Let's put this to rest, most if not all of you WILL vote for Hillary if the nominee.

[PresidentObama]

You can claim otherwise now, but the alternatives are just too damn scary.

If you watched the GOP debate last night, and didn't vomit, you'll understand.

Remember in 2004 when everyone said that was the most important election because America couldn't afford four more years of Bush? Yeah, well, we got four more years. And now we're fastly going down the tube, and some of you claim you won't vote for the Democratic nominee over these Bush on steroids candidates simply because you don't like her?

Does her cackle scare you? Not a fan of the pants suit?

No she's not always authetic. No she's not consistent. Fuck no, she isn't clean as clean could be.

And while I give a lot of criticism of her, I'm not blind to the fact that 'IF' nominated...she'll be the next President of the United States--and America will be better off with her than Mitt Romney, John McCain, Fred Thompson, Rudy Giuliani or Mike Huckabee.

And despite your primary rhetoric, I don't believe most of you who say you won't vote for her. Some of you won't, and that's fine. But the majority of you, like so many of us these days on DU, are blowing hot air.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. You are assuming she will be the nominee

I'm not so sure that will happen.

[PresidentObama]

2. Thats why I said IF. I don't think she will, but if she does...count me on board...

[Bucky]

66. Don't you hate it when you dumb it down for the strident among us... and it's still not dumb enough?

[Tellurian]

4. Hillary will carry the South. Unlike Obama and Edwards..

Edwards didn't even carry his home state last time around. Hillary does well in both NC AND SC..

Hillary is out best bet against Republicans.

[PresidentObama]

10. Last line of your post is personal opinion.

I can tell you from the independent thinking Show-Me State of Missouri, that Missouri will never go for Hillary--and Edwards or Obama would be the best bet here.

I know that's the midwest, and you said she can win in the South, but I think the Democratic nominee will be better pressed to focus on states like Missouri and Arkansas. But I hope our nominee, Hillary or not, will focus on all fifty states.

[Tellurian]

36. All of your post is personal opinion..

thats what message boards are for.. "opinion".

[PresidentObama]

40. This is true, I was merely stating your post as such.

[demnan]

3. I'll vote for the Democratic nominee

always have, and so far, I always will. At the same time, I'll stick an impeach sign in their faces tomorrow at Tysons Corner VA where the DNC are having their meeting tomorrow.

[inthebrain]

5. I'm not really a lesser of two evils type of voter

Right now there is no excuse for losing to a Republican in a national election. First and formost I am an issue voter. With that said, we do have a congress controlled by the Dems and the House as well. If these bums quit acting like star stuck primmadonnas and start acting like a real voting bloc, it shouldn't really matter who wins this election.

In my opinion, the real money in government is in the house and the senate.

[peacebird]

6. I saw the debate last night. And I still will NOT vote for HRC if she is the nominee.

Sorry. No can do. Period. I am done with holding my nose and voting for the lesser of evils.

Just the way it is.

Flame away.

[Evergreen Emerald]

38. then change your name and watch the constitution swirl down the porcelain

bowl as the neo-cons--that YOU helped to put in office, raid the treasury and destroy our country.

I will never understand your position. Never. That you would be willing to give two more supreme court justices to the neo-cons who are currently dismantling our democracy as we whine about who isn't exactly the perfect candidate. Unbelievable.

[peacebird]

46. I will gladly work for and vote for any of the other Dem candidates if they get the nomination

Just not HRC.

There are many folks who feel just like I do on this.

So let us hope that one of our other candidates gets the nod, because a HRC nomination will split the party further than it already is.

[Evergreen Emerald]

57. I do not understand

Have you seen her record? She is more liberal than all of the candidates save Kucinich.

Regarding her "splitting the party." The only reason she is divisive is becasue of the decade of attacks by the right-wings who tried and apparently suceeded in part to re-define and label her. It is a shame that they have such control over even "progressive" people who buy their load of crap and allow them to choose your candidate for you.

[Kucinich4America]

7. Here's a better idea.... How 'bout we don't pretend there is a nominee until August 28, 2008?

Because we don't have one until then.

[PresidentObama]

12. I didn't say we did, and I personally don't think Hillary will be the nominee.

But if she is, I don't buy the notion that some here wouldn't vote for her!!

Unless you like the sound of President Romney or President McCain. Which I personally don't.

[Kucinich4America]

18. Since you obviously were a Kerry supporter, let me ask you this....

When did Kerry win the nomination in 2004?

[PresidentObama]

28. He formally accepted the nomination at the convention.

Point?

[Kucinich4America]

31. The point is this

I've read some posts here in the recent past which indicated that many on this board at the time considered Kerry the nominee as early as February, and demanded that all criticism of him be suppressed. Given the temperament of a certain candidate's faithful, that could even be worse in 2008.

