LIberals didn't like JFK, either.

[hedgehog]

FK and Eleanor Roosevelt - for those who don't remember-


Q: Mrs. Roosevelt, last summer at the Democratic Convention, you opposed the nomination of Senator Kennedy on the grounds that he would not attract the Negro voter. Would you care to evaluate for us now what strengths you might think he has with the Negro voter?

A: What I actually said was that some of the Negro leaders had been greatly offended by something Senator Kennedy had done. In fact, he had gone to a meeting with a Southern governor,1 and a good many of the Negro leaders couldn't understand it. They didn't realize that he thought, out of ignorance, probably, that he could have some influence on this Southern governor. I think he's learned better now.
....

Q: Do you have any personal sense of loss that Mr. Stevenson, as hard as you promoted him before and during the campaign, that he is not the standard-bearer?

A: No. I was disappointed at the time of the convention, because I had advocated very strongly the fact that I thought the best ticket, since I have known our most difficult questions are going to come up in foreign affairs very quickly, that the best ticket would be, Adlai Stevenson as president, and John Kennedy as vice president. But, I have watched very carefully, this campaign. And my respect for the candidate has grown. And I think of late, that there is something very interesting that has happened. I think that the reason that everybody speaks of the fact that he seems to enjoy the campaign, that he seems to get a great deal from the crowds that come out to meet him, is because he has created an identification with the people. Now this is really very valuable if it's so, for the simple reason that we are going to need not just a leader, we are going to need a leader who can call on the greatness of the American people. And if he's able to do it, then we can look forward to great accomplishments, both in this country and in the world.

....

Q: Mrs. Roosevelt, do you think there is a women's vote as such?

A: Do I think what?

Q: There is a women's vote, as a bloc?

A: Oh, because there are more women in this country than men! Now, it's important, but I don't know that you can say that all women vote alike. I've seen as much difference in women as I have in men, so that I don't think that you can say, if you are going to say that all women vote one way, they surely won't. It's just like in the old days, that labor leaders used to try to say all the labor will vote this way!" It never does! And so this is just nonsense, you see. They're people, and if you win the people, you win the people! Now, of course, you can appeal to certain things which will appeal greatly. Now, for instance, President Eisenhower, in his promise to go to Korea, which made the inference that he would stop the war, did appeal to the mothers who had sons in Korea.4 But short of a thing like that, you don't appeal to any particular group of people.


....
Q: Mrs. Roosevelt, recently, some columnists have been talking about a similarity between your husband, President Roosevelt, and Senator Kennedy. Do you see any of this similarity between them?

A: Just lately I've begun to see a certain similarity apparently in the response of crowds. And I haven't myself witnessed it; I've only heard about it. So I don't really know. But it sounds very similar. Now I don't know what brings this about .

...
Q: Mrs. Roosevelt, in your long travels overseas, do you agree with a contention made that the United States has suffered a loss of prestige overseas? And if so, in what countries?

A: Well, if you were to ask me that question a little differently, if you were to ask me if we had lost friends, I would say yes. We have lost friends. Prestige is hard to define. We are still a great country, we are still a country that commands a certain amount of respect. And therefore, prestige is a difficult word to use. But if you said friends, I think that I would quite agree.

http://www.gwu.edu/~erpapers/mep/displaydoc.cfm?docid=jfk34


People forget that the liberals just didn't trust JFK before the election:

Excerpts From CBS-TV Broadcast of "Face the Nation"1
March 30, 1958

MR. MADIGAN2: In the general field of national politics, Senator, do you think that the Candidate in the Democratic party would have to be definitely associated with the liberal wing of the party3 in 1960?

SENATOR KENNEDY: I do.

MR. MADIGAN: Do you believe that you are in that wing?

SENATOR KENNEDY: I do.

MR. MADIGAN: Do4 you count yourself a liberal?

SENATOR KENNEDY: I do.

MR. MADIGAN: Do you think that your position in regard to, and I quote now from Mrs. Eleanor Roosevelt's recent magazine article, in which she said that you, to summarize it, that you had dodged the McCarthy issue in 1954, and then in 1956. Do you think she is beating a dead horse, or is that still a live issue?

SENATOR KENNEDY: In the first place, Mr. Madigan, as you know I was not in the Senate for about a year. I was in the hospital a good deal of that time5 -- at the time, unfortunately, that the censure motion came up.6 I stated on this program -- I believe, in answer to a question of yours -- before the convention that while I regretted having missed it, I consider the censure action a reasonable action and a proper one, and one that I approve of. I have said it on other television programs, and I am glad to say it again.

MR. MADIGAN: Why is Mrs. Roosevelt bringing this up again?

SENATOR KENNEDY: Mrs. Roosevelt was writing her Memoirs of the 1956 convention7 in which she stated her opinion. I admire her and what she has done.

I think that my position -- I hope -- is clear to her.8 In addition, on the basic question of civil liberties or due process, I have been in the Congress for 12 years; and I believe that my record stands up very well in comparison with that of any man.



These excerpts have a certain resonance for me.

[David Zephyr]

1. I was at Eleanor's cottage at Val-Kil this month. She and John became very close after this.

This Californian was just at Eleanor's cottage, Val-Kil, two weeks ago, where she had a two hour breakfast meeting with John Kennedy. Eleanor and John became good friends.

