Same BREW-HA-HA! any-day.... When it comes to the haters of "HRC haters"

[hedgetrimmer]

Everyday the poor mortified band together to protect the defenseless Hillary. Each day these bandits attack another candidate under the guise of standing up for Hillary. Yet in fact these "haters" are really just hating on everyone else.

We do not have to like her or any other candidate. Each one has a hater level, each one has likable level and each one has to earn my vote. The little jibbly jabs made here and elsewhere are all do-do and push my hand to another candidate for a funk that vote.... bite me hater bait.

[Richard Steele]

1. Whaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. no more piling on poor wittle ole her!

she's just a gurl! And all those meanie guys are ganging up on her!
And how dare they point out her

support of Iraq war
support of Iran's invasion
support of FISA
support of domestic surveillance without warrants
support of Patriot Act
support of the destruction of Social Security

I mean, really. That is so mean, and mysogenistical and anti-woman, and so well, FACT BASED! Only meanie Guys would attack her with facts!

[bvar22]

18. Please allow me to add:

*support of the For Profit Health Insurance Industry

*support of INCREASING the Defense Budget

*support of expanding the Military

*support of importing low wage foreign workers for American jobs (H1B)

*support of exporting American jobs (Free Trade)

*support of the Iraq "Oil Law" (privatizing Iraqi Oil Resources)

*unquestioning and unqualified support for the right-wing Likud government in Israel

*Her refusal to speak out against the "Unitary Executive"

*her refusal to pledge to continue investigations and prosecutions of War Criminals after 2008

*her refusal to acknowledge and address the problems with Electronic Voting/Election Reform


I don't hate Hillary. I strongly oppose her nomination.

Hillary nomination = most risk for least democratic gain.
Why risk it? :shrug:





The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Whisp]

24. bankruptcy act support?

that's another zinger.
can't keep up with all the wonderful things she has supported. This one has to be in the list as well, I would think but I could have missed it as the list is quite a scroll.

but you know, nevermind all that list shit - what does it matter how she thinks and votes - you just hate her hate her hate her ;(

good grief the H supporters are looking more and more to me like a bunch of hypnotised lobotomized cultists. There is something very odd about all this, very very very odd.

[bvar22]

29. IIRC,

Hillary voted FOR it before she voted AGAINST it.

More ambiguous DoubleSpeak.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[ChairmanAgnostic]

46. I forgot about that disaster.

that has caused so much pain and suffering for individuals, while financial institutions love it.

something is very wrong with her priorities. I cannot understand the virulent support she has from a very few. Nor can I understand their refusal to face up to facts.

[truedelphi]

55. Well now, it is so mean to

Pick on her for the bankruptcy thing because her husband was undergoing heartt surgery that day.

And of course his surgery paralysed her, and took any words she might have used in a press conference against the noxious bankruptcy act right out of her mouth. Just stopped those words from ever escaping her lips.

[creeksneakers2]

30. I just don't like people saying things about Hillary that are untrue

Like the list you gave.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. What's not true on that list?

Yes she does support the war. She wants to leave our troops in Iraq.

[creeksneakers2]

40. I'll go through them

support of Iraq war
Wants to end most of war. Votes against war funding. So this one isn't as simple as alleged.

support of Iran's invasion
Hillary is against an invasion or Iran.


support of FISA
She voted against the last FISA bill. Unless this item is meant as it is written. FISA is good because it protects the public. Its the weakening of FISA that upsets the left.

support of domestic surveillance without warrants
Does not support domestic surveillance without warrants. Voted against the last FISA bill.

support of Patriot Act
I don't know her position on this.

support of the destruction of Social Security
An absolute unqualified dirty lie.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. She doesn't want to bring the troops home before 2013

That would indicate support for the war.

I won't argue the rest with you. The war is my #1 issue so I have followed it more closely than other issues.

[creeksneakers2]

50. Clarification

Hillary did not say she wanted to keep the troops in until 2013. She said she couldn't promise to have them out before then.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Kucinich is promising to bring them home as soon as he is in office

So is Richardson.