These extended and front loaded primaries are harmful to the party and the country (to say nothing of the corporatism factor) because there really shouldn't BE a nominee until the convention. A Democratic forum such as DU shouldn't contribute to the perversion of that process.

[Hippo_Tron]

50. The primaries are over when the candidate wins the amount of delegates necessary for the nomination

Because barring the death or refusal of the candidate to accept the nomination, nothing can be done to change the fact that they will be the nominee.

It was appropriate to treat Kerry as the nominee in March when he won the required number of delegates. To pretend that primaries were still relevant would have been pointless. Bush certainly wasn't pretending that it was still primary season and he certainly didn't wait until after the convention to start attacking Kerry.

[Kucinich4America]

51. And there is the problem.

Because Kerry was rammed down our throats 9 months before the damn election (and 6 months before the convention!) it gave Rove and his minions - the Swift Buttplugs among others - all that extra time to rip Kerry apart.

If there's no nominee until the end of summer, that's less time for those fools to attack a single target. And in the case of Hillary (God forbid it actually happens) you know they won't hold back anything.

Why do we even HAVE a fucking convention if the nominee is decided in February?? Platform?? Yeah right. Hillary's platform is on the DLC website. There won't be any changes.

The best thing for this party would be a complete primary season, with no nominee determined until that Thursday night in Denver.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

8. If that's the case, why post this?

This post cannot cause anyone to vote for the nominee, but can make people disinclined to vote for the nominee. It pisses off people for no purpose. You concede you are not persuading anyone, since they will vote for her anyway.

And the phrase "you WILL vote for" is unpleasant.

And I'm a Hillary apologist.

[K Gardner]

13. Second that emotion. Only going to make people resent her more.

Like me.:dilemma:

[Alamom]

53. "That" is the point.....

of this OP.

[JeffR]

9. Not a Clinton fan, but I have to say the laugh sounds real to me...

and of course I'll vote D, even if our nominee is a burlap bag filled with guano.

[ruggerson]

58. How did the guano vote on the IWR?

n/t

[JeffR]

63. Voted for dropping it

I think.

[Speck Tater]

11. Absolutely. Since the ship of state has already struck an iceberg,

and is sinking fast, now is definitely the time to fire the old captain and hire a new captain.

The problem is that between climate change and the worsening economy, the next ten years are going to be the beginning of the end of the American Empire. If we elect a Democratic president all that means is that the Democrats will end up taking the blame for the fact that the country is falling apart. But either way, the economy is falling apart and it will be a long while before it turns around, no matter what the Dems do.

Sorry to be so pessimistic, but, hey, I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

[Zorra]

14. Most Democrats will vote for her. Most Independents will not. n/t

[PresidentObama]

15. Fair. I think she's electable, but we certainly have better and more electable candidates.

Like Obama, Edwards, Biden, and Richardson.

[ilovesunshine]

17. In your opinion, of course.

If forced to, I will support Obama, Edwards, Biden, etc. I don't find any of them more electable than Hillary at all.

I'm also sofa king sick of reading about her supposed "cackle".

[PresidentObama]

22. Yes, it's my opinion. And I'm glad you have yours.

And I'll finish by saying: May the best candidate be nominated!!

Our country deserves one of these candidates as President....

:hi:

[mtnsnake]

16. For someone like you who's crashed my threads & smeared me about my motives, you've got some nerve

telling ANYONE on this forum that you know better than they do as far as what they're going to do or not going to do.

How fucking ironic that you lied through your teeth more than once when you barged into my threads telling me I was just out for reactions and that I'm insincere and all kinds of other smears about me right out of center field and for no reason other than to disrupt my threads because you disagreed with what I said. It's ironic because here you are, making believe that you're looking out for the best interests of our Party, when all you're really doing is insulting Hillary worse than the people you're preaching to. Just look at your third and fourth paragraphs and anyone can see what your real message is.

[PresidentObama]

20. Sigh. Yawn.

Mtnsnake, who takes any opportunity to get under anti-Hillary voters skin, attacks me for calling those same peoples bluff on them "not" voting for Hillary if the nominee.

Another day on DU....

:hangover:

[Lex]

19. You are correct.

She's not my first choice, but I will gladly pull the lever for her over ANY of the nutjobs the R's are running.

[rhett o rick]

21. NO. I am damn tired of the Party taking me for granted. I don't want much.

I want the Constitution to be reestablished, torture and spying stopped immediately, habeas corpus re-instituted, and the corporate control of government thru lobbying stopped. If the Democratic candidate doesn't convince me they will do that, then the hell with them. I am so very, very sick of being told I have to support a candidate because they are the lesser of evils. I say bullshit to that. If the Democratic candidate won't commit to reestablishing the Constitution then let the republicans win. Maybe that will bring on the revolution quicker. A corporate Democrat candidate will only slowly the boil the froq into fascism.

