Hillary Clinton Rivals Take On Bill

[ariesgem]

AP) Bill Clinton was hit with caustic criticism Tuesday from his wife's Democratic rivals, who accused the popular former president of falsely comparing questions about her candor to smears of past campaigns.

snip................

The week after Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign accused her rivals of "piling on," those foes showed no sign of easing up. They even went so far as to criticize the former president, a strategy that comes with risks in a party filled with voters who admire him for resurrecting the party in the 1990s.

On Monday, in defense of his wife against political critics, Bill Clinton cited the "swift boat" television ads of the 2004 presidential campaign that questioned John Kerry's patriotism and the campaign commercials in 2002 that suggested Sen. Max Cleland of Georgia was soft on terrorism.

Obama told The Associated Press he was "stunned" to hear Clinton make the comparison. Both Kerry, who commanded a Navy swift boat in Vietnam, and Cleland, who lost three limbs in that war, are decorated veterans who were defeated by Republicans.

Obama said Hillary Clinton contradicted herself at the end of a Democratic presidential debate last week when asked whether she supported a plan by the New York governor to issue driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. This week, the Illinois senator and former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina have repeatedly reproached her on that subject.

"How you would then draw an analogy to distorting somebody's military record is a reach," Obama said.

Connecticut Sen. Chris Dodd, another candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, called the Clintons' response to the debate "outrageous."

"To have the former president come out and suggest this is a form of swift boating ... is way over the top in my view," Dodd said in a telephone interview.

A senior adviser to Sen. Clinton's campaign, speaking only on condition of anonymity, said the former president's remarks were not part of campaign strategy and in fact were considered counterproductive by the her advisers.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/06/ap/politics/main3462443.shtml

[polichick]

1. self-delete, that wasn't very nice :)

[rinsd]

2. And now the MSM has their game. Because Bill was addressing rwers not her Dem rivals.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3690690

[IndianaGreen]

3. If Hillary can't put Bill in his proper place as a candidate's spouse, how can she run the country?

Bill needs to learn to act like a Presidential candidate's spouse. While it is okay to speak in defense of the candidate from time to time, to engage in the campaign as Bill has is a no-no.

How is she going to control Bill if she becomes President? There is only one President at a time, not two!

[ShortnFiery]

5. That's the point, you can't control Bill Clinton - it would be essentially a co-presidency.

Bill Clinton can NOT play second chair to anyone. This is like watching a slow train wreck. :(

[durrrty libby]

6. Nah...It's like watching a beautiful waltz

[ShortnFiery]

8. that morphs into a break dance and down down into the mosh pit of centrist hell?

:spray:

[durrrty libby]

14. So obvious that there is a writers strike

:eyes:

[ShortnFiery]

15. Awe, you're welcome.

SNAP! Wooosh! ;)

[durrrty libby]

22. "mosh pit of centrist hell?"

Even you must know that is gibberish

[ShortnFiery]

23. No, it's GD *artwork*

:P

[dugggy]

62. But center is where most voters reside n/t

[roguevalley]

35. he really can't run interference for her because it makes her look

weak. a lot of people are for her because of him. they miss how it was when he was there.

[durrrty libby]

11. " proper place "? Which would be what? What is the proper place

of a former president? You get to determine that? Yeah right

"a no-no." Says who?

"control Bill"? What condescending crap.

"only one President at a time, not two!" We need a great team

[BootinUp]

13. Some of us would like to hear what he has to say. n/t

[ShortnFiery]

17. So, EIGHT YEARS wasn't enough to have to tolerate Bill *in charge,* we have to go for 8 more?!?

OMG! Say it isn't so? :(

[BootinUp]

19. You apparently want people to hear

or read your opinions, you don't think Bill has earned the same right?

[ShortnFiery]

24. Yeah, let's here more about his friends ...

too? Flowers, Lewinsky. :crazy:

[BootinUp]

29. As I recall

Republicans lost the house as a result of the impeachment and Bill's favorable poll numbers have been very good since then as well. There is a downside for them, the Repukes, bringing that shit up again. So don't bet on it.

[emilyg]

21. I certainly would.

[bluedog]

52. another candidate has his wife

taking on fellow Democrats..what the deal here.....its okay if one does it.but for a Clinton its bad?

[Clintonista2]

4. It's easy to mistake Obama for a RWer these days.

Maybe donnie McClurkin can comfort him.

