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Would Hillary dare smear Obama? Probably not; but Mark Penn would

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antiimperialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:23 PM
Original message
Would Hillary dare smear Obama? Probably not; but Mark Penn would
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 10:25 PM by antiimperialist
Mark Penn is Hillary's chief campaign strategist and president and founder of the polling firm Penn & Schoen. If you reviewed his past you would realize how far he would go to bring an opposing candidate down.
Penn & Schoen not only violated Venezuelan law in 2004 by releasing exit poll results at 7:30 PM, before voting concluded at 8:00 PM. but also kept the people in the dark about who really carried out the poll--according to the Associated Press, it was the opposition group "Sumate" who conducted it, although Sumate said Penn $ Schoen "supervised" the poll. On top of not disclosing this information, the exit poll ended up having a...36% margin of error! That's right. the poll was off the "yes" and the "no" votes by 18% each. This was no methodology flaw. This was a gross attempt to brainwash the population into believing the results were the opposite of what they really were, given that all international watchdogs found the elections to have been fair.

A similar scenario occurred in Mexico in 2000, when Penn & Schoen violated Mexican law by not disclosing who paid for the poll: candidate Vicente Fox, who won those elections. Mexico's largest newspaper, El Universal, condemned this violation by Penn's firm:
About the hidden sponsers (sic) of his work, Shoen limits himself to say that it is a "plural and representative group of Mexican society, including businessmen who are interested in that there by trustable results on July 2nd. According to the other partner of Shoen, Rob Allyn, the sponsors of the study "asked that their names remain secret, in order to guarantee the independence of the project and also avoid possible reprisals by the Mexican government."

Thus, Misters Schoen and Allyn say they are interested that the results of the elections of July 2nd are democratic, that is to say, clean and transparent.
But they refuse to make transparent the source of the money that pays for their work.
Why the mystery? Is it to protect the sponsors from possible reprisals of the Mexican government? This sounds like a poor excuse that Mexican society cannot swallow. In Mexico many polls with diverse results and with self-identified sponsors have been made. And what has been the problem? To the contrary, public opinion knows who to look out for.


Here is one of the minimum requirements for every pollster as cited by The American Association for Public Opinion Research:


Standards for Minimal Disclosure:
Good professional practice imposes the obligation upon all public opinion researchers to include, in any report of research results, or to make available when that report is released, certain essential information about how the research was conducted. At a minimum, the following items should be disclosed.

1. Who sponsored the survey, and who conducted it.

So far this whole Novak/Obama/Clinton allegations are devoid of specific facts or evidence, and can only be considered speculation at this point; but Penn's past actions reveal a man who would do whatever it takes to catapult his allies to the presidency while sinking his enemies, even if it means violating rules or disregarding democracy. I would not be surprised if Obama's claims turned out to be true.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Of course you are right.
Some political operatives within the Democratic party are renown for the cheese they've brought to politics, and Obama quickly and deftly stepped up in the face of this insidious crap. Kudos to him.
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. "Quickly and deftly"???


Now THAT'S what I call SPIN!:rofl:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Great picture of Obama.
I know it must be disappointing that the smear campaign didn't pan out quite the way you hoped. Better luck next time!

Yipee kaya, mo-fos!
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Yeah he does look GREAT prancing around...
as great as Tancredo does in his hat for fools.





They really look WONDERFUL, mofo!:rofl:

Maybe Tancredo/Obama were separated at birth? Or was it this other guy?

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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. There is no call for this
Stop the childish insults please. Let's clean this forum up just a wee bit, whaddya say?
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. POT=KETTLE=FUCKING BLACK
“…And at a campaign event in Iowa, one of Obama’s aides plopped down next to me and spoke even more bluntly. He wanted to know when reporters would begin to look into Bill Clinton’s postpresidential sex life,” Ambinder writes.


Regarding the unidentified aide wondering about Bill Clinton, LaBolt said, "In no way, shape, or form would anyone who would say such a thing be representing our campaign."