For those who don't know, Val-Kil was a cottage sitting up above the main residence where Franklin grew up as a boy and where he and Eleanor lived until he died. She then moved into Val-Kil permanently after his death, but they are buried side by side in Hyde Park at the Presidential Home and Library along by their beloved pup.

Above is a photo of Eleanor and John together at Val-Kil (the table is still there!), and below are a few others of these two historic figures together.

[hedgehog]

2. Eleanor eventually came around, but she opposed JFK at first. nt.

He wasn't liberal enough, his father had supported Joe McCarthy and JFK was Catholic. At that time, a lot of prominent Catholics were anti-communist hardliners.

[David Zephyr]

3. I don't know what you are trying to get at. "Eventually" came around sounds like eons.

And eons it wasn't. Unless you consider a few months eons.

What is the point that you are trying to make here? Your newest post in your thread could leave the impression that Eleanor opposed John Kennedy because he "was Catholic". And that would be historically incorrect. Also, this may be hard for you to accept, but many Catholics were also communists, socialists, progressives, and liberals throughout the 1800's and 1900's, both in the United States and abroad, too.

What is your point?

[hedgehog]

4. I was responding to several posts complaining that Obama isn't liberal enough.

Eleanor Roosevelt opposed JFK before the convention. Maybe not eons, but a very critical few months to say the least.
She and other liberals of the time thought him too much of the Cold Warrior. In those pre-Vatican II times, the public face of the Church in the US was Cardinal Spellman. I think today most Catholics would classify him as a reactionary. Back then, many liberals feared that the Church would influence JFK to take the country on a right turn. She herself denied being an anti-Catholic, having supported Al Smith in 1928, but there is room for some discussion here. Even today, some call Anti-Catholicism the Anti-Semitism of the Left

[David Zephyr]

5. To support Obama, one doesn't need to sling mud at Eleanor and JFK.

My companion wears an Obama button on his shirt every single day and has since this summer. So my family is split with one die-hard Obama supporter and me on the sidelines bouncing from candidate to candidate.

I know a lot about labor and progressive history...you should see my library. Cardinal Spellman was not the "face of the Catholic Church" in the U.S.

Barack Obama is "liberal enough" for me. His progressive bonafides are not in question. You don't need to drag down Eleanor and JFK to make that point.

Eleanor and John were great friends. And you should know that Joseph Kennedy was Franklin's Ambassador to the U.K.

Take heart in that Barack is gaining in Iowa and New Hampshire, but leave Eleanor and JFK out of it.

Peace.

[hedgehog]

6. Slinging mud at Eleanor and JFK? Hardly, just reminding people that

JFK was not handed nomination and election in 1960 but had to fight every step of the way.

Cardinal Spellman was called "the American Pope". Yes, many Catholics have been progressives and labor supporters, I come from that tradition myself. But don't forget that the official Church in the 20th Century also tolerated Charles E. Coughlin and Franco. During the late 50's, the Church and its members were viewed as adamantly anti-communist. JFK did a lot to dispel the image of the Church as monolithic Establishment.

As for Joe Kennedy and FDR:

Kennedy and FDR's combative relationship dates back to 1917 when Assistant Secretary of the Navy Roosevelt ordered the Marines to seize ships manufactured in Kennedy's shipyard which Kennedy had refused to release until the Navy paid for them. Roosevelt's determination impressed Kennedy and he diligently supported FDR in 1932, lobbying friends, raising funds, and persuading William Randolph Hearst to shift his support to FDR, thereby ensuring FDR's nomination. Kennedy hoped that his support would encourage FDR to appoint him treasury secretary only to be bitterly hurt when the appointment went to William H. Woodin. An angry Kennedy remained in Boston until June 1934 when FDR tapped him to head the newly created Securities and Exchange Commission, rebuffing criticism the appointment generated by retorting it was effective to "set a thief to catch a thief." Kennedy excelled in the position, gathering widespread praise for his management of the agency and enforcement of securities regulation. He resigned a year later to return to private business, continued to act as FDR's intermediary with Catholics, financiers, and major businesses, and write I'm for Roosevelt to win business votes for FDR in the 1936 election. In February 1937, he returned to the administration to chair the first Maritime Commission and help revive the American shipping industry.

Their relationship began to fray in 1938 after Kennedy successfully lobbied FDR to appoint him ambassador to Great Britain. FDR, who thought America might have to come to the aid of Britain if Hitler continued to capture Europe, hoped Kennedy's appointment would help counter the anti-British sentiment among Catholics in the Northeast. Kennedy, however, was not used to taking orders and, after he developed a close relationship with Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, Kennedy angered FDR by urging him to support the Munich Pact. When Hitler violated the pact and invaded Poland and France, Kennedy decided the British could not repel a German invasion and publicly urged FDR not to come to Britain's aid. By October 1940, Kennedy threatened to endorse Wilkie and reveal FDR's secret cooperation with Churchill. However, after a tense face-to-face meeting with a furious FDR later that month, Kennedy endorsed FDR in an extremely effective October 27 radio address. Their relationship dissolved after the election, when Kennedy resigned and testified against Lend-Lease and FDR refused to give him another significant appointment. Only their last face-to-face meeting in 1944 prevented Kennedy from opposing FDR's re-election.

http://www.gwu.edu/~erpapers/mep/displaydoc.cfm?docid=erpn-jpk


I don't have a reference handy, but I seem to recall Joe referring to FDR as "that bastard who got my son killed."