Hence, I support either of them over Hillary.

Now if Hillary would come out and say she wants our troops home right away, then she would have my support and probably a bunch of other anti-war activists as well. It would be a smart move on her part and a good way to appeal to the left of the party.

[bvar22]

52. "Wants to end most of war" ...!!!!!!

Dude, you gotta be kidding!

Ending some of the war at some future date is a PRO WAR position.
It is a doublespeak promise to continue the WAR!

[ClarkUSA]

59. That picture says it all.

:rofl:

[Reno.Muse]

2. They hate those of us who hate "reruns" in the White House

[Perry Logan]

8. Not at all. We find you quite amusing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. That doesn't bother me as much as her stance on the issues

[Perry Logan]

3. I react when any candidate is maliciously attacked. I therefore spend all my time defending Hillary

I'm living proof that the attacks against Hillary are in a class by themselves. I've felt compelled to defend her dozens of times, but almost never find myself needing to defend the other candidates. That's because the attacks are nowhere near as bad as the attacks on Hillary. I will testify to this in any court in the land.

[earthlover]

5. Hillary made the 1st negative personal attack,calling Obama "naive and frankly irresponsible

Her gaggle of supporters are as quick to call Democrats "haters" as Bush's cabal called those who did not support Iraq "haters". It was very apparent that anyone who disagreed with Bush's policies was labeled a "hater". I see no reason to continue this type of logic in our primary race.

It doesn't make you a "hater" if you disagree with Hillary's policies, think they are too conservative, oppose her support for Iraq and Kyl-Lieberman. It doesn't make you a "hater" if you think she had a bad debate performance or if you find her campaign's planting of questions deplorable. It doesn't make you a "hater" if you want a fresh start for this country instead of a continuation of decades of Bush-Clinton-Bush rule. It doesn't make you a "hater" if you don't think Clinton will win Iowa. It doesn't make you a "hater" if you don't think Clinton would win in November. And it doesn't make you a "hater" if you think even if Clinton should win, we would have a continually polarized society with few substantive changes on health care, foreign policy or anything else.

But the fact of the matter, a lot of people out there do hate Hillary. And a lot of us hate Bush.

According to a recent Zogby poll, about half of Americans would never consider voting for Hillary in the general election. Call it hate if you want. Maybe it is.

[Perry Logan]

7. "Hillary is an insult to my dead mother." Hillary is "a scheming, duplicitous sociopath."

"I'll vomit if Hillary gets the nomination." "Hillary is Pro War and Pro Iran Invasion AND against The Democratic Party!" Not to mention "corporate whore," "bitch," "stooge." Stuff like that. The attacks against Hillary are so vicious, they have completely changed my thinking. I'm sure the incontinent language of the Hillary-haters has won her countless supporters.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

12. thanks for those. Can I quote them? they sound perfect.

if you gather any others, please let us know.

[ClarkUSA]

36. ROFL

:rofl:

[venable]

13. I think you're wrong when you write:

'I'm sure the incontinent language of the Hillary-haters has won her countless supporters.'



I don't think anybody has changed anybody's mind on any candidate here. And the language against HRC may be quantitatively more than against other candidates, but it sure as hell isn't even close to what others get as far as incontinence.

My complaint against HRC is I don't like or trust her - that is not an attack, do you understand, that is a temperate observation about what I think of her.


My complaint against HRC supporters is that they get offended at language such as what I used in the above statement, act as if I've kidnapped Chelsea, and so attack my candidate with opinions posing as facts, and outright lies.

I spent two weeks asking HRC supporters to not attack my guy, but to tell me anything, any ONE THING, that drew them to HRC from a policy point of view. I must have asked 20 or 30 times. I never got one answer back, but instead got snarky comments about, again, my candidate.

I frankly think the OP is right on.

[bvar22]

23. WOW

Letting a small minority of idiots control what you think and how you choose to behave is seriously dangerous.