Ambinder, told of the Obama campaign comment said, “I stand by my reporting and the article speaks for itself.”




http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/641088,sweet110708A.article
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. What Does That Mean
"He wanted to know when reporters would begin to look into Bill Clinton’s postpresidential sex life"


Do they want to know if he masturbates?

Is he impotent?

Does he have sex with Hillary?

Is he gay?

Is he bisexual?

Is he celibate?

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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Some would answer NONE OF THE ABOVE!
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Why Doesn't The Aide Just Ask Him Or Have His Boss Ask Him If He's Curious?
DSB
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Gee, what if some aide from another campaign suggested that
a reporter look into the sex life of other spouses of candidates? There'd be hell to pay!

I guess poor old 'heart surgery Bill' is gonna carry that "Hard Dog To Keep On The Porch" tag till the day he dies....! Even if he's giving Old Willy a rest, no one's gonna believe it!
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Both sides are talking trash
because, people being human, there's probably some trash on both sides. There are rumors about Obama, drugs and videotape, and the word about Washington is that Bill has had a few girlfriends since he left office in 2000. The difference here is Novak put something in print that spread across the Internet like wildfire, so Obama had to react. Since the report claimed a link to Clinton, he went after his political opponent instead of a hack journalist.

When, not if, but when the Big Dog's sex life post-2000 comes in for scrutiny, she'll hopefully be able to call bullshit on someone else's campaign as Obama did instead of dealing with specific allegations. If so, you'll no doubt be applauding the craftiness of her response as vividly as you've been panning Obama's.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I Only Post That As Rebuttal Evidence
None of these guys are virgins... It's just not fair to suggest one is pure and the other isn't... I can imagine how much gossip they are privy to and most of it ,like gossip in real life ,probably isn't true or is wildly exaggerated...
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I'm no Obama supporter, but his primary campaign stratigist hasn't tried to undermine elections
legitimate elections in other countries as Hillary's has.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. the more you keep posting that, the more I think it's likely Bill Clinton IS fucking around.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. or just be friends with Vinod Gupta
http://www.infousa.com/
Mailing List - Email, Business, Sales Leads, Consumer - InfoUSA

http://infousa.com/VinGuptaCharitable.htm
Vin Gupta Charitable Contributions

http://ipcommunications.tmcnet.com/news/2007/01/15/250598.htm
CNN Forms Polling Partnership with infoUSA

i must say that he has said that he`s not involved in her campaign anymore....
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Is He Or A Criminal Or Something Or He Just Happens To Be Asian?
DSB
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. He lobbies to expand outsourcing to India and elsewhere. (nt)
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
24. he did get into court about his info usa business practices
his company is used in the cnn polling. he dropped out of actively supporting her earlier this year. i also find her ties to indian outsourcing disturbing.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. "Bill Clinton Science and Technology Center""The Hillary Rodham Clinton Mass Communication Center"nt
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. Political operatives will. Don't be naive that it can't come out
of any of your candidate's camp.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. Obama's self-implosion doesn't need any outside help. Penn would do well to stay out of the way
of the coming train wreck.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. Pretty good job at guilt by association
But if you want to believe Novak at all, Novak said the rumor (its just a rumor) didn't come from anybody on the Clinton campaign. Since Mark Penn is on the Clinton campaign then either it didn't come from him or Novak is lying. If you think Novak is a liar, like I do, why believe Novak's story about Clintons having something on Obama at all?
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antiimperialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. He said it didn't come "directly" from the Clinton campaign
Which is different. It leaves open the possibility that it came "indirectly" from them, whatever that means.
I specified that these are only rumors; but I think Penn would do such thing, judging by his past. And the association to Penn and Schoen is none other than "president". That's a strong association if you ask me. Oh yeah he founded it too.
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
17. BUT OBAMA SURE IS DOING HIS SHARE OF SMEARING
In fact that's all he's in to lately. smear smear smear.
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
23. If "a (wo)man can be known by the company (s)he keeps"...
...what does it say about Hillary that she has someone like Mark Penn as one of her top advisors? :puke:

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