Terry McAuliffe has been talking to Nader

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0402/20/nfcnn.03.html

<snip>MCAULIFFE: Well, I have talked to Ralph Nader several times myself. I went to lunch with Ralph Nader, spent several hours with Ralph Nader.

I wanted to convey to Ralph Nader that, you know, George Bush has been disastrous on the issues that mean so much to him. And if he were to get in the race again, he could pull votes away from the Democratic nominee. And I don't want Ralph Nader's legacy that he got George Bush for eight years in this country.

So I'm hoping he doesn't run. This is about what he stands for, the issues that matter to him.

And look at New Hampshire. We lost in New Hampshire by 7,000 votes in 2000, and 22,000 votes went to Ralph Nader. Well, clearly, if those voters come back to the Democratic side, which you saw in the primary there, where 47 percent of the votes were Independents, that will help us.

We need Ralph Nader supporting the Democratic nominee, energizing people. George Bush has been a disaster on the issues that matter to him.

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[Mairead]

1. I'd call McAuliffe clueless, but I'm sure he's well-clued-up.

Simply lacking in any sort of feeling for people who want something besides Bush Lite.

The DLC can hardly lose. As long as the corporatocracy wins, it hardly matters what label it has on.

[jpgray]

8. As two shameless hypocrites, Terry and Ralph should get along fine. (nt)

[terryg11]

2. hey, I agree

I'm one of those who wussed out in '00 and voted for Gore even though my heart was in a big way with Nader.

But, I'm not going to be demonizing anyone who breaks rank and votes for the candidate of their choice. I will do all that I can to dissuade them from tht course of action this year but it's still their vote and can do with it what they wish. Hopefully the dem candidate appeals to the independents out there

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. I'm glad he did.

It indicates MacAuliffe at least TRIED to appeal to Nader for those WORST affected by Bush's scorched earth, air, and consumer policies.

[Cocoa]

5. I'm glad too

it was probably a hopeless cause. The fact that Nader would even think of running shows that he probably wouldn't listen to reason.

But McAuliffe is correct for trying. What could it hurt?

[Guaranteed]

4. Hey, Terry-

Grow a pair. Then people'll vote for your guy.

Take some responsibility for your OWN actions.

[aquanut]

10. How can they take responsibility for misguided voters?

All it takes is a few thousand (or even a few hundred) misguided souls in the wrong state to say "Gee, I know I don't like Bush. And I don't really care for Kerry . I guess I'll vote for Nader." and what do we get: Four more years of Bush!

That isn't to say that anyone who voted for Nader in 2000 was miguided. But surely to do so again in 2004 would be.

[Tinoire]

12. It's amazing how simple it is to be honest, isn't it?

Bur McAuliffe and the DLC prefer to try to hold votes hostage because they perfectly well know that the guys they're trying to foist on the people aren't far enough from Bush for enough people to appreciate a difference.

The absolute worse is that they KNEW this was coming and they still got rid of Dean. Still marginalized Kucinich.

I have NO sympathy for the frenzied hand-wringing. It's not like this is a surprise that couldn't have been avoided with a little emphasis on fair play from the DNC.

[candy331]

20. Tinoire you hit the nail on the head

I agree wholeheartedly with your words. Wise persons see the calamity beforehand and take steps to avoid it before the crash. Seems like the experienced ones failed to plan so the plan may fail.

[Tinoire]

22. Good summation!

"Seems like the experienced ones failed to plan so the plan may fail"

[shance]

43. Candy and Tinoire - sterling points***

Thanks.

[LandOLincoln]

24. Nader DELIBERATELY threw the 2000 election to Bush,

and announced his intentions in an Outside magazine interview no longer available online. I printed out a copy four years ago, and if I ever manage to find it I'll publish it in full on this forum. I'm also going to call Outside and ask them to make sure that interview is made available online immediately--although I expect they're 'way ahead of me on that one.

In the meantime, here's some reading that should keep everyone occupied for a few minutes at least: :D


http://dir.salon.com/news/col/cona/2000/10/24/nader/index.html

http://www.soc.qc.edu/Staff/levine/Ralph%20Nader%20as%20Suicide%20Bomber.htm

http://www.bushwatch.com/nader.htm

http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm

[Tinoire]

32. Deliberately? You mean the Supreme Court had nothing to do with it?

The Reagan Democrats who voted for Bush had nothing to do with it?

