

Barack Obama will use the most current technological tools available to make government less beholden to special interest groups and lobbyists and promote citizen participation in government decision-making. Obama will integrate citizens into the actual business of government by:

Making government data available online in universally accessible formats to allow citizens to make use of that data to comment, derive value, and take action in their own communities. Greater access to environmental data, for example, will help citizens learn about pollution in their communities, provide information about local conditions back to government and empower people to protect themselves.

Establishing pilot programs to open up government decision-making and involve the public in the work of agencies, not simply by soliciting opinions, but by tapping into the vast and distributed expertise of the American citizenry to help government make more informed decisions.

Requiring his appointees who lead Executive Branch departments and rulemaking agencies to conduct the significant business of the agency in public, so that any citizen can watch a live feed on the Internet as the agencies debate and deliberate the issues that affect American society. He will ensure that these proceedings are archived for all Americans to review, discuss and respond. He will require his appointees to employ all the technological tools available to allow citizens not just to observe, but also to participate and be heard in these meetings.

Restoring the basic principle that government decisions should be based on the best-available, scientifically-valid evidence and not on the ideological predispositions of agency officials.
Lifting the veil from secret deals in Washington with a web site, a search engine, and other web tools that enable citizens easily to track online federal grants, contracts, earmarks, and lobbyist contacts with government officials.

Giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days before signing any non-emergency legislation.
Bringing democracy and policy deliberations directly to the people by requiring his Cabinet officials to have periodic national online town hall meetings to answer questions and discuss issues before their agencies.

Employing technologies, including blogs, wikis and social networking tools, to modernize internal, cross-agency, and public communication and information sharing to improve government decision-making.


Bring Government into the 21st Century: Barack Obama will use technology to reform government and improve the exchange of information between the federal government and citizens while ensuring the security of our networks. Obama believes in the American people and in their intelligence, expertise, and ability and willingness to give and to give back to make government work better.

Obama will appoint the nation's first Chief Technology Officer (CTO) to ensure that our government and all its agencies have the right infrastructure, policies and services for the 21st century. The CTO will ensure the safety of our networks and will lead an interagency effort, working with chief technology and chief information officers of each of the federal agencies, to ensure that they use best-in-class technologies and share best practices.

The CTO will have a specific focus on transparency, by ensuring that each arm of the federal government makes its records open and accessible as the E-Government Act requires. The CTO will also focus on using new technologies to solicit and receive information back from citizens to improve the functioning of democratic government.

The CTO will also ensure technological interoperability of key government functions. For example, the Chief Technology Officer will oversee the development of a national, interoperable wireless network for local, state and federal first responders as the 9/11 commission recommended. This will ensure that fire officials, police officers and EMTs from different jurisdictions have the ability to communicate with each other during a crisis and we do not have a repeat of the failure to deliver critical public services that occurred in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

In the 21st century, our economic success will depend not only on economic analysis but also on technological sophistication and direct experience in this powerful engine of our economy. In an Obama administration, the government's economic policy-making organizations and councils will include individuals with backgrounds in our technology industry.

[Imagevision]

49. Obama said today; "stand up for him and he'll stand up for you, I believe him, but only him...!

[LeftCoast]

50. Well, I'm gay. Somehow I doubt he'll be as rock-steady in his support of me.

Not like that's unusual among the top candidates, but still...

[Egnever]

51. You base this solely

on the Mclurkin appearance I assume?

Or is there actually something in his public voting record that makes you feel this way?

[LeftCoast]

52. Pretty much

It gave me quite a bit of insight into exactly where he stands on the issue.

[Egnever]

54. So you dismiss his entire voting record

Based on an entertainer he hired for an event. If thats as deep as your curiosity goes about our candidates and who should/would represent you in office then you resemble a sheeple.

I can understand being upset with his choice of performers but dismissing his entire voting record on gay rights issues because you don't like some entertainer at one of the events is well...lame


Q: You had one supporter on a Bible tour in South Carolina who said that homosexuality was a curse and that he had been cured by prayer. Do you believe homosexuality's a curse?
A: No.

Q: Do you believe that it is something that you are born gay or that you can change your behavior?

