Remember when everyone jumped on Obama for calling his wife his "girl"?

[jenmito]

Well, I hope you same people will now jump on Bill Clinton for doing the same exact thing when he said, "Looks good for a 60-yr-old girl, I think."

[geek tragedy]

1. It was just a couple of cranks who did that. n/t

[jenmito]

3. I remember threads going on and on about it,

but you could be right. Maybe it was the same couple people harping on it over and over.

[MADem]

2. Gee, no, I don't remember that at all!!!!! nt

[ronnykmarshall]

25. Neither do I

[peace13]

4. Hell, Hillary called herself a girl at a debate as I recall.

What can I say. A rose by any other name....

[jenmito]

7. I know. And I pointed that out to her supporters, but they still bashed Obama for saying it

about his wife. :shrug:

[ronnykmarshall]

26. You did?

Can you provide the links to this horrible travesty? Or is this just your daily "let me say something shitty about Hillary and/or her supports" thread?

[Stuckinthebush]

57. No, many of them agreed

it was stupid of her to say it too.

[IA_Seth]

5. Seriously?

People were upset that Obama called his wife his girl?

The same people not familiar with vernacular I'd guess? Calling your girl your girl is pretty common I thought? I call friends my "boys" sometimes, does that mean I am insulting them as well?

:eyes:

[jenmito]

6. Yes. I couldn't believe it, either...

but I was there saying it was a compliment, saying in a contest between his wife and Bill, his money's on his girl. People were calling the remark sexist and other things. I pointed out that Hillary called herself a girl, but they said a MAN saying it is different.

[aquart]

20. He called his wife "my girl." That's an endearment.

Geesh.

[HuckleB]

8. It wouldn't shock me.

Today, these boards have threads where some DU posters are comparing Obama to Reagan. It appears that some people are hell bent on ranting and raving about candidates they don't like, no matter how ludicrous or small minded.

[MNDemNY]

12. Like this thread?

[HuckleB]

19. LOL!

I have an angry stalker.

[wndycty]

21. It was so bad that the Temptations were accused of being misogynistic for singing "My Girl"

Misogynistic I'm serious. It was bad.

[jenmito]

23. Thank you! I'm glad SOMEONE remembers it!

:hi:

[Stuckinthebush]

53. We won't rehash this, but it was clueless of him to do it

There are a number of threads discussing it.

Michelle Obama is not a girl. She's a woman.

The critical theorists were trying to make a point about ingrained misogyny in our society. If Bill O'Reilly had been the one to call his wife "girl" then we'd be all over it. But one of our own? Oh, no...let's not subject him to critical analysis.

Oh, well.

[wndycty]

65. Its funny you take off on Obama about this but are ignoring that Bill Clinton. . .

. . .called the lady who can be the first female president of the United States "girl." Oh the hypocritical double standard.

[Stuckinthebush]

68. Absolutely not

I'm doing no such thing...look up at other posts by me.

Clinton was doing the same thing. It is misogynistic language.

Look, I don't have a horse in the race yet and I like both Obama and Hillary. This is a discussion of how we use certain language without analyzing that language.

[jenmito]

69. It was endearing not clueless.

I'm sure Michelle was happy to hear what he said about her.

[Stuckinthebush]

It was clueless

and we are all clueless when it comes to misogynistic language.

We all do it. The point is not to say that Obama is unfit to be president or that he is a moron. It was simply an academic discussion about language.

Calling a grown woman a girl is more accepted than calling a grown man a boy. You can call it a term of endearment but it is rooted in societally accepted misogyny.

[jenmito]

72. I'm not going to try to change your mind. And you won't change mine.

You have your opinion and I have mine.

[Stuckinthebush]

75. Indeed

[cuke]

9. No, I don't

but I suspect you're trying to use one or two posters to smear the entire group

[jenmito]

10. OK, not "everyone," but it was a pretty big deal here.

[cuke]

13. Got any links?

or am I supposed to just believe something I heard on the Internet?

[jenmito]

22. If I can do a search to find the threads, I will.

[ronnykmarshall]

27. Search what?

I wouldn't even know what key words to use.

[cuke]

29. So how's the search going?

[jenmito]

32. Here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3620904#3620954

[cuke]

34. That's it?

The "everyone" you mention is ONE poster

You are over-reacting.

[jenmito]

35. It was not only one poster. Did you READ the posts on that thread?

You were taking part on the thread, too...

