OK, what if Senator Biden had said that he would offer Senator Clinton

[hedgehog]

the post of the Chief of the Administration for Children and Families in the Department of Health and Human Services? After all, she worked for years for the Children's Defense Fund.



I hope that puts his statement on Obama in proper context for people.

[aquart]

1. What statement?

[acmavm]

2. The charges of racism and bigotry are getting pretty out-of-hand. Maybe

none of the candidates should say anything.

I'm not sticking up for Biden, believe me. But this is just off the charts ridiculous.

[EffieBlack]

6. STOP with the strawmen!

NO one has accused Biden of racism or bigotry.

This is one of the reasons these discussions are so difficult - the minute someone points out the problem with a comment or attitude, the argument is shifted away from the question of what was actually said to whether raising a question about it is an accusation of racism.

Well, it isn't. So, everyone, please stop throwing strawmen into these discussions.

[acmavm]

13. It's NOT a strawman so knock it off. The constant harping about the shit

the candidates are saying is always phrased in the context that it insults blacks or women if it refers of Barrie or Hils.

What the fuck did Biden say that was wrong? And who is complaining about this 'insensitive' remark? And what is the justification? Because Biden made a remark about a possible place in his administration if he wins. One where he thought he'd make a great fit because of his life experience, not because of the color of his skin?

Barrie fans are playing a disingenuous game here. Crying racism but using the word 'insensitive'. But when called on it, deny ever doing it.


P.S. I don't support Biden and am grateful every day that his ass his so far behind in the polls.

[cali]

17. It's hopeless, Effie. you've tried, in the best of ways

but people are so steeped in partisanship and cultural stuff that they refuse to listen to what you're saying. It's a truism that DU, on the whole, doesn't do nuance.

[EffieBlack]

29. It's so sad, isn't it?

[ginchinchili]

3. If they were discussing the health of children and families

and Hillary took a swipe at Obama and Obama said he'd be happy to make her head of Health and Human Services in an Obama administration, it would not only be proper, it would be the the most appropriate response.

[hedgehog]

4. Here's at least part of the exchange:

News' Eloise Harper, Raelyn Johnson and Sunlen Miller Report: At an event focused on minority issues--the Black & Brown forum in Des Moines, Iowa, Sen. Joe Biden D-Del., raised eyebrows when he answered a question about hate crimes. Citing the Jena 6, Sen. Barack Obama D-Ill., asked Biden if he would help him strengthen the enforcement of hate crimes legislation in the Senate as he would prioritize the issue in his presidency.

Biden responded, "I would be happy to make you the head of the civil right division of my administration."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/12/did-biden-offen.html?cid=92009364#comment-92009364


There is more at the link providing a broad context.

[gateley]

5. Here's Biden's response in CONTEXT with LINK:

This was the context:

Citing the Jena 6, Sen. Barack Obama D-Ill., asked Biden if he would help him strengthen the enforcement of hate crimes legislation in the Senate as he would prioritize the issue in his presidency.

Biden responded, "I would be happy to make you the head of the civil right division of my administration."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/12/did-biden-offen.html



If I didn't think Biden was being unfairly bashed on this, I'd just kind of slink away and wait for it to blow over. But ESPECIALLY seeing this context makes me almost angry that people turned this into a racial issue and that so many jumped on the bandwagon without anything more than a blogger's titillating little quip.

The question was about Hate Crimes, as you can see. What if Dodd had asked the question and Biden responded the same? We all hate racism and are hurt by it. Have we gotten to a point where someone has to say something DIFFERENTLY to an African American than he would to a white person for fear of SOUNDING racist? That's EQUALITY??\

EDIT because my link didn't work. The comments on this link are very thoughtful and well stated, too.

[sandnsea]

7. He would never have said that to a white person

and that's the entire point.

[jillan]

9. No wonder why there is so much racism in this world.

I am appalled that people still say things like that.

If Dodd ran his campaign based on the great work he has done for civil rights and just boasted about it, you can be sure Biden would have offered the same position to Dodd.

[sandnsea]

10. Dodd can head up family services

Seeing as how he has talked about passing the family and medical leave act. Can you see Biden offering him that?

