Who should this Iowan caucus for?!

[BushWhacker]

----------------------------------UPDATED: New Rankings from Bushwhacker----------------------------------------------

Alrighty, so here we go. I am currently trying to figure out who I should caucus for this upcoming election. In typical Iowan form, I have yet to make my mind up. Mostly because I think a few of our candidates are somewhat incompetant. We also have great qualities about all of our candidates, however.

I don't follow the majority. I don't like the majority. What I do like is to understand why I should vote for someone based on my issues. It seems the more research I do, the more awkward and confused I become, despite being a graduate in political science and a long time political campaigner. In most caucuses it has been easy to pick - but this one is just damn hard.

So - I'm going to post in my current preference order who I support and one reason why I support the candidate. Feel free to add to
it as to why I should support your candidate. Do be thoughtful in your responses as I am truly trying to make up my mind. P.S. I don't care about polls, I don't care about sex/race/religion/popularity... please do not use these as reasons why. I also don't want to hear why I SHOULDN'T vote for a candidate.

I am 26 years old, going to grad school and homosexual. My parents are both disabled and my father is a veteran. Veterans rights are incredibly important to me as is gay marriage and disability rights. I also tend to be in favor of this war in some ways - but I realize that I can't have my way on this agenda and that's not what this post is about anyway. My long-time boyfriend supports Kucinich primarily and Hillary secondarily.

1) Joe Biden I think these guys are class acts in a lot of ways. I think he has a lot of foreign experience and service to nations around the globe and can provide as excellent dignitaries abroad as well as powerful agents for change domestically. Joe Biden stands out to me. I heard him (as well as all the others) speak and his willingness to commit to ensuring our troops safety is very admirable.

2) Chris Dodd. I differ with Chris in his stance on states deciding whether gay marriage is allowed but I feel he is the most experienced candidate and can accomplish a lot. I also appreciate his knowledge of Spanish and Latino civilizations.

3) Hillary Clinton. This lady has a great appearance and her family has an interesting legacy. I disagreed with her stances on health care 10+ years ago but have looked up to Bill Clinton for a long time. Just being associated with him isn't enough to get my support, however. I like that she seems to support gay rights but am irked of her standing behind the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy, despite her change of heart now.

4) Barack Obama. I feel that Barack is VERY wet behind the ears. With only 2 years in the United States senate under his belt, I worry if he really has the proven ability and leadership to lead our country domestically and internationally. I like his charisma and ability to lead verbally. I think he can do a lot of mending of our nation on the levels of partisanship.

5) Bill Richardson. I think that Richardson's foreign policy is admirable. I like that he has been a governor and has the knowledge to lead. I am VERY disappointed with his foible on the Gay and Lesbian forum on television wherein he stated that being gay was a choice and worry that he may not have a clear understanding of what it means to be gay.

6) Dennis Kucinich. The guy has patience and the ability to continue despite the opposition. His hard-lined stances and ability to stand up for his ideals are also admirable. I do not agree with his concept on how to end the war but I like that he feels free to be himself.

7) John Edwards. Aside from his staffers being rude to me every turn of the road, I feel he has a lot of suavity and the ability to lead. I think he has a good platform but am disappointed by his stance on homosexuals.






So please help me fill in the blanks so I can make the best decision I can. Who are your top three? Who should I caucus for?

THANKS!



p.s. I have been a delegate to conventions and very heavily involved so don't be afraid of "talking over my head."

[aquart]

1. Try this:

Biden/Dodd are tied first place for you. Toss a coin. Heads, Biden. Tails, Dodd. How do you feel about the result of the toss? Happy? Sad? If the result makes you happy, go with it. If it makes you sad, caucus for the other one.

[BushWhacker]

4. Lol clever.

I tried this test and found myself very unhappy. The reason being is because I felt neutrally about both. Maybe its because they are the same person? ;) Thanks for the try though. Can you think of anything else that doesn't involve a coin toss?

[aquart]

14. That was an old psychologists' trick.

Maybe those two aren't your first choice after all.

[BushWhacker]

15. Perhaps

LOL the rest fill me with dread, to be honest. So I guess if its two neutrals or the rest as dreadful, maybe they are, right?