A: I do not believe being gay or lesbian is a choice. And so I disagree with . But part of what I hope to offer as president is the ability to reach to people that I don't agree with, and the evangelical community is one where the Democratic Party, I think, we have generally seen as hostile. We haven't been reaching out to them, and I think that if we're going to makes significant progress on critical issues that we face, we've got to be able to get beyond our comfort zones and just talk to people we don't like. I've tried to do is to reach out to the evangelical community and tell them very clearly where I disagree.


Q: Last year some parents of second graders in Lexington, Massachusetts, were outraged to learn their children's teacher had read a story about same-sex marriage, about a prince who marries another prince. Would you be comfortable having this story read to your children as part of their school curriculum?

A: My 9-year-old and my 6-year-old are already aware that there are same-sex couples. And my wife and I have talked about it. And one of the things I want to communicate to my children is not to be afraid of people who are different, and because there have been times in our history where I was considered different. And one of the things I think the next president has to do is to stop fanning people's fears.

Q: Have you sat down with your daughters to talk about same-sex marriage?

A: My wife has.


The notion of gay marriage has been used to divide people in black churches. I pointed out that if there's any pastor here who can point out a marriage that has been broken up as a consequence of seeing two men or two women holding hands, then you should tell me, because I haven't seen any evidence of it. And if you think that issue is more important to the black family than the fact that black men don't have any jobs and are struggling in the inner cities, then I profoundly disagree with you.
Source: 2007 HRC/LOGO debate on gay issues Aug 9, 2007

Marriage not a human right; non-discrimination is

Q: Do you think marriage is a human right?
A: I don't think marriage is a civil right, but I think that not being discriminated against is a civil right. I think making sure that we don't engage in the sort of gay-bashing that, I think, has unfortunately dominated this campaign-not just here in Illinois, but across the country-is unfortunate, and that kind of mean-spirited attacks on homosexuals is something that the people of Illinois generally have rejected.

Source: IL Senate Debate Oct 26, 2004



http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-3670.html

Before he has even officially declared his intention to run for President, Barack Obama is under attack for his pro-gay views.


If he were to become President of the United States Sen. Obama's support of homosexual unions would pose a real health threat to African Americans."

Obama has never hidden his pro-choice views, and has directly challenged the literal interpretation of the Bible that fundamentalist Christians use to justify homophobia.

"I am not willing to have the state deny American citizens a civil union that confers equivalent rights on such basic matters as hospital visitation or health insurance coverage simply because the people they love are of the same sex," Obama wrote.

"Nor am I willing to accept a reading of the Bible that considers an obscure line in Romans to be more defining of Christianity than the Sermon on the Mount."

Many LGBT Americans are unhappy that the former First Lady and other Senate Democrats have not responded in a visible and assertive way to attacks against gay marriage and other gay rights efforts by conservative Republicans and religious advocacy groups.

In contrast, Obama has been unafraid to make the case for fair treatment for gay people. He is is pro-choice, favours civil unions for lesbian and gay couples and supports universal health care.

http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=4018

As an African-American man, a child of an interracial marriage, a committed scholar, attorney and activist who works to protect the Bill of Rights, I am sensitive to the struggle for civil rights. As a state Senator, I have taken on the issue of civil rights for the LGBT community as if they were my own struggle because I believe strongly that the infringement of rights for any one group eventually endangers the rights enjoyed under law by the entire population. Since 1996, I have been the sponsor or a chief co-sponsor of measures to expand civil liberties for the LGBT community including hate-crimes legislation, adoption rights and the extension of basic civil rights to protect LGBT persons from discrimination in housing, public accommodations, employment and credit.

Today, I am a candidate for the U.S. Senate. Unlike any of my opponents, I have a legislative track record. No one has to guess about what I will do in Washington. My record makes it very clear. I will be an unapologetic voice for civil rights in the U.S. Senate.

For the record, I opposed DOMA in 1996. It should be repealed and I will vote for its repeal on the Senate floor. I will also oppose any proposal to amend the U.S. Constitution to ban gays and lesbians from marrying. This is an effort to demonize people for political advantage, and should be resisted ... .

When Members of Congress passed DOMA, they were not interested in strengthening family values or protecting civil liberties. They were only interested in perpetuating division and affirming a wedge issue. ...