[MethuenProgressive]

7. His support from liberals is down to a mere 25%.

Someone should tell him who votes in primaries.


edit to add link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3690083&mesg_id=3690083

[ShortnFiery]

9. Wow that's news to me! ... more from our illustrious M$M tainted polling? n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

25. Yeah... any poll you don't like the results of, is fixed.

:eyes:

[jefferson_dem]

26. You're fixation on that "event" is humorous.

Even in a thread about her shabby debate performance...you whip out the same tired old card. Yawn...

[MethuenProgressive]

30. Rejecting homophobia is "humorous"?

Perhaps if McObama had a "fixation" on human rights this "event" wouldn't have happened.

[blm]

27. Hillary would never join a RW distortion against a Democrat.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[jefferson_dem]

28. Totally disgusting.

No other words.

[jenmito]

33. WOW! Thanks for that. Hillary piled on Kerry!

Just goes to show she was either pandering for the hawk vote or she has no judgement and didn't believe Kerry that it was a joke misspoken.

[cuke]

36. So all of a sudden you're against right wing propoganda?

It gets posted on DU every day and I NEVER see you complaining about it

[karynnj]

37. Are you kidding?

BLM has posted about evil things that the RW did in the 1970s, 1980s as well as now. There are few people who are willing to face what was done in our names in teh Reagan/Bush years. It is too bad that they co-opted the media then leading people to accept supporting the Contras and even see Oliver North as a hero.

[cuke]

38. So then why don't I ever see it

Every day someone posts crap from a right wing site and agrees with it. I've never seen blm object to this.

Pointing out the things the rw has done is not the same as pointing out rw propoganda when it appears on DU

[blm]

47. And did YOU point out that Hillary JOINED the RW smear machine against Kerry?

Because I was here pointing out RW propaganda against ANY Democrat and have been doing so for YEARS.

I noticed that neither Clinton stuck their necks out for ANY Democrat being smeared by Bush and Rove throughout the years - no official public statements to defend Cleland, Kerry or Murtha AS the attacks were happening.

I have a small voice on a discussion forum with zero access to a microphone or newscamera - what do Clintons have access to that would have been helpful to use to defend other Democrats the last 6 years?

[karynnj]

54. That would be a sin of omission, not commission

I have seen her question the use of some sites like Counterpunch. I think it is more important to question a RW site that looks and sounds reasonable - when it isn't than to post disagreements with every use of a RW source - no one does that and it would be a waste of time.

What I have NEVER seen was BLM posting an attack from a right wing source. There are plenty of people who do when it suits their agenda, she is not among them. It is not her job to scour DU looking for RW propaganda.

[jenmito]

40. Why are you trying to change the subject?

The clip he showed had nothing to do with RW propaganda. Hillary agreed with the RW LIE that Kerry was insulting the troops. You're ok with that?

[IndianaGreen]

43. Hillary played the RW smear against Kerry because she saw Kerry as a rival

to her imperial ambitions.

[blm]

48. And with good reason - she knew she could NEVER dominate him in the debates

or on the campaign trail.

And our party and our country is all the poorer because of the undermining that has been done by those wearing donkey masks the last 10 years.

[jenmito]

57. Yup! SHE played it. She piled on Kerry to look like SHE, unlike HE, supports the military.

She has no morals.

[blm]

46. You don't know me. I LEAD against RW propaganda and have for DECADES.

And I *DARE* call out the Clintons for THEIR lengthy and close relationship with the Bushes over the years.

You can't NAME any RW propaganda machine that takes the Clintons to task for protecting Poppy Bush and his cronies on all the outstanding matters on IranContra, Iraqgate, BCCI and CIA Drugrunning operations that kept coming up throughout the 90s.

You can't name any RW propaganda machine who has even noticed that almost every problem this nation and world has right now is rooted in Poppy Bush's illegal BCCI operations.

You can't name any RW propaganda machine showing concern that Bill Clinton pardoned Marc Rich because he was a named figure in Poppy Bush's illegal operations in IranContra and BCCI.

You can't name a propaganda machine concerned that BCCI is never mentioned in Bill's entire book, though at its core it was all about the illegal funding of global terrorism.

WHY?