I think I'm really starting to like Biden.

[aquart]

24. You might want to consider

that you could be falling for polish and political expertise...which isn't the worst thing. Biden and Dodd have been in the Senate since I was a sweet girlish thing. They never set the world on fire but neither have they provided scandal enough to oust them. Being female, I'll never vote for Biden myself, but you go with your gut. What does he offer YOU.

Remember, Biden is the tame Democrat on the Sunday pundit shows. He is MUCH more used to fielding dumb questions than the others. Experience really counts here.

Edit: I will never vote for Biden in a primary. Should he, God forbid, be the Democratic candidate, I will honor my word and vote for the Democratic candidate.

[BushWhacker]

27. Women NOT for Biden?

Thank you for your reply again. I'm certain you've seen and heard a lot about what's been going on. I was born in 81, so I don't remember too much from the earlier years. Maybe you can fill me in on a bit? I'm very curious as to why you would not support Biden because you are a female?

"Being female, I'll never vote for Biden myself..."

[aquart]

34. Thomas/Hill hearings. Biden was chairman.

A very bitter wakeup call to American working women. It was when I realized I had no representation in government.

[BushWhacker]

36. Interesting

I took the time to investigate this particular case to see what relevance it could hold. I agree with you, this could be potentially damaging to him and I am dreadfully sorry to you that the system seemingly let women down. That shouldn't be tolerated in the slightest. I am concerned, however, that there appeared to be several loose ends to the entire situation... and some valid points were made on the part of Biden and Ogletree.

Here's one of the parts I found with regard to the lie detector test:

"WAS ANITA HILL'S LIE DETECTOR TEST RELEVANT?

BIDEN: Even though the rules of evidence do not pertain (in congressional hearings), they do give us great insight into the best way to shed light on the truth....Case in point: Lie detector tests. I fought for over 20 years (against) their admission (in court) because every civil libertarian, including every women's group, has argued against them because they're used against people wrongly. There is no conclusive evidence they are accurate.

OGLETREE: Rumors had been circulating rampantly that Anita Hill was unwilling to take one. And that would have been the story --unwillingness to take one....I think the point is that if Anita Hill had failed the lie detector test, I assure you those would have been the first words out of Sen. (Orrin) Hatch's or Sen. (Alan) Simpson's mouths. The reason it was so important is that they were calling her a liar. Now these things aren't used in court very widely, but they are important investigative tools. In fact, every major federal and law enforcement agency uses lie detector tests.

When we made the decision to take the lie detector test, we realized there was no fair process. That they were not going to ask Anita Hill probing questions about what happened. They were going to ask her whether she had had a traffic ticket, maybe who she slept with, who her roommates were. And on the other hand, Judge Thomas said, `I'm not going to talk about my private life at all'....

The real problem is that the rules of evidence were totally irrelevant. I mean you had Alan Simpson and others reading from newspaper clippings or letters from people who weren't under oath. Sen. Hatch apparently enjoyed reading from The Exorcist. Talk about rules of evidence. What is the relevance of that?" (The rest of the article can be found @ http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF1602/Graves/Graves.html)

Now, I am not condoning what occured and I am not passing judgement in the name of the law. I am concerned for women's rights as well and have been an active feminist for some time in my college and high school. (god, over 10 years worth.) I just don't know that this should necessarily make you feel that you had no representation.

According to Project Vote Smart; Biden's record with women seems to be fairly high in most cases (all of these had 80% or higher approval ratings, many in the 90 percentile):

American Association of University Women
Business and Professional Women
Federally Employed Women
National Organization of Women
National Women's Political Caucus

Also, his ratings are over 90% in all of the following (many at 100%)
NARAL
Planned Parenthood
National Family Planning and Reproductive Health Association

Certainly it is hard to say that women do not have representation - and it appears that Biden (as a whole) has supported the efforts of females. I am sorry for the issue with Anita Hill - and I will not downgrade its importance, but perhaps you might give the guy at least a chance and not count him out entirely?