[jillan]

12. I think Biden would want Dodd in charge of finances.

[sandnsea]

14. You think Biden would insult Dodd with a demotion?

No, I don't think you think that at all. Sorry Biden made a stupid comment, but he did. Not a big deal stupid comment, just one people are becoming accustomed to Biden making.

[jillan]

16. Gee - tell me one candidate that does not say stupid things?

We can start with the last election, and I will make you a list of the times Kerry said things that were unbelievably stupid.

But gee - I realized he was not perfect. And neither is any one of the candidates running right now.

[sandnsea]

19. Yep, stupid things get said

I don't know why supporters don't just own it and get on with it.

[ginchinchili]

18. If it was the same context that's exactly how Biden would have responded.

In fact, Joe Biden made the most appropriate response he could. All he did was to take what Obama said to him and turn it around and applied the same ointment to Obama. These are both intelligent grown men, US Senators. There was no rancor here. They were trading barbs. It goes on all the time in campaigns. You'd like to have it where Obama could say things to the other candidates but the other candidates can't respond in any way that reflects badly on Obama. You're just angry because Biden out zinged your candidate.

[sandnsea]

21. I'm not angry at all

Out zinged? lol. Wow. Okay. Whatever.

[gateley]

15. I disagree. Had Dodd asked the same Hate Crimes question, I think Biden

would have responded exactly the same. But apparently you know Biden far better than I do, so... :shrug:

[sandnsea]

22. Biden can go be a police chief

since he's so concerned about cops on the street. That would make good use of Biden's talents.

[gateley]

23. Apples and Oranges. Police Chief of a city is a far cry from being a Cabinet

Member in charge of a vitally important department.

[sandnsea]

24. That's not a cabinet member

It's a Dept Head.

[gateley]

28. Okay - thanks for the correction. BUT

It's a MUCH bigger department than a city police chief would be in charge of! :7

[jillan]

25. I am certain Biden will be happy to remain as chairman of the SFRC

[sandnsea]

26. Oh, so he has Senatorial skills and talents

and it would be insulting to suggest he go off and be a dept head somewhere. Is that what you're saying?

[jillan]

27. Where do you want this conversation to go?

Biden is the chairman of the SFRC.

Obama snarked at Biden, Biden snarked right back - but Biden is a racist so his comments were taken out of context.... in the true mold of Fox news.

I have nothing more to say about it.

[jillan]

8. Context?! Come on gateley. Haven't you learned anything from the Republicans????

You have to take one phrase out of a whole speech to take someone down.

If you put it in context people won't find anything to get mad about.

Maybe you need to spend more time watching Hannity and O'Reilly to see how it's done.

[gateley]

20. I hate it when this happens to Biden, and I hate it when it happens to the other

candidates. I've stood up for them when I feel the criticism is unwarranted and malicious. I EVEN hate it when it happens TO Republicans! It's just not FAIR. God help me, but I've criticized Keith Olbermann for engaging in this type of spin a little too heartily.

When we all jump on this type of bandwagon, what's the difference between us and them?

But your point is well taken! :7

[ginchinchili]

11. You're right. There is absolutely nothing untoward in Biden's quick-witted response.

What else could he say? The only other response would have been for Biden to think, hmmm, this is a black man. Ordinarily I'd turn the tables and offer him the chance to work on the issue in MY administration, but because he's black, that might sound bad. That would be what I'd call subtle racism. But the response he gave was totally racial free (if that makes any sense). It would have been the same if any of the other candidates had first jabbed him like Obama did. When Obama's supporters stoop to this kind of sad charade, it only reflects badly on their candidate. The many Biden supporters that I've had the pleasure of coming across have never shown any inclination to resort to such low ball tactics in order to help their candidate gain ground. It gets harder and harder for me to feel good about being a Democrat, and an American for that matter.

[PatSeg]

30. You said it so well

I'd like to add that we have had a respectful and cordial relationship with Obama supporters for the most part. When he was attacked for his gospel tour and accusations of being a homophobe, we didn't join in the fight.

There were plenty of opportunities to get down in the mud and start slinging, but most of us preferred to keep the conversation on a more elevated level.

I am very disappointed in the inflated remarks over a harmless comment.