You don't have to give away your control.

Think:
"Proactive", not "Reactive".

[Skip Intro]

44. That's a big thing that pushed me in her direction. n/t

[earthlover]

56. I never said any of the crap you quoted. By the way, could you provide links to show who did?

Neither did you respond to my points. Any of them.

[Bitwit1234]

6. Unlike the HILLARY HATERS I don't hate any of the other candidates

If I wanted to , I could be as stupid and as anti-democratic as any of the Hillary haters. But they are so juvy they think posting the litany of messages some 20 years old about Hillary would change any body's mind. IT SURE CHANGED MY MIND. From NOT being a Hillary supporter to researching into what she stands for and believes in and BECOMING a Hillary supporter. So flame all you want, and you will, cause you have nothing else and the more you do, the more people will see the juvy responds and desperation and jump on the Hillary bandwagon...kick ass Hillary and show that what a woman can do PRESIDENT HILLARY CLINTON. Sure as hell sounds good.

[mtnsnake]

9. Did you write this masterpiece on your own or did your babysitter help you?

[hedgetrimmer]

22. I done made it ups myselfs.... thank you. n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

47. LOL!

[ClarkUSA]

37. Are you really a Kucinich supporter? Because all I see you do is support/defend Hillaryworld.

Just sayin'.

[mtnsnake]

49. Are you really a Democrat? Because all I see you do is support/defend rightwing talking points.

Just sayin'.

[ClarkUSA]

53. Oh, you just proved you are a Hilaryworlder (pretending to be a Kucinich supporter).

Only a Hillaryworld Kool-Aide drinker would describe someone who dares criticizes their Queen of Parsing
as someone who "support/defend rightwing talking points".

Gotcha.

[jefferson_dem]

10. The "victimization" shtick is way old. The "Hillary Hater" haters gig is up.

n/t

[zulchzulu]

11. The "Hillary Hater" meme is like some grade school playground clapping game

It would go like this:

We think Hillary is the best debator
We think you are a Hillary Hater
We think Bill is even greater
We think you are a Hillary Hater

Hillary Hater! You! You! You!
Hillary Hater! Boo! Boo! Boo!

:boring:

[bvar22]

26. They borrowed that "HATER" thing from the Bush crowd.

Those Bush supporters with limited intellect or resources started using the Bush Hater meme in 2000. I thought it laughable when the blind faith Hillary supporters plagiarized this tactic directly from Bush lock steppers.

"If it works for Bush, its good enough for us!"
:rofl:

It is a device to deflect from any discussion of valid criticism or issues oriented debate.

[ClarkUSA]

41. Yup. Hillaryworld = Bizarro Bushworld

To borrow a theme from Seinfield, that great observer of neurotic human behavior.

[ClarkUSA]

39. LOL! You can't make their shit up.

That is some funny ass poetry talent you have there.

:rofl:

[itsrobert]

14. K&R

I am a hillary hater and i'm proud
I use to feel alone in a crowd
but now you look around these days

and it seems theres a hillary hater CRAZE
i'm a hater he's a hater she's a hater we're a hater
wouldn't you like to be a hater too?
i'm a hater he's a hater she's a hater
if you're a Hillary hater you're a hater too!
us haters are an interesting breed
an honest candidate is what we need
ask any hater and they'll say "only Hillary hatings the way"
i'm a hater he's a hater she's a hater we're a hater wouldn't you like to be a hater too?
i'm a hater he's a hater she's a hater we're a hater wouldn't you like to be a hater too?

be a hater stop Hillary Clinton now! come on! (x4)

[mtnsnake]

16. You should put that to some original music and have an instant DU hit!

Not bad!

[William769]

15. And yet no one attacks Hillary!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

If you only knew what you sounded like with your post. :rofl:

Some people just fucking amaze me with their ignorance oops I meant arrogance. :evilgrin:

[Beaverhausen]

17. Here Here.

I am sick of the name calling and the "hater" label. Come on folks - we are all on the same side. Can't we try to have our discussions without resorting to these base tactics?