I want freedom back now and if you don't agree, it's time to rumble.

And since I am ranting, pleez, pleez don't give me the bullshit that a particular candidate has pledged to "work" to end the war, for example. If you can't see thru the rhetoric of "work toward", then there is no hope. I don't want a candidate that will "work" to reestablish freedom. I want a commitment.

Don't friggin' Tread on Me.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

23. Whoever is the nominee...I will vote for that person! (nt)

[PresidentObama]

25. Thank you, Peggy!!

[elizm]

24. I will not. nt

[PresidentObama]

26. Why? I don't really like the alternative.

[elizm]

29. Since I live in SC....

And there isn't a chance in hell that any Democrat will win this state, I have the luxuary of refusing to vote for someone I think is the wrong choice.

[bunnies]

27. ONLY because of the Supreme Court...

but I will Hate every second of it. :puke:

[ileus]

30. Hillary there's no getting around it. You will vote for her. 50 states in 2008

[Kucinich4America]

32. 50 states? Whatever you're smoking, pass the bong over this way.

[PresidentObama]

33. Yes, 50 states. The wonderful strategy Dean used in our victories in 2006.

[Kucinich4America]

39. Dean's strategy was correct, but it didn't win every seat in 2006

And it's not realistic to think we would get 50 states in a Presidential election either. With any candidate. Certainly not with Hillary!

(Unless she buys Diebold and they manage to tie up every precinct in the country)

[PresidentObama]

42. The point isn't to win in every state, it's to compete in every state.

We'll never win if we don't compete.

And some states we don't traditionally win will be up for grabs in 2008 with the right candidate as our nominee.

[Kucinich4America]

47. But this thread isn't about the right candidate, is it?

No wait. It is about the RIGHT candidate. Just not the correct candidate for the Democratic Party. :evilgrin:

For the record (since you're flying Edwards colors now) I would vote for John in the General, and pray to God that the populist son of a millworker showed up for the job, and not the Bilderberger pal who voted for the IWR.

[HughBeaumont]

61. No I won't. At all.

She'll win Ohio and Florida? Utah? Idaho? Montana? South Carolina?

Delusion isn't just something magicians do, I guess.:silly:

[polichick]

34. Depends on how well she listens to the people between now and then...

I'm voting for the one who gets it ~ Dem or Indie.

[youthere]

35. You're right..I will..

Several months ago I made a big deal myself telling family and friends there was no way I'd vote for her..I'd leave the party first...but the more I listen to her and the more ridiculous attacks I see from her critics (you know...if Hillary gets in the whitehouse it will bring famine, plague, pestilence...plus all the elastic in your underwear will fail) the more I think she's got it going on. And the more I see about what's waiting on the otherside of the aisle..:scared:

Hillary isn't the nightmare I once believed her to be...I will be caucusing for Joe Biden, but if Hillary wins the primary..I'll not only vote for her...I'll work on her campaign.

[sniffa]

37. yes, i will

i will hold my nose, while puking in my sleeve, and pull that lever. :patriot:

in fact, i'm getting on board now. Goillary!!1!

:woohoo:

[AtomicKitten]

41. It couldn't hurt to post this on a regular basis.

The GOP debates are the cure to election malaise.

[LWolf]

43. No, I WON'T.

Obi-Wan Kenobi you are not.

Hillary has been "off my table" since before she announced, and no amount of partisan bullying will change that. I clearly, openly, and publicly stated this more than a year ago, I've stated it repeatedly since, and I'll state it again.

HILLARY CLINTON WILL NOT GET MY VOTE.

[KoKo]

44. I don't get to vote until May 5th....If Kucinich is still in ...I'll vote for him...if not

I'll write in Al Gore. Sorry...i have to do my conscience this year. But, I will be excited about voting for my State Dems who will be running. We have a new Election to replace Liddy Dole coming up...
and there are other positions in my State Elections who are Dems who need my vote that I can feel good about casting. I cannot vote for Hillary... Don't think a dynasty is what America is about...sorry.

[durrrty libby]

45. "I don't get to vote until May 5th"

Knowing that makes me smile

[ima_sinnic]

48. who are you to tell me whom I will vote for? you are dead wrong.

I have the right to vote for a third-party candidate, to write in a name, or simply not to vote at all. any of those are preferable to voting for a DLC trojan horse candidate whose first loyalty is to Big Pharma, Big Media, and the rest of her billionaire sponsors who are greasing her palm with payola. And spare me the crap about the Supreme Court nominee. Put a real, uncorrupt Democrat up and that will not be a problem.