[aquart]

39. I lived thru it.

I lived thru a bunch of middle-aged men throwing up their hands and insisting such horror as she described could not possibly be borne. Therefore, if it were true, she would have resigned. It wasn't what she said, true or not. IT WAS HOW THEY REACTED. Resign? Resign was not an option no matter how bad it got. I had a senior veep at Sterling Bank try to give me to a client as a perk. And kept quiet because I worked for an agency that wanted to please the bank, not me. Nobody had to tell any woman what would happen if we spoke up. We knew. And that's only one story.

If they truly believed she would have resigned if she were being harassed, they were so out of touch with the lives of working women they could not possibly be said to represent me. But if they knew she was telling the truth and thought that it didn't matter...

What Anita Hill said was irrelevant. What her testimony revealed about the thinking and attitudes of our leaders toward working women was.

So Biden can try to buy his soul back any way he wants. You can vote for him if you feel like it. But I won't unless forced by the majority will of the Democratic Party.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

2. Joe Biden! (Best combination of principle and practicality for you)

Between Biden and Dodd, Biden has the personality to maybe, barely, just possibly benefit from your vote.

It's a super long shot, but your vote could be part of a shocking 3rd for Biden.

Hard to see how your vote could be part of a shocking 3rd for Dodd.

[saltpoint]

3. Instead of a specific recommendation on one of our eight candidates,

I think the key hinge here is to offer a thank-you for our decision to register to vote, observe and analyze the candidacies, see which issues graft onto your personal experiences and beliefs, and not least, to participate in the caucuses on January 3rd.

That multi-step process you are performing is not just sound voting. It's enhanced citizenship.

Bravo, and thank you.

I'd love to read your post on caucus night if you get back in time to post on DU.

[RebelSansCause]

5. what exactly is it that you do not like about dennis?

is it his left-leaning stances? or is just the war? i know that the iraq war is not a "just" issue but it seems to me that you do not really do your dislike of him justice. i mean you mention being homosexual and yet you have the man who said being gay is a choice issue above dennis. i believe that kucinich is in full support of equality for gays. (correct me if i am wrong please but i am basically sure)

[BushWhacker]

6. Thanks, and you're right.

You're absolutely right. Dennis does belong a little bit higher up. I guess I look at Dennis Kucinich as being unable to A) win during the general election and B) being unable to lead. I think he is far too devisive and that is an issue unto itself. There's something about him I just can't seem to overcome. You are absolutely right, though, his issues on gay rights are quite impressive and I do feel I should move him above Richardson, save for Richardson's obvious ability to lead.

This is an important point. Just because I am gay, and gay rights are an issue that is important to me, I do not base my vote solely on this issue as many gay voters may.

[BushWhacker]

7. BUMP

bumpity bump

[BushWhacker]

41. Perhaps a bumping is in order

Bump to your face :)

[RebelSansCause]

16. wait a second

doesn't the inability to win a general election complete contrast with your "i don't follow the majority" declaration. i completely understand if the positions that DK supports you do not support and thus you choose not to caucus for him. democracy and all, ya know? :P not like the guy who started that dennis should just resign thread.

with that being said, it is also HIGHLY doubtful that Dodd will get the nomination. DK is quite divisive, i agree. this is because he speaks from the heart and speaks the truth. he does not play pandering games. he worries the corporate interests which controls because he talks about their controlling power and the fact that the american Constitution is being taken for a ride. by caucusing for him, you make your own statement.

i think that dennis would rather be the candidate who puts the contrasting point out there rather than the guy who changes his opinion just to garner more votes. to me, he is a man i can look up to, someone who is nearly bereft of double-talk. (yes he changed his opinions on abortion, i would not support him (pretty much) if he had not) DK's "inability to lead" comes from the fact that he believes strongly in America, in everything it has ever stood for, that people should be treated fairly and equally, that this is a government for the people and by the people, that it is time to put an end to fear-mongering, war-mongering, corporate power, the benefit of the rich at the expense of the poor, etc etc... in short, he is what we should be looking for in politics. the unfortunate rubber stamp method that arises out of our 2 party system is deplorable. no matter what you decide i hope you take into account the principles that this nation was founded upon and how much we have strayed from them lately. look at the "top candidates" and ask yourself, do i really want to support someone who stands for free trade that continues to drain away american jobs, someone who supports don't ask, don't tell as military policy, someone who might be putting the interests of some multi-billion conglomerate ahead of the venerable document set down as our bedrock, someone who does not talk of raising the cap on how much income goes to social security, someone who gets McClurkined, or no, do i want someone who is true to the conceptualization of what is america.

i wish you good luck in this process, the fact that you are an iowan and i am a new yorker makes me jealous around caucus time. you can have such a large effect, just by speaking up for what you believe in. it is so much harder for me.