Despite my own feelings about an abhorrent law, the realities of modern politics persist. While the repeal of DOMA is essential, the unfortunate truth is that it is unlikely with Mr. Bush in the White House and Republicans in control of both chambers of Congress. ...

We must be careful to keep our eyes on the prize—equal rights for every American. We must continue to fight for the Employment Non-Discrimination Act. We must vigorously expand hate-crime legislation and be vigilant about how these laws are enforced. We must continue to expand adoption rights to make them consistent and seamless throughout all 50 states, and we must repeal the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” military policy.


It goes on and on and on and on. You are letting one performance outweigh years of fighting for gay rights.

[LeftCoast]

55. You're reading things in my post that I did not write

And you went to a lot of trouble to rebut them.

Post #49 - Imagevision states that he believes Obama (but only Obama!) when he says that he'll stand up for people.

Post #50 - I come out to those few people on the net who don't know I'm gay and say that I don't have quite as much confidence of that.

Now where in that exchange did I dismiss Obama's entire record?

[Egnever]

57. Post 52

I specifically asked you in the post preceding that one if you based that solely on the mclurkin thing and your answer was pretty much. Then went on to say how it gave you insight into exactly where he stands on the issue.

So now you are sating that despite years of standing up for gay rights its all phony cause he allowed mclurkin on stage?

All I am doing is trying to point out how weak that is.

It's not my issue I am not gay. I do however want to see gays treated equally. Obama isnt my candidate either but I am leaning toward him as the anti Hillary choice as I have serious reservations about her being our president for 8 years.

Your post made me go look again at Obamas gay rights record. As you can see theres a whole lot of good there that far outweighs, in my mind at least, any appearance by some singer at a campaign event.

You apparently feel otherwise and are willing to throw out an entire career promoting gay rights issues because some guy at a campaign event offends you.

Like I said its not my issue but apparently its yours. One would think you would refrain from bashing someone that seems to have fought pretty hard for your issue instead of attacking him with weak one liners. Years of fighting for you get thrown out the window over a singer at one event :roll:

[LeftCoast]

58. Again, I never said I dismissed his entire record

I simply do not feel as confident in his support. I don't think he's a homophobe or a bad person, but I do think that his handling of the dingbat Donnie scandal showed he doesn't quite get it. If he didn't 'get it' then, I have less confidence that he'll 'get it' next time. See?

[Egnever]

60. Nope I don't see

his record and statements for years are firmly supportive of gay rights including statements made about the concert.

I think his handling of the mclurkin thing shows just the opposite. That he absolutely does get it. He wasn't trying to get gays to vote for him with that event he was trying to bring entice the southern Gospel crowd to come listen to what he had to say by putting a singer onstage that they love.

What he gets is that you cant start a dialog with people by telling them the lings they like suck and if he had canceled mclurkin after the bruhaha started thats exactly what he would be telling them.

His objective is to get into office. To do that he needs to get as many people as he can to listen to what he has to say. He is doing the same thing with Oprah. I am sure he doesn't agree with her on everything but she is a huge draw to get people in to hear his positions. Its smart politics.

I am sorry that you cant see how getting people to listen to him and quite possibly vote him into office advances your cause based on his record of voting for and speaking out on gay rights issues including sponsoring and cosponsoring legislation while in the illinois senate.

Hes not gay and like most straight people he cant relate completely to gay issues but the guy has worked hard for equal rights for the GLBT community despite that fact.

If your looking for purity your only hope is dennis and thats no hope at all.

All I am saying here is before you judge people based on the appearance of an entertainer at an event you might want to look a little closer at their track record.

Hell he is the only candidate that has said he will work to enact civil unions immediately when he gets into office that I am aware of. That by itself should blow away any appearance by some confused performer at an event.

[terisan]

65. Sounds like you have fallen deeply in love. I fear many Americans not ready for Democracy.

[maxanne]

67. McLurkin should NEVER

have been allowed on that stage. EVER.

Obama revealed his naivete and lack of experience in the way he handled that whole thing. He's a good potential future president in training, but he
isn't ready now.

[Progress And Change]

70. Nixon had a better record on civil rights in 1968 than Obama has on GLBT rights...

...yet that did not stop Nixon from using bigotry for political gain. If Obama wins we cannot seriously criticize Republicans for using GLBT bashing, or racism, for political gain since the man heading our ticket did it himself.