[cuke]

36. I didn't read every post, but I only saw one poster complaining about it

Others spoke about the various ways in which the term "girl" was used and which were acceptable and which were not. My comment was about the use of the term "girl" in the workplace and had nothing to do with Obama. My response was in response to another post that mentioned the workplace issue and class. I said that the female lawyers where I worked got upset by it, but the support staff (ie clerks, admin. assts. etc) did not mind it at all.

One poster. His name starts with an "s". No one else that I see is making an issue of it. The overwhelming majority of respondents in that thread had no problem with it, myself included

[jenmito]

37. Then I suggest you read every post.

I took a heck of a lot of time to find that thread. It was more than one person.

[cuke]

38. I suggest you back your own argument up

and not pawn it off on me.

[jenmito]

39. There were at least two others on that thread...

one that started with an "l" and one that started with an "M". And look at my post #3 on this thread.

[cuke]

40. OK, I see the two others

They have one post each. BFD. Every camp has it loonies, even Clinton's. There's one (name starts with a T) that I've called out more than once.

Obama could piss gold and someone would complain. As a Clinton supporter, my advice is not to get so worked up over such a small #. Like the poor, the loonies will always be with us.

[jenmito]

43. three more...

with a "t" with a "G" and with an "N" also said using "my girl" is wrong. Yes, you chimed in, too, like you said, even though it wasn't directly talking about Obama. It WAS about using that term.

[cuke]

45. I stand by what I said

It is inappropriate in the workplace, which is what G says. t is a bit unclear. He seems to be arguing that it's OK and that it's a bit republican to insist that "girl" is always inappropriate

And NJ is definitely on your side of this. He is saying that he's glad his wife doesn't get upset by being called "girl"

I think you are over-reacting.

[jenmito]

48. They were making an issue out of it...

and NJ was saying his wife DOES feel it's offensive. If he called his wife his "girl," he'd get an earful. She WOULD be upset.

[cuke]

54. I disagree

And MJ quoted someone else, and then said "I'm glad i'm not married to your wife"

[jenmito]

62. Oh, OK...:

You're right about MJ. He quoted S. :hi:

[MethuenProgressive]

42. That's "everybody jumped"? That's quite an overstatement

:shrug:

[jenmito]

44. See post #3. (And I found 6 people.)

[cuke]

47. You're wrong about at least three of them

You're right about two of them. One is unclear and the other three are definitely not dissing Obama over this

[jenmito]

49. It was in relation to what Obama said, though.

But I'll meet you half way.

[wndycty]

71. Here is my favorite post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3620904&mesg_id=3621179

[jenmito]

73. Yeah, that was a good one.

:D I just don't understand the mindset of that person, but I guess some people can't understand ours, either.

[incapsulated]

11. I believe I said it was stupid

And rejected the whole "it's a misogynistic slur" nonsense.

[jenmito]

28. At least you remember it.

[Stuckinthebush]

55. It was stupid

and it was misogynistic.

[1monster]

14. Nope. I don't. So what> I assume that both of them calling

their wives their "girls" is a term of affection that goes back to the beginning of their relationship when they could legitmately refer to them as their girl or their girlfriend...

No biggie.

And to respond to anyone who did denigrate them for calling their wives their girls, is to take flame bait and deserve the minor burns you got from the flame baiter.

edit for grammatical clarity

[sam sarrha]

15. he has been spending a lot of time in harlem....

:shrug:

[Lucinda]

16. I missed that one.

People jumped Hillary for using the term too. Silly stuff all the way around. I think it's sweet they refer to their "girls" that way.

[polichick]

17. What??? I thought Oprah was his girl! nt

[sam sarrha]

18. with a wet brain alcoholic pResident and his torture monkys try'n to start ww3.. who cares

[ronnykmarshall]

24. Everyone? Really?

Can you provide some links?

I don't even remember this.

[Eric J in MN]

30. No. NT

NT

[SaveOurDemocracy]

31. No ... nice try though.

[ecstatic]

33. i love that pic! nt

[MethuenProgressive]

41. No, never heard of that one. Was that on DU?

And even so, what's the big deal?

[jenmito]

46. Yes...right here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3620904#3620954

The "big deal" is I didn't see ONE person object to BILL using the same term.

[Clintonista2]

52. So you pick up one single post within a thread

To prove that "everyone" was up in arms over that?

[jenmito]

56. If you'd read the thread, you'd see it's more than one single post.

See post #3.

[Stuckinthebush]

50. Clinton said that?

That was stupid. Hillary is a woman not a girl.