The conservative swing voters the Democrats are always chasing had nothing to do with it?

The Arab Americans angry at certain of the Democratic Party's stands had nothing to do with it?

The Democrats who voted for Buchanan had nothing to do with it?

The over 16,000 votes Diebold disappeared in Florida 2000 had nothing to do with it?

Telling Haitians & other immigrants that the election was on the 8th had nothing to do with it?

Massive voter purges?

Military ballots received after the deadline?

Hanging chads?

Bus-loads of bussed in Republican operatives?

Katherine Harris?

On edit: People who couldn't even be bothered to vote?

Downright "naive' people who voted for Bush and now want the Democratic party to cater to their selfish needs had nothing to do with it?

===

Naw... all of that had nothing to do with it. Let's blame Nader, it takes so much less effort.

[LandOLincoln]

34. Once again: Nader DELIBERATELY threw the 2000

election to George Bush, and announced his intention to do so well ahead of time.

Why don't you take the time to check out the links I posted, instead of firing back the usual kneejerk defense of that corrupt and duplicitous son of a bitch?



(edit for spelling)

[Tinoire]

35. The knee-jerk stuff is your links. We re-hashed those for 3+ years

Now why don't you move on to the other corrupt and duplicitous sons of bitches? The ones in our own party would be a good start. Nader doesn't owe the Democratic party squat and it's high time people looking for an easy way out started examining why we really lost the election.

[LandOLincoln]

36. I'm sorry to have to report that I missed your

"re-hashing" of my (apparently) tired old links, so perhaps you could enlighten me as to your conclusions?

[Tinoire]

37. No problem

My conclusions are right here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=369577&mesg_id=370384&page=

[kiahzero]

41. How'd they "foist" candidates upon us again?

I keep track of current events... so far, I believe 17 states have voted - the voters of those states have spoken their minds. How is that the DLC foisting a candidate upon us?

Face it, Tinoire. The vast majority of voters who have voted don't agree with you.

[denverbill]

6. Who will McAuliffe blame if Kerry loses?

Say Kerry loses by 2%, and Nader (Independent) and the Greens together only poll 1%. Are you STILL going to blame the Greens and Nader, who amounted to only 1% of the vote and .5% of the eligible voting population? Or are you going to blame yourself for not giving 50% of the population enough of a reason to give a damn.

Frankly, I don't think McAuliffe cares. He's raking in dough personally either way.

[lostnfound]

7. If you don't want Ralph running, offer him your OWN job, Terry.

At least maybe we could have a 2-party system again.

Seriously, the way they suck up to corporate lobbies, and tolerate an assault on civil liberties, they've left us with little to distinguish themselves from the other side of the aisle.

Let the people lead -- for that matter, help clear a path for them to lead, standing up for their right to be heard -- and get out of the way.

[Progress]

9. Why should he?

I don't want Nader heading up the DNC, and frankly I think McAuliffe did the right thing meeting with Nader. If Nader wanted to, he could use his potential candidacy as leverage to effect some real change within the Party structure, but obviously it's just about Nader's ego. At least Nader can't argue that the Party refused to even hear him out.

[lostnfound]

42. I was mostly joking. I just think McAuliffe shouldn't whine about Nader..

because I think McAuliffe has done as much or more damage to the Democratic party.

And philosophically, it just annoys me that some think they have the right to tell others not to run or tell others that they should drop out.

[absyntheNsugar]

11. Great, from one egomaniac to another

Nader is dangerous for this country, he's dangerous to the left and he's dangerous to litigation.

Going after the deep pocketed Corvair was soooo noble, especially when shallow pocketed VW made much more dangerous cars at the time.

Nader is a menace!

Pass the word.

ON EDIT: Who's up for protesting Nader at his rallys? I'm there!

[Hav]

13. ..

If McAuliffe had attacked Bush because of the AWOL issue before the Primary with its emotions and if he had tried to persuade Nader not to run, a large majority of the people here would have applauded him.
I sure as hell was glad that he did attack Bush, many were not because he used Kerry to contrast him with Bush.
We talk about tutu-Democrats but we tear apart the ones who actually do some attacking because of our own agenda.

[Snivi Yllom]

14. obviousy Terry and Ralph left the Lunch...

Terry thought "well that went well",

Ralph thought "I've got you by the balls again you sell out"

[mmonk]

15. I for one hope he succeeds

Four more years is going to be bad for someone in America whether it be civil rights, war, debt, and possibly more violence against Americans. I'm giving no quarter and sacrificing nothing for ideological purity. We need a change in Washington now.