[NMMNG]

59. Not when there are votes to be had

We're far too disposable when he can have the bigot vote instead.

[LeftCoast]

61. I think he was trying for a Sister Souljah moment

[NMMNG]

62. He may have been

But I, like many, didn't buy it.

[LeftCoast]

63. I'm with you Buffy

I didn't buy it either.

[maxanne]

66. aw c'mon

You'll get separate but equal. You aren't good enough to be married, but you'll get civil unions. sheesh! Whaddaya want - equality or somethin?

[Maven]

56. One would think you were speaking about a deity, and not a candidate for president

It's a little unsettling.

[goodgd_yall]

83. That's what I detect in many supporters

of Obama. It's downright dangerous to get on board for ANY candidate so emphatically that one loses the ability to be open to criticism.

[Tellurian]

84. Who is him? nm

[ArkySue]

53. Hope ain't nuthin'

but a small town in Arkansas.

“Success is 10 percent inspiration and 90 percent perspiration.” ~ Thomas Alva Edison

[Hippo_Tron]

64. FDR didn't give too many specifics about what he was going to do in office

And he turned out to be pretty good.

[terisan]

68. FDR had solid executive experience behind him. Obama has none.

I would not compare most of the current candidates to FDR, and especially not Obama.

I suspect that the reason Kucinich gets ignored by many is that there is a great difference between pointing out the way and being able to get the job done in a system like ours.

I think Obama can fire up an audience, but I don't think he can get the job done as President in a convoluted, corrupted government like ours.

Personally, should he become president, I think he will falter, become rigid in his approaches, cave in to big business interests, and be all too willing to toss women and gays over the side.

Whomever is president will be immediately courted by the powerful-even if they ran against the powerful in their campaigns. The president will receive the carrot and stick approach. Only the Harry Truman types survive with their scruples intact-they are the ones willing to forego the second term.

[MethuenProgressive]

69. Just that Donnie McClurkin will finally make it onto the Presidental iPod,

But Bush's Presdientuality for Dummies will remain in the Oval Office bathroom's magazine rack.

[zulchzulu]

71. I'll take Obama's message of real "change" over Clinton's retreaded "change"

Go to his web site and see for yourself.

www.barackobama.com

[forsberg]

74. It reminds me of Mr. Burns book

The Audacity of Hope = Will there ever be a Rainbow

[IndianaGreen]

75. The "change" is that we break the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton dynastic rule

The "hope" is that we won't have to fear being embarrassed by a serial philanderer and groper in the White House.

If you want real radical change, vote for Kucinich.

If you want moderate but significant change, vote for Edwards.

If you want the most experienced and competent President, vote for Joe Biden.

If you want more of the same police state and wars of the Bush regime, vote for Hillary.

[Progress And Change]

82. so the difference is his name isn't clinton and he will keep his "clenis" where it belongs?

That is not exactly meaningful change. ;)

[IndianaGreen]

85. Bill Clinton is still dipping his wick in forbidden waters

David Geffen said that his former pal Bill Clinton is still engaged in risky behaviour.

I sure don't want to risk the election on Bill Clinton being a good boy when he hasn't been so far.

[cuke]

89. Well, you don't have to worry about Ron Paul's penis. It doesnt even have nickname

How dangerous could Paul's wang be?

[CyberPieHole]

90. And David Geffen is an "Oracle" now?

There are rumors going around about infidelity in at least a 3 of the campaigns. Should we give credence to them all? Or do we just pick and choose the one that suits us?:eyes:

[laureloak]

76. HOPE and CHANGE sound like words from Edwards.

Oh, so that's where Obama gets his ideas from.

[forsberg]

87. pretty much, he's trying to be the black Edwards

[CyberPieHole]

77. "Change" for him. And he "Hope(s)" he can do it...

I don't think he cares a whit about anyone other than himself.

[mitchtv]

79. More Nuclear

he seems to be a fan, though lately he qualifies it
I don't trust him.

[question everything]

86. See his recent WSJ op-ed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x325377

(and I have to wonder how many Obama supporters have dismissed stories from the WSJ because... they were published there..)

[acmavm]

91. No change and he hopes everyone is too stupid to notice.