Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Talkingpointsmemo: Robert Reich "takes Hillary to the woodshed" for her attacks on Obama

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:04 PM
Original message
Talkingpointsmemo: Robert Reich "takes Hillary to the woodshed" for her attacks on Obama
Why is HRC stooping So Low?
Monday, December 03, 2007

I’m becoming increasingly concerned about the stridency and inaccuracy of charges in Iowa -- especially coming from my old friend. While I’m as hard-boiled as they come about what’s said in campaigns, I just don’t think Dems should stoop to this. First, HRC attacked O's plan for keep Social Security solvent. Social Security doesn’t need a whole lot to keep it going – it’s in far better shape than Medicare – but everyone who’s looked at it agrees it will need bolstering (I was a trustee of the Social Security Trust Fund ten years ago, and I can vouch for this). Obama wants to do it by lifting the cap on the percent of income subject to Social Security payroll taxes, which strikes me as sensible. That cap is now close to $98,000 (it’s indexed), and the result is highly regressive. (Bill Gates satisfies his yearly Social Security obligations a few minutes past midnight on January 1 every year.) The cap doesn’t have to be lifted all that much to keep Social Security solvent – maybe to $115,00. That’s a progressive solution to the problem. HRC wants to refer Social Security to a commission. That's avoiding the issue, and it's irresponsible: A commission will likely call either for raising the retirement age (that’s what Greenspan’s Social Security commission came up with in the 1980s) or increasing the payroll tax on all Americans. So when HRC charges that Obama’s plan would “raise taxes” and her plan wouldn’t, she’s simply not telling the truth.

I’m equally concerned about her attack on his health care plan. She says his would insure fewer people than hers. I’ve compared the two plans in detail. Both of them are big advances over what we have now. But in my view Obama’s would insure more people, not fewer, than HRC’s. That’s because Obama’s puts more money up front and contains sufficient subsidies to insure everyone who’s likely to need help – including all children and young adults up to 25 years old. Hers requires that everyone insure themselves. Yet we know from experience with mandated auto insurance – and we’re learning from what’s happening in Massachusetts where health insurance is now being mandated – that mandates still leave out a lot of people at the lower end who can’t afford to insure themselves even when they’re required to do so. HRC doesn’t indicate how she’d enforce her mandate, and I can’t find enough money in HRC’s plan to help all those who won’t be able to afford to buy it. I’m also impressed by the up-front investments in information technology in O’s plan, and the reinsurance mechanism for coping with the costs of catastrophic illness. HRC is far less specific on both counts. In short: They’re both advances, but O’s is the better of the two. HRC has no grounds for alleging that O’s would leave out 15 million people.

Yesterday, HRC suggested O lacks courage. "There's a big difference between our courage and our convictions, what we believe and what we're willing to fight for," she told reporters in Iowa, saying Iowa voters will have a choice "between someone who talks the talk, and somebody who's walked the walk." Then asked whether she intended to raise questions about O’s character, she said: "It's beginning to look a lot like that."

I just don’t get it. If there’s anyone in the race whose history shows unique courage and character, it's Barack Obama. HRC’s campaign, by contrast, is singularly lacking in conviction about anything. Her pollster, Mark Penn, has advised her to take no bold positions and continuously seek the political center, which is exactly what she’s been doing.

All is fair in love, war, and politics. But this series of slurs doesn't serve HRC well. It will turn off voters in Iowa, as in the rest of the country. If she's worried her polls are dropping, this is not the way to build them back up.

http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2007/12/why-is-hrc-stooping-so-low.html

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/060121.php
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kick-er-amma!
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Double kick!
:kick: :kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. I like how he calls Obama just O
it would be cool to have President O.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maccagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. I love that man
His book "Locked In the Cabinet" is one of the wisest, funniest political tomes ever. Hillary, do yourself a favor and listen to this guy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. " she’s simply not telling the truth"
Says it all for me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. Reich makes Hilly feel the fierce urgency of ouch
Uh-huh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Maybe Reich and Krugman can duke it out...
On WWE Smackdown...


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. They'd have to create a new bearded girly men division
But I'd watch.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Well after Doink the clown and the gobbledy gooker...
Anything is possible!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. will you
address any of his points?

:shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. I wholeheartedly disagree with them....
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 02:38 PM by SaveElmer
I doubt a sober discussion of the relative merits of the plans would be possible here..but I believe that Reich is wrong that not enfocing mandated coverage would result in lowered costs...there would be no incentive for insurance compenies to participate in such a plan...

I also find his arrogance fairly astounding...acusing Hillary of lying because she does not agree with Reich's interpretation of Obama's plan. He seems to be implying his analysis is truth, and all others are not...

And I am disappointed that someone who claims to be upset at the alleged falsehoods he talks about...doesn't seem to be concerned by the mudslinging and falshoods coming from the Obama campaign...

My guess is there is something behind the scenes here we aren't privy too...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I wouldn't be surprised to see a counter argument
from Krugman. Reich doesn't even seem to acknowledge there is a difference of opinion between experts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. He is right on all points. nm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. a choice "between someone who talks the talk, and somebody who's walked the walk."
Yeah, that's a terrible thing for her to say. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thank you Robert Reich!
I'm sending this on to my best friend, who is a friend of Reich's. She'll just love it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. Ooh, a battle of the experts
Cool :)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cloudythescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. Reich or s/o should have a NY Times op-ed to counter Krugman
As I just posted on Reich's blog (but, as with other sites, can't get my computer to update to NOW so I can read access my own comment & responses), he or someone similarly qualified should respond to that nasty column by Krugman Nov 30 claiming that Obama, by having the impudence to insist that his plan was better, WITHOUT mandatory adult insurance, was 'mudslinging'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
17. Excellent
Now maybe the Obama campaign will stop saying their plans are essentially the same. They aren't. The details matter to the people who actually have to put the money out for the plans. I'm glad someone with Robert Reich's stature has laid all of this out. He's exactly right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Yes, thank you Robert Reich! Would like to see this in an op-ed in the Des Moines Register.
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 07:55 PM by flpoljunkie
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. Well, when Obama himself admitted 15 million people would
be left out of his plan...I'd say she has a basis for attacking him--go back to the Vegas debate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. He did no such thing. The 15 million number is a fallacy with no factual data backing it up.
:nopity:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. That's what I'm talking about!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R
Pure dynamite.

:kick:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bagimin Donating Member (945 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
24. Wow.".Love That Bob"
I thought he would never dis Hill, hoping for a spot in her administration and all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Doesn't Robert Reich tend
to speak what he thinks and let the chips fall where they may? That's been my sense.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
25. So what does hillary
want to do with our Social Security? hillary walk the walk? Give me a fookin' break. Is that the walk where you focus on enabling bushits because you think that's what America will be looking at when it's your time to run for pres? She's got a lot of corporate money and mediawhores behind her but will that translate into votes from The People(acting like our votes count here).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
27. Eat your hat, Krugman!
Edited on Tue Dec-04-07 01:03 AM by ellisonz
}(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
28. Thanks I posted this not realizing it was already up!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC