Sorry, but it's not to impressive to break the glass ceiling while standing

[hedgehog]

on your husband's shoulders! Some would claim that Hillary could not have entered politics except as Bill's wife. Tell that to the 26 women who have become governors since 1975 without having been married to a former governor.

[sandnsea]

1. She definitely could have

It's just that she didn't.

[rinsd]

2. Some would claim?

Jesus H. Christ that is that pathetic level you are reduced to "Some say"?

[Joe the Revelator]

3. Is it any worse then claiming that 6 guys are ganging up on a helpliess woman...

...some would say thats is dishonest to claim to be a strong woman while hiding behind a skirt. (Or pant suit as the case may be)

[rinsd]

4. Show me where I claimed that.

Frankly, any candidate taking on 6 other candidates at once is impressive. It has little to do with her being female.

[Cameron27]

5. 6 candidates and a moderator

[Joe the Revelator]

9. I think you're joking, so unless told otherwise, this is my only reply to your post...

LOL

[Cameron27]

11. I'm not joking.

Russert framed enough questions that enabled an attack, that I'm including him in the pile on.

[Joe the Revelator]

17. Then its sad you feel that way...

...if Hillary had ANSWERED some questions, nobody would have a thing to say about Russert. Don't blame him for Hillary's evasiveness.

[Cameron27]

21. You mean like Obama ANSWERED his SS question:

"Russert: Senator Obama, you said in May, that, quote, "Everything is on the table when it comes to Social Security." You now have an ad up in Iowa which says that any benefit cuts are off and raising the retirement age are off.

Why have you changed your mind?

Obama: Well, what I say is that that is not my plan.

Now, I just want to go back to what Senator Clinton said, ..."

See how Russert alludes to something Obama said earlier, Obama answers with a confusing as hell sentence and then goes immediately into attacking Clinton? Russert let him get away with it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3673159&mesg_id=3673794

[Joe the Revelator]

22. How is that a confusing answer?

He's not changing his postion within a matter of two minutes, what he says it what Hillary WISHES she had said now, that it's not his plan, and that he can't be held accountable to it.

[Cameron27]

23. His answer was barely coherent,

and he immediately deflected his question to chime in on the Clinton attack, which Russert more than happily allowed him to do.

[Joe the Revelator]

25. When faced with a situation like this, your candidate and her supporters have two choices...

either man up, get back on message and start kicking ass back, or start whining about unfair moderators and mean candidates. Unfortunately, Hillary chose the latter, which is going to hurt her in the long run.

And for the record, if you understand the English language, Obama's repines is nothing but clear. There really isn't any argument there, unless again, you don't understand the language he is speaking.

[Cameron27]

27. Not my candidate,

she might be, but right now I think I'll be supporting Biden in the primaries. I speak English, and I can see a deflection that was willingly allowed by a moderator who would never have given Clinton the same chance.

[Joe the Revelator]

29. Blaiming the moderator is really the very epitomy of pathetic spin...

...as a fellow Biden supporter, don't go down that road.

[Cameron27]

30. As a Biden supporter, I'm surprised that you aren't

on Russert's ass for this debate. Joe had zero time, as usual, he didn't participate in the Hillary free for all, he stayed focused on the GOP and won the damned thing anyway. Russert made it a Clinton centered debate, and while Edwards and Obama may have thought it would help them, Biden made it clear he wasn't going there.

[Joe the Revelator]

31. Biden was able to swing me with the time he had at this debate...

...if lesser candidates can't do that with more time, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Joe the Revelator]

8. I'm talking about the "Politics of Little Ol Me" that your candidate is practicing...

this isn't her first time to the rodeo, she needs to stop acting like such a meek little flower.

[Sparkly]

10. I'm sorry, I am just not seeing that.

I remember Dean talking about "pulling buckshot out" of his rear end. Was that "poor little me," or was it different when he's a man?

IF she said she were being attacked or "piled on" BECAUSE she's a woman, it'd be different. She is not saying that.

I think the assumptions, and reading things into what she says, are what's sexist.

[rinsd]

12. Damn................

I remember Dean talking about "pulling buckshot out" of his rear end. Was that "poor little me," or was it different when he's a man?

[BootinUp]

14. that was different!

not really. ;)

[Joe the Revelator]

16. I thought Dean was a poor front runner last cycle, however...

making a cute witticism to joke about people gunning for you is A LOT different then having you're entire spin operation be about "Poor Little Hillary, the girl that nobody liked". Its a joke, and some of you are apparently falling for it.

[Sparkly]

18. "Poor Little Hillary, the girl that nobody liked"?

Could you refer me to something so I can understand the "entire spin operation" you're talking about? :shrug:

[Joe the Revelator]

20. Here ya go!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=kKk&q=Hillary+Debate&btnG=Search

[Sparkly]

24. I'm not seeing it.

What are you referring to?

[hedgehog]

32. I don't know how many times I've seen the argument here that Senator

Clinton is a Senator only because of her connection to President Clinton countered by the argument that President Clinton only succeeded because he was pushed by Senator Clinton. I mentioned the female governors as proof that it was possible for Senator Clinton's contemporaries to succeed in politics. If Senator Clinton suborned her career to President Clinton's, that was her choice.

[aquart]

6. Are you talking about New York's two-term Senator Hillary Clinton?

It really eats your ass that a First Lady has become something other than a cookie baker, doesn't it?

So, how many of those governors have successfully run for president? Let me know.

[cali]

7. Are you familiar with Hendrik Herzberg, the writer from The New Yorker?

He's an incredibly astute writer, and hardly a shill for Clinton. In a wonderful piece on Dynasties, in last week's New Yorker, he wrote this:

"Senator Clinton is different, obviously. She is indisputably a wife-of, but it was she, not he, whom Life selected as an icon of their generation when she graduated from college. It was she, not he, who, as a young lawyer, got the coveted job with the House Watergate investigation. She would have gone far, maybe even this far, without him. "

Great article. I suggest reading the whole piece. Man, I wish more people read The New Yorker and Harper's instead of just watching TV.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2007/10/29/071029taco_talk_hertzberg

[Sparkly]

15. I once saw a bio where friends of hers at that time said the same thing.

They said they were terribly disappointed when she went with Bill Clinton to Arkansas, because she had so much potential on her own if she didn't. It's not clear whether her successes haven't been in spite of her marriage rather than because of it -- who knows?

(And I wonder how many men would be where they are without their wives?)

[polichick]

13. imo Bill and Hill are political codependents...

He had his turn, now it's her turn to be on top (so to speak).

[cali]

19. Interesting that this is a hit and run OP and sad to see such

blatant and ugly sexism on DU.

[Cameron27]

26. Yes, it's sad.

[Orangepeel]

28. It's impressive to me. (and I'm an Edwards supporter)

None of those 26 women governors are anywhere close to the ceiling.

Personally, I think that Bill and Hillary Clinton climbed to where they are together.