[BushWhacker]

19. I don't think he could "swing."

I still believe it is important to not base the caucus decision off of who can win the caucus/primary season. Yet I do want to ensure that the person who does win can bring independents to the fore, as is the process with primary -> general election platform swing.

[RebelSansCause]

21. i do not believe he will win either

but that does not mean i will not vote for him. i simply vote my conscience, or else i do not believe i could look at myself in the mirror. but then again, iowa is very close, i do not want to see the Corprawhore Shilldevil walk away with it. that would ensure our impending doom. :scared:

[BushWhacker]

23. hehe now now, be nice.

I think I should rearrange my ranks a smidge.

[ElizabethDC]

8. Just so you know, Hillary is for repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell

I tried to find a link: this article mentions it: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1598653,00.html but I'm still looking on her website to see if I can find her more detailed comments on it.

[BushWhacker]

10. For it before she was against it.

At what point did she begin stating she would repeal it and why hasn't she done so prior to announcing she'd run for President? It makes me wonder why now she's against it when she was for it when it happened?

[ElizabethDC]

30. She's been speaking out against DADT since at least '99

I was trying to find some of her more recent comments on it, but this did come up:

The Clinton administration policy, which reversed a half-century ban on homosexuals in the military, has been at the center of a heated debate since it was initiated in 1994.

Hillary Clinton, running for the U.S. Senate in New York, called the policy a failure last week. President Clinton said over the weekend that he agreed with her.

"It's out of whack now, and I don't think any serious person can say it's not," Clinton told CBS Radio.

link: http://archives.cnn.com/1999/US/12/13/pentagon.gays/index.html

And here's a link to her (and the other candidates) talking about DADT at the Logo forum in August (and explaining her change in attitude toward it):

http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/2007/08/10/the-candidates-weigh-in-on-dont-ask-dont-tell/

[kad7777]

9. JOE BIDEN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtGCaqOdIJ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUC8LeZ1hM4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HcXkLbRIWw

[incapsulated]

11. Biden or Dodd

But Biden is a comer right now, if you want to jump on that bandwagon, it's rolling.

[incapsulated]

12. Oh, FYI, Clinton supports the abolishment of Dont Ask, Don't Tell

Just to clear that one up.

[BushWhacker]

17. For it before she was against it?

How does she explain supporting it when it was proposed?

[incapsulated]

20. Remember when it was initially proposed, though

Almost the minute Bill took office this turned into a Republican created "major issue". It was a compromise to get them off his back.

Honestly, I have no problem with her saying, look, it didn't work and we need to scrap it.

I doubt most of the candidates running were against it before either.

Hillary has a very good record on gay rights, for whatever that is worth to you.

[BushWhacker]

22. Its worth a lot.

I appreciate that very much. I am not trying to crucify her. I just really worry about a lot of double talking. THat hurt us a lot in the general election in 2004 (whether real or imagined) and I can see that coming around here as well. I think Hillary is a classy woman. I think she would be a good leader - I just want her to get her message on straight. She wants to have a conversation, well I'd like to be involved and I'd like to understand what she's trying to say. Please don't take offense.

[incapsulated]

25. Don't worry, I'm not offended

I mean, Hillary is fine with me, but I'm not actively supporting anyone. But this issue is one that most people were definitely not ready to deal with in the early 90's and few people realized what a disaster it would turn out to be. Only the very, very brave came out for gays openly serving at that time. Now, they can and she does.

But yeah, her record is a good one. Most of them are but I wouldn't worry that she is going to waffle on this particular issue.

[monmouth]

13. Joe Biden would be your man...Experienced, intelligent, knows his stuff....

[jillan]

18. Biden - just read this board tonite!

Biden will get this country back on track and be able to get this country working together again.