[asdjrocky]

19. I'm willing.

[creeksneakers2]

33. I hate Edwards

but I'm trying to be a little less impolite about it.

[Catherine Vincent]

20. Hillary Clinton-haters....

You are what you are.

[cuke]

21. One thing is obvious

The HH's know who they are.

[hayu_lol]

25. To discover what Hillary is...

one has to go back to the days when she was at Yale Law and see what she was involved in. It was from those days that her line: "It takes a village to raise a child" comes from.

Gutsy lady in a field of gutless candidates.

So, HH do your thing. Of the bunch, she is the best.

[BenDavid]

27. compared to the hate directed at HRC and the sensible posts

by HRC supporters directed at Obama is so different. Not once and I speak for myself have I ever written hate directed at Obama. I post according to the facts I have before me and thus post as such.

For example in one post the person said HRC was running scared in Iowa and hired new staffers based largely on the abc/post poll. My post in response was HRC and campaign had decided earlier to hire more staffers in Iowa. The poster accused me of being wrong about my facts. Well I will let the fair minded here in DU decide. Here is the article that I brought up from my files:

CLINTON TO ADD 100 IOWA STAFFERS
From NBC’s Domenico Montanaro and Chuck Todd
Sources tell First Read the Clinton campaign is making a push to significantly step up their efforts in Iowa. They are aiming to add more 100 paid staff in the Hawkeye State by Nov. 1.
The campaign has also created a flier advertising an Oct. 28 and 29th Clinton “job fair” in Arlington, Va., where to send resumes and how to set up phone interviews.

According to an analysis by the Des Moines Register, Obama has 145 paid staffers in Iowa, Edwards has 130 and Clinton has 117.

Addendum: The abc/post poll was conducted from 11/14 - 11/18

I do thank you
Ben David

[RufusTFirefly]

28. Sensible reasons to be wary of a Clinton nomination -- reprise

Pay no attention to those facts behind the curtain!



Lest the facts get lost in the fog of hysterical accusations -- which is at least partially the intent, I imagine -- here is a consolidated list of sensible concerns provided in this thread (Thanks to antifaschits and bvar22)

* support of Iraq war
* support of Iran's invasion
* support of FISA
* support of domestic surveillance without warrants
* support of Patriot Act
* support of the destruction of Social Security
* support of the For Profit Health Insurance Industry
* support of INCREASING the Defense Budget
* support of expanding the Military
* support of importing low wage foreign workers for American jobs (H1B)
* support of exporting American jobs (Free Trade)
* support of the Iraq "Oil Law" (privatizing Iraqi Oil Resources)
* unquestioning and unqualified support for the right-wing Likud government in Israel
* refusal to speak out against the "Unitary Executive"
* refusal to pledge to continue investigations and prosecutions of War Criminals after 2008
* refusal to acknowledge and address the problems with Electronic Voting/Election Reform

I imagine that some of these concerns can be refuted or at least "spun." If so, I'd love to read them. Why not do that instead of continuing to do battle against "Hillary haters"?

[creeksneakers2]

34. Combined one bogus list with a more legitimate list n/t

[RufusTFirefly]

35. OK. So someone address the concerns in the legitimate list.

I was consolidating, not editing.
Your comment could be helpful if you took the next step.

My problem is that Clinton supporters seem to spend more time bemoaning "Hillary haters" and posting poll results than they do trumpeting her viewpoints and responding to those who have legitimate concerns about her voting record and some of her public pronouncements.

[creeksneakers2]

42. I commented on the first list at post #40

Here's the second list, that I don't have as much problem with:

* support of the For Profit Health Insurance Industry
She also supports expanding government health insurance. Subsidized government insurance will compete with unsubsidized private insurance.Hillary will place regulations on private insurance that mandate covering all regardless of pre-existing conditions. She's no private insurance company dream.

