PPI says Democrats should allow immunity for telecoms. I say baloney.

[madfloridian]

This is the sister site of the DLC which according to Harold Ford is the "policy shop" for the Democratic nominee.

This is exactly against everything the netroots, the bloggers, and grassroots have been pushing and working for so hard lately.

This Democratic think tank is actually pushing the party to let the telecoms off the hook.

Restoring a Proper Balance on Surveillance

Over the last six years, the Bush administration has failed to strike a reasonable balance between Americans' right to privacy and the post-9/11 demands of national security. The predictable result has been cratering public confidence in a key part of the president's "war on terror" -- new domestic surveillance programs enshrined in the Big Brother-esque Protect America Act.

Last week, Congressional Democrats took major strides toward legislation that would overturn that act and correct both these problems. The House passed the RESTORE Act ("RESTORE" is an acronym for "Responsible Surveillance That is Overseen, Reviewed and Effective"), and Senate Democrats debated which of two committee-approved versions of a similar bill to take to the floor.

..."However, it makes little sense to hold up progress on modernizing the FISA bill to punish private companies that responded to White House requests for information. Senator John D. Rockefeller (D-W.Va.) has done yeoman's work as chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee to forge this compromise, and offered an explanation of his support for an immunity clause in an October 31 Washington Post editorial: "These companies were assured that their cooperation was not only legal but also necessary because of their unique technical capabilities. They were also told it was their patriotic duty to help protect the country after the devastating attacks on our homeland."

In a separate editorial for The Hill on November 8, former senator Bob Kerrey stated, "We cannot hope to achieve such unity of effort (to defeat the enemy) if on the one hand we call upon private industry to aid us in this fight, and on the other allow them to be sued for their good-faith efforts to help."

In sum, since the telecommunications companies had no way of independently verifying the program's legality and were pressured by White House invocations of the national interest, efforts to punish them fail to address the real cause of the problem.

I believe the House version was passed without the immunity provision. I believe Harry Reid gets to pick the version of the Senate bill which will go to the floor.....with or without.

It is amazing to me to go the DLC/PPI website and so often see them against the very issues the activists are calling about and working to achieve. Something is wrong with that picture.

About the war...about the investigations into the events leading up to the war:

Harold Ford: "I caution anybody who continues to talk about the past" in Iraq

About Social Security:

Why are our Democrats joining with right wing groups and Republicans on Social Security?

Why are the DLC/PPI groups advocating exactly the opposite of the netroots, the bloggers, the ACLU, PFAW, the grassroots...by whatever name...why are they doing this?

To protect corporations is their goal.

[Mojorabbit]

1. Here is the contact info

from their website if you'd like to give them an earful.
http://www.ppionline.org/cobrand/contact_us.cfm

[madfloridian]

3. Thanks, good idea to post that.

:hi:

[kansasblue]

2. It does seem we are ready to go after the phone companies....

but afraid to take on the Bush Administration.

[antigop]

4. Surprising? NOT! Consider the source. Thanks for posting. n/t

[madfloridian]

9. Democratic consultants pushing against the people of the party.

This is an issue few of us are divided on. But they are working against us.

[Kucinich4America]

5. Does PNAC member & DLC co-founder Will Marshall still run PPI?

If so, you can assume that the right thing to do would be the exact opposite of anything he suggests. He's no more a Democrat than Richard Perle or Paul Wolfowitz.

[antigop]

6. PPI website

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=87&subsecID=205&contentID=896

Organization: The Progressive Policy Institute is a research and education institute that is a project of the Third Way Foundation Inc., a nonprofit corporation organized under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

Mission: PPI's mission is to define and promote a new progressive politics for America in the 21st century. Through its research, policies, and perspectives, the Institute is fashioning a new governing philosophy and an agenda for public innovation geared to the Information Age.

Chairman, Third Way Foundation: Al From
President, PPI: Will Marshall
Chief Operating Officer, PPI: Paul Weinstein Jr.

[rodeodance]

7. so, the intells, except for one want us to believe they had STUPID lawyers!!