[Audio_Al]

26. Wow! BushWhacker, you sound like such an interesting and devoted young man.

You will have the first chance to have a voice in next November's outcome.

I am old enough to be your grandfather, but if I were you, I'd go with Joe Biden for many of the reasons already mentioned here. He is a very interesting and capable guy and I think he would make a great president. Whether or not the folks around you agree, you could certainly feel good about supporting him in an initial caucus.

And I would be very interested in getting any kind of a report you can post either to the Iowa forum or to GD-Politics wherever it should go.

The states we've lived in are all also-rans in this choice. Massachusetts wasn't so bad, but here in Oregon, where our primaries are not until May 2008, it's like being on the sidelines for the whole football game and then the coach puts you in to run one play before the clocks runs out on the game. Oh, the score? It's 54 to 0.

Ho, hum. Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, super Tuesday... and then it's really all decided, isn't it?

Thanks for your comments.

Respectfully,

Audio Al

[BushWhacker]

28. You're a neat fella.

I like you. Thank you for recognizing the amount of excrutiating effort I put into deciding who I should caucus for. Its not a very easy choice for me. It seems like as soon as I make my mind up on someone, something else happens to really inspire me. Its very infuriating and, while I appreciate being first in the nation and would never want to lose that ability, it holds a lot of pressure for us (those of us who actually pay attention.)

Maybe I'm paying too much attention and worrying a bit too much.

[Audio_Al]

32. Thanks. The good news is that you are not alone, although you are one of the first states.

You set a benchmark and then help to make it happen. If not, you end up rallying around the person who is chosen. We all know that we MUST get the Republicans out of office by January 2009, and we must work on that goal above all.

I was firmly for Howard Dean during primary election season -- I went to a lot of Farmers' Markets in the summertime and handed out his brochures in the summer heat. However, my wife had reservations because of HIS wife not joining in the fray -- she still thinks that his wife should have been more in evidence and that was my wife's gut feeling.

Then, the whole thing tanked because of one yell... horrible, fearful... how did that happen?

But, we rallied around Kerry/Edwards in 2004 and there are still so many people here in Oregon with their K/E bumper stickers on.

It's a new day. Fulfill your duties as a citizen. Then, don't worry about it. Come home and hug your friend and family. You did your duty, at least until election day.

Respectfully,

Audio Al

[Think82]

29. BIDEN BIDEN BIDEN BIDEN BIDEN

oh... and... BIDEN!

[BushWhacker]

31. lol

Well, I take it you are a Biden supporter.

Can you tell me what you like about him in particular?

[Think82]

33. let's see...

1.His federalism plan for Iraq, got 75 votes in the senate, the only practical solution to our biggest problem. He came out with it two years ago, got shot down, last month it gets 75 votes in the senate (INCLUDING Hill and Dodd, Obama did not vote). Too bad Bush won't enact it (it was non-binding, but still)
2. Foreign policy expertise in general -- HEAD AND SHOULDERS the most important issue in next 8 years. Knows foreign leaders personally. He PREDICTED the Pakistan crisis before it happened 2 weeks ago. Instrumental in Bosnia. Is the uncontested foreign policy expert in the dems.
3. Honesty, integrity, straight shooter. Most knowledgeable of all the issues.
4. "I agree with Joe" - most common phrase heard in debates.
5. Most electable. Already on the Biden blog there are disaffected republicans coming in droves to say they hope he gets the nomination. He has pushed through the CRime Bill and Violence Against Women act by bringing republicans over to his side. HE has a long history of this.
6. Best debater against any repub.
7. Long record of pragmatic left-center views.
8. Wife is a teacher, has a BOLD education plan.
9. Will be the President who can BEST unite the country to execute health care and energy reform.
10. Best sense of humor of all the candidates.
11. 1972 - proposed the first public financing bill
12. 99th on the "welahtist senators list" does not own any stock.
13. has overcome profound loss, with the death of his wife, and had a near death-experience in 88.
14. While he has spent 35 years as a senator, he commutes everyday to Delaware. So he is both "savvy" and at the same time an "outsider"
14. Good -looking dude. all around great guy. I have a serious man-crush on him and I am a devoutly heterosexual male.