Because then Bill would have had to mention that it was Sen. John Kerry who was the top lawmaker in DC for all those years tracking the terror networks and those funding them when he uncovered and investigated BCCI. That would have hurt Poppy Bush and the Bushboy and been too helpful to John Kerry if Bill had discussed BCCI on his book tour.

[IndianaGreen]

42. And Hillary has also used Matt Drudge to float stories

The woman is shameless!

[cuke]

45. Wow, you actually believe Fox's lies

incredible

[blm]

50. Do you judge rank and file Dems harder than Dem leaders w/access to newscameras?

You haven't made ONE REPLY that states how you feel about Hillary's use of the newscameras to join Bush and McCain's lie against Kerry.

[cuke]

58. I don't respond to outright lies

Hillary did not join * though I'm sure a lot repukes would be thrilled to hear a fighter of propoganda, such as yourself, join in attacking Hillary.

[blm]

65. They loved that she joined the smear against Kerry. Take it up with her

she's proud she did it - she showed the troops how much she supports them by attacking Kerry. The corporate media cameras LOVED it, too.

[Froward69]

55. I had forgotten about that...

Kerry couldn't tell a joke if his life depended on it! Hillary could not tell the Difference.

[jenmito]

32. Bill was NOT addressing RWers.

He was definitely addressing those in the debate when he said, "By the way, here's what Bill Clinton said in Las Vegas yesterday: "'We listened to people make snide comments about whether Vice President Gore was too stiff,' said. 'And when they made dishonest claims about the things that he said that he'd done in his life. When that scandalous swift boat ad was run against Senator Kerry. When there was an ad that defeated Max Cleland in Georgia, a man that left half his body in Vietnam.'"

Why am I saying this? Because, I had the feeling that at the end of that last debate we were about to get into cutesy land again. Ya'll raise your hand if you're for illegal immigrants getting a driver's license. So, we then let the Republicans go ahead saying all the Democrats are against the rule of law.'"

[BootinUp]

10. Obama v the Big Dawg?

Guess who's gonna win.

[ShortnFiery]

12. Gee, I guess we'll have to change The Constitution again because he's not eligible?

:eyes: That's why a co-presidency is so damn distasteful to many of us. :(

[BootinUp]

16. You lost me

at the first phrase. I have no idea what you are trying to say.

[jenmito]

34. She clearly meant this isn't (supposed to be) a contest between Obama and Bill (the spouse)...

when Elizabeth Edwards said something about Hillary didn't Hillary supporters say it's not right for a spouse to criticize the candidate since the candidate can't really criticize back?

[durrrty libby]

18. And some of us love teamwork.

Personally, I root for fabulous teams.

[Clintonista2]

20. Huh? nm.

[blm]

31. Depends on who the media needs to win.

Doesn't it?

[creeksneakers2]

39. Swift boating is now a verb

which refers to any coordinated political smear. Bill is right. The twisting of words and endless repetition of unfounded personal attacks are classic right wing tactics. Its a shame that's what our campaigns are about now.

[jenmito]

41. It's now a verb which does NOT describe what happened to Hillary.

There WAS no coordinated smear. Hillary dodged and weaved and people, Dems. right there on the stage, called her on it. Others called her on it later, but her competitors did and they were right to do so.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

44. Bill C said nothing of the sort, though, Why complain about things he never said?

Transcript: ( http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2007/11/text_of_bill_clintons_comments.php )

"The point I'm here to make to you is whoever you're for, this is a really big election. We saw what happened the last seven years when we made decisions in elections based on trivial matters. When we listened to people make snide comments about whether Vice President Gore was too stiff.

"And when they made dishonest claims about the things that he said that he'd done in his life. When that scandalous Swift Boat ad was run against Senator Kerry. When there was an ad that defeated Max Cleland in Georgia, a man that left half his body in Vietnam...

Why am I saying this?

"Because, I had the feeling that at the end of that last debate we were about to get into cutesy land again. Ya'll raise your hand if you're for illegal immigrants getting a driver's license. So, we then let the Republicans go ahead saying all the Democrats are against the rule of law.

"I think it's fine to discuss immigration. We should. I believe immigration needs to be discussed. And it's fine for Hillary and all the other Democrats to discuss Governor Spitzer's plan. But not in 30 seconds, yes, no, raise your hand. This is a complicated issue. This is a complicated issue.

"So do I hope you vote for my wife? You bet I do. It'd be good for America, and good for the world. But, more than that I came here to tell you today, don't you dare let them take this election away from you...Don't be diverted, don't be divided."