[ShimokitaJer]

16. McAuliffe really doesn't get it

He's taking the same tack with Nader that they did in 2000: They insist Nader support the Democrats because Bush is dangerous, NOT because the Democratic party supports the issues Nader cares about.

It reminds me of my students begging me to change their grade because they really NEED it, not because the DESERVE it.

If McAuliffe really doesn't want Nader to run, the answer is simple. Put language in the Democratic party platform about providing universal health care, guaranteeing a living wage, removing corporate personhood, supporting alternative energy sources, and writing language on working conditions, wages, and human rights into NAFTA. And while we're at it, how about a statement condemning the use of American military power unilaterally and pre-emptively.

Is it really so hard for the Democratic Party to embrace these ideals?

[SEAburb]

17. I hope the DNC takes their gloves off against Nader this time.

It was a mistake for them to use the ignore strategy last time.

They should come out and paint Nader as a Bush surrogate.

[ShimokitaJer]

21. Really? I hope they take their gloves off against Bush.

After all, doesn't Nader supposedly share the same ideals of the Democratic party? Isn't that why everyone insists he shouldn't run?

I'm confused. I could have sworn we were trying to get Bush out of power this time around.

You're right. They shouldn't ignore Nader. They should try to make the party more appealing to those who would support him, and make it look a lot less like Bush in the process. That's how you win the presidency and Congressional seats.

[SEAburb]

27. Nader isn't part of the Dem party, he's running against it

just like Bush and should be treated the same. If you want to support the Nader-Bush alliance go ahead, that's your right.

[BL_Zebub]

30. McUseless couldn't do that

since he's a Bush surrogate as much if not more than Nader is.

[corporatewhore]

18. ya know if the dems started to listen and care about our issues

maybe they could win over greens that way like duh terrry

[SEAburb]

19. Yeah diversity of ideas is bad, but lock step thinking like the Greens

is good.

[ShimokitaJer]

23. Lock step thinking like the Greens?

Do you know anything at all about the Green party? This statement suggests that you do not.

[LandOLincoln]

25. You mean the Green Party that wouldn't touch Nader

with a ten-foot pole this time around? The Green Party that's seen through Nader's act and now wants nothing to do with him?

The Green Party that lost hundreds if not thousands of members here in New Mexico--including me, BTW--so we could re-register as Democrats and vote for Wes Clark or Howard Dean or Dennis Kucinich or even John Kerry in our February 3rd caucus?

Is THAT the Green Party you mean?

[ShimokitaJer]

39. Yes. That Green party

There's a lot that can be said about Green party voters, but no one can pretend that they vote in lockstep.

That was the issue I was responding to, or didn't you bother to read it before you saw the word "Green" and felt the need to vent?

[jonnyblitz]

29. isn't lock-step what you DEMS want? lock-step ABB?

I am not a big fan of Nader and never was but the Green party platform SHOULD be the DEM party platform.

[mobuto]

31. But it isn't

The Dem Party Platform is still damn good. And its infinitely better than the only alternative - the Republican Party Platform.

Nader will not be elected President. Its either going to be George Bush or the Democratic nominee.

I suggest you vote for the Democrat.

[ShimokitaJer]

40. Really? What is the Dem Party platform?

As far as I know, it hasn't been drawn up yet, except to the extent that Dean forced all the candidates to deal with certain issues that now damn well better be made a part of it.

Why don't you show me the Dem party platform and how progressive it is before you insist that I vote for it?

[SEAburb]

33. ABB has to do with supporting the dem that wins the nomination

Your mixing two different issues here. Do you have a problem with supporting the dem nomination?

The dem party has a wide range of political points of view and it's the most diverse party in the country.

[pezcore64]

26. oh yeah

Thats just who you need to try and convince Nader...

hahaha
yeah, send the leader of the party he thinks is corrupt to talk to him, thatll change his mind!

[CalebHayes]

28. I agree with Terry.

[HuskerDem]

38. I hope he takes some big ass union guys with him

and a tazer gun and some pepper spray and a broken long neck bottle and a bucket of acid and a whole &*$%& (*)&^^ fleet of Corvairs and rams them all up Nader's ...........

Except for the Union guys. They can watch the door and talk real loud to mask the screams.