Perhaps she can say he looks good for a 60 year old boy. Doesn't really work that way does it?

[jenmito]

58. At least you're consistent. Yes he did. n/t

[Stuckinthebush]

61. Yes I am

But the thing is that saying a statement is misogynistic does not equate with saying that the person is a bigoted piece of crap. I and others are simply saying that our progressive politicians need to be aware of their speech. I think they'd appreciate one pointing it out.

I still like Obama and Hillary. It's just an observation.

[jenmito]

64. I disagree 100%.. It's a term of endearment. Not misogynistic at ALL.

And Obama was saying his wife could beat Bill in a debate. How can you seriously think he was being misogynistic?

[Stuckinthebush]

67. See that's the problem here...

I'm saying that the language was misogynistic not Obama.

We live in a society that regularly uses misogynistic language...that was the crux of the discussion. It's simply critical social theory.

[jenmito]

70. The language was endearing. Keep it in context.

The way he used it was definitely not misogynistic. If someone used it in a degrading way, then that's another story.

[Stuckinthebush]

74. Absolutely not

Again, I'm not saying that Obama hates women. I'm not saying he thinks Michelle is inferior. I'm saying that he (and all of us) use language differently when we are talking about a woman than when we are talking about a man. Michelle would never call Barak "her boy" as a term of endearment. Why? Because social standards have taught her that men - especially men in power positions - should never be called "boy" in any circumstance.

It's cool - we disagree on this and that's fine. But I firmly believe that from a critical perspective the language can be considered misogynistic even as a term of endearment.

[jenmito]

76. Ever hear the song "Let's Hear It For the Boy"?

It's about a grown man. Women DO use that term.

[Stuckinthebush]

77. Yes I've heard it

and I don't think you can use a popular song from 1983 as evidence that women use "boy" all the time.

Again, it's cool that we disagree here. Critical gender, critical race and critical class theory are my areas of study. I'm getting into academic discussions and not going after Barak on this.

[MADem]

79. Boy is problematic if you aren't caucasian. That's a different dynamic, there.

But boy, boyo, boyfriend...they're used. Out with the boys, playing cards with the boys--the girls are meeting the boys for drinks, boys of summer, dough boys, beach boys, whipping boys...there might be a subset of society that takes auto-offense, but context IS everything.

A bunch of FauxSnooze clowns have a show called the Beltway Boys. They're hardly 'ceding power' through use of the term, they're implying that they are in a special club.

Recent examples, in political context:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/08/halberstam200708

The History Boys
In the twilight of his presidency, George W. Bush and his inner circle have been feeding the press with historical parallels: he is Harry Truman—unpopular, besieged, yet ultimately to be vindicated—while Iraq under Saddam was Europe held by Hitler. To a serious student of the past, that's preposterous. Writing just before his untimely death, David Halberstam asserts that Bush's "history," like his war, is based on wishful thinking, arrogance, and a total disdain for the facts.
by David Halberstam ...


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20071106/political-play-of-the-day/

Play of the Day: McCain's Poster Boys

BOONE, Iowa — Republican John McCain hopes to get a bit of campaign help from some unlikely foreign leaders _ Hugo, Mahmoud and Vladimir.

Oversized photos of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Russian President Vladimir Putin accompany the presidential candidate as he seeks to remind voters that the U.S. must push for energy independence....

Clinton rallies against "all-boy's club" politics
WELLESLEY, Massachusetts (Reuters) - Democrat Hillary Clinton urged women voters on Thursday to rally behind her campaign against "the boys club of presidential politics" two days after male rivals attacked her repeatedly at a debate.

Social/literary/musical context:

http://books.google.com/books?id=cig1oBHXy3MC&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+Boy+I+love&sig=ePi42Cgt5ATTU_pCmfqqLqawFfg

The Boy I Love, by Marion Husband

Love That Boy (2003)
Film
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0328078/

She's in Love with the Boy - Trisha Yearwood
http://www.romantic-lyrics.com/ls56.shtml

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG_qCdhlVik

Loverboy remix...

[Clintonista2]

51. I don't remember that.

[jenmito]

59. Here's the thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3620904#3620954

[Clintonista2]

63. Honestly, I really doubt a couple of posts mean anything. Nobody remembers this.

I think you're trying to make an issue out of nothing.

[jenmito]

66. It was 5 posters...one here defending his comments on the subject.

It is what it is.

[Stuckinthebush]

78. Yep

Defending and discussing

It is what it is

[Catherine Vincent]

60. No. n/t