HRC is just about the WORST candidate--she gives multitudinous Democrats hives and she will inspire otherwise apathetic repukes to come out of the woodwork to vote AGAINST her! how the #%* is that "electable"? (a DLC bullshit concept). I don't like dynasties, I don't like her kiss-ass loyalty to the predatory capitalist globalists, I don't like her lack of leadership in anything, I don't like her wishy washy non policy about Iraq. There is just SOOOO much wrong with HRC.

So you can take your presumptuous crap elsewhere.

[JTFrog]

49. Would rather put that post to rest.

Arrogance without humility is a recipe for high-concept irrelevance.

[cleveramerican]

52. I will... reluctantly

[rucky]

54. I'm not as worried about the Left not voting...

as I am the righties voting in droves. I really hope she doesn't get it, and Mitt or Rudy get the GOP nom, so the fundies can keep their hatred at home. If it's Huck vs. Clinton, well that gives them two reasons to go to the polls.

[Perry Logan]

55. Hillary has an 83% approval rating among blacks. But what do they know?

Hillary Clinton is overwhelmingly popular with black voters, drawing higher approval ratings than the only major African-American candidate running for president, according to a study released today by the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies.

Clinton's own record as First Lady and New York senator -- along with her marriage to former President Bill Clinton, who is very popular among black voters -- earned her an 83 percent approval rating among likely black voters, compared to 75 percent who ranked Illinois Senator Barack Obama positively, the study said.
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2007/11/black_voters_tilt_toward_clinton_study.html

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. She Does Best Among People Of Color And Gays

People who are used to having the iron heel of oppression on their necks... She doesn't do nearly as well among the so called intellectual elites...

[HughBeaumont]

59. OK, believe me when I say . . . I will not vote for Hillary Clinton.

Not in the Primary. Not in the General. My vote will be a write in.

If everyone is so fucking scared or concerned about her dividing the left and the center, then maybe there needs to be more work in the preliminary stages of things to AVOID HAVING such a risky candidate with less-than-Democratic positions regarding the war and economy in the first place.

Let the fucking Republicans nominate a pro-war, free-trader, Murdoch annointed corporatist. That's them. I want to be part of the party of opposition. I want to be part of the party that stands for the PEOPLE first and foremost. Unbridled corporatism needs to end, not be enabled. They've had their gravy train under this shitty administration. It's time for change. With her, you will not get that.

By nominating someone who unapolgetically enabled Bewsh's wars, voted for Kyl/Lieberman, supports free trade, job offshoring and Indian outsourcing companies and still supports Big Insurance-run health care, it just reeks of an acquiescence.

I voted for Gore and Kerry. I never believed they were the "lesser of two evils". I knew the Bewsh money/corporate machine was too dangerous to overcome. There's no Bewsh this time. People are genuinely angry with how corporate rubberstamp Republicans screwed up this country beyond repair these past 12 years.

So all I have to say is that everyone better nominate the best person for the job and not toss it the hell away on a risky choice that, I'm sorry, I believe will lose us votes and states.

[zulchzulu]

60. If Hillary is the nominee, she will have to work for my vote

If she veers right, I will not vote for her. Period.

Chances are that I will not do any grassroots work for her if she is the nominee based on how neither she or many of her followers give a shit about it... they would have to prove to me that it's worth my time and effort.

In light of all that, I fully don't expect her to be the nominee. So perhaps all this is a moot point anyway.

Gobama!

[Kitsune]

62. This worked on me in 2004. It won't in 2008.

I wasted a vote on John Kerry and we all know how well that went. I'm not in a hurry to throw my vote away again, especially on someone I like even less than I liked Kerry in 2004.

[Lilith Velkor]

68. I swear, these loyalty-oath dipshits would make me want to vote for Nader

...if I didn't know a lot of 'em are just trolls.

[LanternWaste]

64. As I'm thoroughly impressed by all Democratic contenders...

As I'm thoroughly impressed by all the Democratic contenders, I'll vote for whoever the nominee is, and I won't be holding my nose when I do it.

But then again, I'm not ashamed to say I'm a Democrat...

[DeadElephant_ORG]

65. I fought for Kerry - will NEVER vote for another FAKE progressive

[ScreamingMeemie]

67. I've lived through the worst this summer, and no, I won't be voting

for Hillary as the nominee. It just doesn't fucking matter to me anymore. It bothers me that so many think they "know" what people will do. I always questioned any of the candidates who couldn't come clean on their insider politicking...Hillary especially. With that war vote, Hillary voted to widow thousands of husbands and wives. With that vote Hillary allowed for the senseless killing of many a child's parent. As a widow without the will to care anymore, I would never get up off the couch to vote for a woman who doesn't have the decency to care about those like me. Sorry. I don't find myself caring much beyond what happens inside these four walls, and that's a stretch most days.Believe it.

FWIW, I can't stand these types of posts. And I don't care about my membership here anymore which is quite freeing really. But supposition as to how people actually feel, and when they've met their limit is never very intelligent.