[madfloridian]

8. Good way to express it. They want us to believe they were not very smart.

:-)

[Sam Ervin jret]

10. "Makes little sense to hold .it (the bill with retro immunity)..up"By Jim Arkedis(PPI) JIM! ARE

YOU Fu@&ing kidding ME. Are you seriously trying to dismiss the importance of this issue with a simple "oh by the way?"

Are you as delusional as the Bush administration and the recent DLC?

Do you realize what has been happening to our information for the past several years while Bush has been "watching out" for us?
Do not be misinformed by those who will tell you that the FISA "listening in" is a general non-personal or amorphous type of surveillance that is not as intrusive as it seems because it is done by computers and it is "all technical."

That's BULL

I have actually heard this argument made by very intelligent, good people who feel that the type of peeping that this high tech FISA does is less intrusive because it knows no personal bias and/or it targets no group or person. It only searches for target phrases or word groups or things of that sort from large unknown material and only gets "personal" when the info gets interesting.

I call this, once again, BULL.

Having worked, shortly and early on, with people who program computers it seems clear to me that any program written is written with personal bias even if mathematics is maximize. And the gathering of the material is just the beginning.

With NOAH, the program I have written about before her and which is described in "Spying on the Homefront", plays a fine game of six degrees of separation between pieces data to draw conclusions and/or links where some may or may not exist. This piece of programming when used with wide target spying can cause remarkable and disturbing results. It is a huge privacy intrusion. This program was created for Las Vegas casinos to use. They were finding that some of the people who came in to cheat on cards were in some distant way (school friends, second cousins) related to, or known to the dealers of the cards. This program, developed by some kid who worked for the club, can put the two names together and with the information available to Las Vegas casinos (you can imagine) they can find to several degrees of separation any connection between the two people and thus the cheaters would be uncovered. This is all well and good, as far as it goes, the casino is a private company, and can serve you or not. But do you want this tool in the hands of people who can't even keep the name of their own CIA agents quiet? Not ME! And I want regulation of anyone who uses it!

They have this tool. They have used it before. They are in trouble for it and are trying to get IMMUNITY FOR IT.

PLEASE DO NOT LET THEM. We cannot know how powerful this tool is or how far they went with it without the weapon of the courts and the trials of the communications companies to get to the truth!!

NO DEALS!! NO IMMUNITY!! JUSTICE!! WE MUST KNOW WHAT THEY KNOW AND WHAT THEY DID! With immunity they have no incentive to tell.
Whoever gives them immunity, we can only assume, has a reason to keep them quiet. BUSH I understand, but what have the others to HIDE?

[formercia]

11. I can't believe anyone would even think of Social Security

privatization. I guess they were hoping for the cash influx to prop up their schemes at our expense.

It's all about ideology, not party affiliation.

The boys had infiltrated the Democratic party long ago. Remember, it was members of the Democratic party that attempted a coup in 1933. Same bunch, different generation.

[bonito]

12. The PPI are neocons, also the think tank for the DLC

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1534

[McCamy Taylor]

13. Indeed. The NeoCons sh*t all over the GOP. Now, they want a new kitty box.

Tell 'em "Hell no!"

:grr: :nuke:

[madfloridian]

14. ACLU leader on Ed Schultz tomorrow about this FISA issue.

Just heard it announced.

[Kucinich4America]

16. Even better yet, Ed's off watching his kid play golf

Which means Norman Goldman will be guest hosting. He's an attorney and considerably left of Schultz, so he should have the right questions for the ACLU rep.

[madfloridian]

17. I do like Goldman also.

He is a pretty outspoken radio host.

[DCKit]

15. "... telecommunications companies had no way of independently verifying the program's legality..."

WTF? The request was illegal, the intent is illegal and compliance is illegal.

Since when do the Telecoms no longer have legal departments or top legal representation on retainer to advise them in these situations? Anyone in the least familiar with the Constitution or basic law knows this whole situation reeks and the Telecoms shouldn't be allowed to Gonzo their way out of this one.

Any licensed attorney who claims any aspect of spying on American citizens without a warrant is a "hazy" concept in the eyes of the law needs to be disbarred IMMEDIATELY. They simply are not competent to practice in this country and are knowingly enabling fascists.