* support of INCREASING the Defense Budget
* support of expanding the Military
These two are about the same thing. Hillary said she'd increase the size of the armed forces. She also said she'd put the weapons industry back under control. So one will go up while the other goes down. I don't know what the net will be. I don't think anybody does.

* support of importing low wage foreign workers for American jobs (H1B)
She does support H1B. This one is true.

* support of exporting American jobs (Free Trade)
There are many good reasons to support free trade. Losing American jobs is one negative posed against other positives. What is said in this item is like saying somebody supports oil company price gouging because they drive a car.

* support of the Iraq "Oil Law" (privatizing Iraqi Oil Resources)
I think this one is right, but haven't checked. There is support for the Iraq Oil law because it would divide up oil revenues, therefore creating a treaty. Otherwise future competition for oil revenues could lead to war. Because Hillary supports the law as a whole doesn't mean she supports American oil companies taking over.

* unquestioning and unqualified support for the right-wing Likud government in Israel
Close

* refusal to speak out against the "Unitary Executive"
When did she refuse to speak out against the Unitary Executive? I think this item is made up.

* refusal to pledge to continue investigations and prosecutions of War Criminals after 2008
Does this mean she doesn't promise to prosecute Bush and Cheney? That's true, but when did she refuse to comment?

* refusal to acknowledge and address the problems with Electronic Voting/Election Reform
From Hillary's website:
Provides a paper trail for every vote cast.
Designates Election Day as a national holiday.
Allows same-day registration.
Minimizes long lines at the polls.
Makes sure that impartial officials administer our elections.
Allows the attorney general to bring suit against anyone using deceptive practices (like distributing flyers with incorrect information about voter eligibility) to keep voters from voting.
Helps states invest in better voting technology

[RufusTFirefly]

45. Thank you!!!

This is a start. Some people may actually support some of these views. If so, then it may be that Hillary Clinton is their best candidate.

What concerns me is that Clinton supporters seem unwilling to devote much time to championing her viewpoints.

Regarding the Iraq "Oil Law," Kucinich is the only candidate I'm aware of who has spoken out against it. If I'm right, this appalls me, as it would seem to be a pretty clear case of blackmail.

[OwnedByFerrets]

38. GLADLY K & R'd

[ClarkUSA]

48. Thanks for a wonderfully enjoyable thread topic.

And kudos to all the replies taking on the haters of "Hillary haters".

lol

[hedgetrimmer]

54. My pleasure. N/T

[Prophet 451]

57. oh boy

Y'know, I see four types of posts around here about HRC. One type are her supporters saying how wonderful she is (which is fine, everyone is doing that about their preferred candidate). Then there are the posts criticising her for reasonable things (such as her record or her contemptable "poor little girl" act). Then there are those who just don't like HRC. And finally, there are the wildly defensive posts accusing everyone who isn't actively supporting Hillary of hating her.

Thing is, much like Bush's defenders in his first term (and I'm suggesting no comparison except a similar defense mechanism), the defense of her seems wildly disproportionate to the actual criticism she receives. Sure, various people call Hillary nasty names and that's a bad thing but for every thread I see calling her nasty names, I see four or five complaining about Hillary haters. What more, the Hillarites (for lack of a better term) seem to deliberatly conflate reasonable criticism with name-calling. Pretending that criticisng Hillary's record is the same as calling her a corporate whore is roughly the same as the righties who try to pretend Mike Moore and Ann Coulter are the same thing.

Finally, and this is something I only see from Hillarites is the impression that they feel she deserves the nomination purely for being Hillary. Granted, this is personal observation and so may be flawed but I've yet to see a Hillarite try to argue the merits of Hillary's approach to, say, health insurance. They just seem to assume that we should back Hillary because, well, she's Hillary. I didn't think Dems did the cult of personality thing.

I actually don't think a Hillary presidency would be that bad but geez, her supporters are starting to piss me off.

[hedgetrimmer]

58. It's all good in the hood, I'm glad you understood. N/T

[DCKit]

60. The haters of the HRC haters are making me hate HRC by association. nt