Clinton vs. Obama fighting benefits every candidate other than Obama

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

Hillary is perceived as a bitch, even by many of her supporters.

Obama is perceived as a saint.

If the public sees Clinton and Obama ss squabbling children, Obama's media image of being different and idealistic is tarnished a lot. Hillary's media image of unlikeable toughness is hurt little.

This is a classic case of taking a hit to deliver a bigger hit. A war of attrition favors Clinton, so she would be delighted to give up five points herself to take Obama down five points.

Anything that drives support away from BOTH Clinton and Obama benefits Clinton. The objective is to keep the anti-Clinton vote splintered. (She wants Edwards and Richardson to do better, and Obama to do worse.)

[quinnox]

1. good point

Hillary is known as one that is skilled in the world of politics and isn't above throwing hard punches when attacked, but Obama is the fresh face who talks about unity and not engaging in dirty politics. So when this back and forth between them happens as you say it doesn't hurt Hillary but knocks Obama down a few pegs.

[JohnnyLib2]

2. Shhhhhhh.

[jenmito]

3. You must've missed this thread: "Obama Is Paying No Price For Aggression"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3748570

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. It's early yet. Once the pattern of tit-for-tat is established things will get more and more heated

If a race is harsh on Thanksgiving it will be atomic by Christmas. Neither side will back down, so it can only escalate.

There is a population of voters who cannot stand what they perceive as negative. (rightly or wrongly)

Obama has a lot of those voters in his corner, so he has more to lose from negativity. We don't know whether he will lose any of support, but he has more exposure.

Voters don't react immediately, and this thing has only been hot for one week. We'll see.

[jenmito]

12. But Hillary's been trying to look like she's "above the fray"

yet she's been mocking Obama for living abroad and Obama has been responding to her. He, unlike say, Edwards, isn't aggressively going AFTER her. I don't think he'll be hurt by not letting Hillary's attacks go unanswered.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

14. I'm not criticizing Obama, merely noting he's in a tricky position, message-wise

[jenmito]

17. I think he's handling it perfectly and NOT getting hurt by it...

as he says, the "politics of hope" doesn't mean all holding hands and singing kumbaya. It's perfectly legit to point out differences.

[MethuenProgressive]

8. real headline of that blog cited was: "Nasty As He Wants To Be"

Karma is going to leap up and bite him on the behind.

[jenmito]

13. That's the title, but it's not the substance nor the reality of how he's acting.

There's no negative karma heading his way.

[Colobo]

4. If Obama plays passive, he will be steamrolled.

What the Clintons want is for him to stay quiet and not challenge them in any instance.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

5. Also true. Obama cannot be passive, but he can't be a "typical politician"

It's a fine line to walk...

Obama has competing themes. He needs to comfort people who think he's too mild without alienating people who despise conventional politics.

He may pull it off just fine, but it's a tricky course.

[Perry Logan]

7. This is a joke, right?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

9. Thanks for your insightful post. HappyThanksgiving to you!

[jenmito]

10. "Obama Is Paying No Price For Aggression"

http://www.slate.com/id/2178381/nav/tap3

[Jim Sagle]

11. It's all good for Edwards.

:beer:

[jenmito]

15. I disagree. He's seen as angry and aggressive...

and it's not very appealing.

[MethuenProgressive]

16. Yup, it validates his early move to negative personal attacks.

Edwards, Obama, and the GOP - all using the same tactics against Clinton.
Makes ya proud, don't it?

[jenmito]

18. Obama isn't using the same tactics as the GOP...

he's only pointing out their differences. Hillary is using GOP tactics by belittling Obama's life experience.

[MethuenProgressive]

19. When Obama belittled Clinton's life experience, and used Novak to attack her

he might as well have been getting instructions right from Karl Rove.

[jenmito]

21. Obama didn't belittle Clinton's life experience until SHE did it to HIM.

He struck back as he should. He didn't use Novak to attack her. Hate Novak all you want-he DOES have sources and stories leaked to him. The Hillary camp is ruthless and has denied being involved in things/with people before.

[MethuenProgressive]

22. "He didn't use Novak to attack her."? Obama and Novak were probably in cahoots.

Anti-Clinton collaboration isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

[jenmito]

24. LOL...

It's Clinton's people telling things to Novak. We KNOW Hillary has RW friends/connections. There's no way Obama's in cahoots with Novak.

[MethuenProgressive]

25. "It's Clinton's people telling things to Novak. " Not according to Novak & Media Matters,

That might be what the Obama campaign emails are telling you, but it's not true.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200711200006?f=h_top

CNN's Beck falsely asserted that Novak "said it was an insider on the Clinton campaign"
On the November 19 edition of CNN Headline News' Glenn Beck, discussing Robert D. Novak's November 17 nationally syndicated column, in which he wrote that "gents of Sen. Hillary Clinton are spreading the word in Democratic circles that she has scandalous information about her principal opponent for the party's presidential nomination, Sen. Barack Obama , but has decided not to use it," host Glenn Beck asserted that Novak "said" his source "was an insider on the Clinton campaign." In fact, as Media Matters for America documented, during the November 19 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends, Novak acknowledged that his purported "source" was not involved in the Clinton campaign, referring to that "source" as "a well-known Democrat, but neutral so far" who was "told by an agent of the Clinton campaign" about the "scandalous information." Novak said he "then checked with another source who is neutral and said he had heard the same thing from Clinton -- Clinton people."

As Media Matters further noted, Sam Stein, political reporter for The Huffington Post, wrote of Novak's Fox & Friends appearance, "So Novak was not privy to the dirt itself, nor did he talk to Clinton's people. Rather, he heard it from someone who had heard it from someone else. Another secondary source, Novak went on to say, claimed to have heard the same thing." During the discussion with Beck, Democratic strategist Peter Fenn stated: "Here's the situation. Bob Novak, who's a friend of mine, I like him a lot, but you know, he doesn't have that -- his sources are usually the Karl Rove sources, the insider Republican sources." But contrary to the unsourced claim in Novak's column and his earlier statements, Beck responded with the false assertion: "He said it was an insider on the Clinton campaign." Fenn then responded, "That's what he says."

[jenmito]

26. As the article states...

"...who was "told by an agent of the Clinton campaign" about the "scandalous information." Novak said he "then checked with another source who is neutral and said he had heard the same thing from Clinton -- Clinton people."

[MethuenProgressive]

28. That's the bit the article is debunking, jenmito.

Debunking is a fun word.

[jenmito]

29. Well...

That's what I get for trying to read while watching "The Ghosts of Abu Ghraib" which I'm doing right now. :hi:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

23. It's not a question of who is right, unless the media presents it that way

And they won't. The media loves the 'all politicians are spoiled children' storyline.

The media demands that Clinton and Obama fight, then when they do the media will self-righteously criticize them for it.

But if both are criticized equally, it's advantage Clinton. That's the media game being played.

It's too bad for Edwards that he has been so negative already... he is poorly positioned to capitalize on front-runner squabbling. Probable advantage Richardson. (He's already a protest vote of some sort. (In the last NH poll 12% supported Richardson, but 0% thought Richardson would win the nomination)

[ripple]

20. It's a double-edged sword for Obama

For every pundit that says he shouldn't attack, there are two more saying that he needs to 'go on the offensive' against Clinton. I think he's playing his cards just right at this stage of the game.

[BeyondGeography]

27. Disagree

People want to see that Obama has some fight in him; when Obama is perceived as O'Bambi, that's when he gets in trouble.