Need I go on?

[rjones2818]

35. For once...

Listen to the boyfriend! A) He's right and B) it's a good thing to do every so often! :evilgrin:

Go Dennis! :woohoo:
http://dennis4president.com
Choose Peace!

[BushWhacker]

37. *chuckles* I do that most of the time.

Its a survival mechanism.

So why do you support Kucinich?

[rjones2818]

38. Single Payer, anti-war, Pro Gay Marriage, WGA, Pro-Union

(and a member), etc., and didn't sell MuniLight when he was mayor! That was when I became a fan.

Check out his issues page at http://www2.kucinich.us and see what you think. Then, once you're converted (!) go to http://dennis4president.com to get campaign news (donate either there or through the DU ActBlue site) and then go to http://action.dennis4president.com and get involved with the campaign!

Go Dennis! :woohoo:
http://dennis4president.com
Choose Peace!

[David Zephyr]

40. Vote your heart and your head.

This is the most maddening race I've seen, perhaps ever because I find myself cheering for alll our candidates. They all have their shortcomings and they all have their particular strengths. And they all are better than any of the G.O.P. choices.

Please let us/me know how you decide when you do.

You are not alone in still weighing the choices. It's a great crop.

[whirlygigspin]

42. for what it's worth...

I first met Joe Biden 25 years ago, in the halls of congress; I couldn't stand the man. I thought he was an arrogant womanizing poser who thought way too much of himself.

For years I would just scoff when I heard his name, bah. then years later came the Anita Hill fiasco, not one of his best moments...that was a long time ago, but something strange happened over the next few decades; life's realities, sometimes harsh and unforgiving, tempered him, he got up and came back, less brash, more human yet more sure of those basic things that matter most in our lives.

Forget all the spin about the candidates, just look at their lives.

Biden takes the train everyday from his home to DC, he never lived in DC so he could be with his family; he never bought stock --to avoid conflicts of interest; his mom lives with him, and he enjoys that fact. --Many people love to spew on about family values, few live them--Biden does.

Biden has never met with a lobbiest, that is an amazing fact, in a nation that continually bemoans overriding 'special interests' and money in politics.

...for what it's worth.

[David Zephyr]

45. Thank you for a thoughtful, informative and helpful post, whirlygigspin.

You should write an OP in this forum expanding on what you wrote.

If there is an "Abraham Lincoln" among our group of candidates, it's Joe Biden. Like Lincoln, Biden has taken the blows that life has dealt him and that the political world has dealt him and grown from it, become a better man for it, and most admirably, become more genuine in a world and day of plastic, packaged candidates.

I also cared not for Joe Biden back in the 1980's. I didn't dislike him, but the man that we see today is one who took the admonition of Socrates seriously: "The unexamined life is not worth living." The Joe Biden that I see today is a man who is his own worst critic, who truly has made himself a better man. And I like that. A lot.

[youthere]

43. Well..

I can't tell you who to caucus for, but I can tell you WHY this Iowa woman is caucusing for Joe Biden. He has a proven track record getting things done in Washington.I'm so sick of the partisan bickering that keeps this nation deadlocked. I'm looking for a true "uniter" (not GWB's type of uniting either). No one is better on foreign policy, and the next presidency is going to be nothing but foreign policy.
No one has a better plan for Iraq, social security, healthcare or education...and by better I mean realistic and workable. Biden has tireslessly supported veterans and the military (a very important issue to me as well), more so than any other candidate.
If I had to describe him in one word, it would be "practical". The current administration has us so deep in the "doo" that we can't afford to replace him with idealistic "pie in the sky" campaign promises. We need someone who can hit the ground running and get something accomplished, and I believe Biden can (and will) do that.
I like several of the other candidates, but Biden is the only one I trust to handle the mess we're currently in. I always love to hear my fellow Iowans examining candidates!Good luck with your candidate, whomever you might choose.

[BushWhacker]

44. There can be only one :)

God there are a lot of us biden supporters on here aren't there?

I really think what I'll do is analyze the situation when I walk into the caucus - and whoever is closest to the 15% I'll sit with - whether its Biden or Dodd. They are such strong candidates. At times I wish there were only one of them running.