[Inuca]

49. The implication in what he said is clear

He does not have to say "Hillary was swiftboated", he is too smart for that. And no, he was not referring to republican attacks, as many Clinton supporters have suggested. From the text you quoted above: "I had the feeling that at the end of that last debate we were about to get into cutesy land again", this coming right after he mentioned the attacks on Kerry and Cleland.

[blm]

53. And Bush never actually SAID that Saddam attacked us on 9-11.

But he made sure to bring up 9-11 and terrorism and Iraq many times - didn't he?

It's a political tactic to do that and Bill was employing it.

He's not naive.

And now he's FEIGNING outrage over what happened to Cleland and Kerry - to speak out forcefully to DEFEND Max and John? NO - he would have done that AS THE ATTTACKS WERE HAPPENING DURING THEIR ELECTION RACES.

Bill saved up all that outrage to use the attacks on Cleland and Kerry for HILLARY'S ELECTION.

THAT is despicable and soulless.

[jenmito]

56. I'll put in bold print the things he said which clearly imply he's talking about ALL who criticized

her answer (or non-answer, and I'll put my own comments in parentheses):


"The point I'm here to make to you is whoever you're for, this is a really big election. We saw what happened the last seven years when we made decisions in elections based on trivial matters. (Hillary's evasive, changing answer which the other candidates said they didn't understand.) When we listened to people make snide comments about whether Vice President Gore was too stiff. (Or comments about Hillary from the other candidates about her changing her answer/being evasive.)

"And when they made dishonest claims about the things that he said that he'd done in his life. (Or when the other candidates said she just gave two different answers in a couple minutes.) When that scandalous Swift Boat ad was run against Senator Kerry. When there was an ad that defeated Max Cleland in Georgia, a man that left half his body in Vietnam...

Why am I saying this?

"Because, I had the feeling that at the end of that last debate(when Hillary messed up) we were about to get into cutesy land again.(calling her on it, totally unlike lying about her like the Swiftboat liars.) Ya'll raise your hand if you're for illegal immigrants getting a driver's license. So, we then let the Republicans go ahead saying all the Democrats are against the rule of law.

"I think it's fine to discuss immigration. We should. I believe immigration needs to be discussed. And it's fine for Hillary and all the other Democrats to discuss Governor Spitzer's plan. But not in 30 seconds, yes, no, raise your hand.(Hillary's the only one who couldn't successfully answer this in 30 seconds.) This is a complicated issue. This is a complicated issue.

"So do I hope you vote for my wife? You bet I do. It'd be good for America, and good for the world. But, more than that I came here to tell you today, don't you dare let them take this election away from you...Don't be diverted, don't be divided." (By "don't be diverted, don't be divided" he means about HILLARY. He doesn't want her non-answer to be the reason she loses.)

[creeksneakers2]

60. Edwards is lying

And it took Edwards more than 30 seconds to answer the same question. In fact, Edwards' answer is almost identical to Hillary's.

[creeksneakers2]

59. Example of a shared lie

Edwards is putting out web ads that say Hillary still hasn't taken a position on Spitzer's license program. Hillary cleared up her position the day after the debate. Edwards is just plain lying.

The media is telling the same lie. The right wing propanganda machine is telling the same lie. Is it just a coincidence that they all tell the same lie over and over at the same times?

What is happening is that each of the three smear launchers see where the pile is starting and jump on. Edwards knows this. Edwards videos play on RushLimbaugh.com. Freeper trolls love Edwards. They are all in it together.

[blm]

51. Did Hillary open those floodgates herself when she pretended Kerry insulted troops

and found newscameras to make sure that the public knew she agreed with Bush and McCain that Kerry insulted the troops?

[mtnsnake]

61. At least Hillary won't court a Republican to be her VP running mate like Kerry did

That had to be one of THE most embarrassing moments in the history of our Party, bar none.

[IndianaGreen]

63. The irony of Hillary participating in the swiftboating of Kerry, saying he smeared troops

and then having the gall of having her philandering hubby comparing the criticism of his wife to the swiftboating of Kerry and Max Cleland.

As former Clinton pal and fundraiser David Geffen said, the problem with the Clintons is not that they lie, but that they lie with such ease.

[Paul_Weyrich]

64. That's not a good move. Bill is too popular.

Attack him and the party will not be happy.