How is Hillary's response criticism any different then the current President?

[Joe the Revelator]

Basically, you are either against Hillary or with her. I thought that we at DU hated that type of rhetoric. Any candidate who can't take criticism of his/her positions should not be running on the democratic ticket.Its really as simple as that.

If we don't learn from the past, we're due for another 4 years of fake news, weak reporters and zero disclosure from the executive branch.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Can you please give an example of this?

[Joe the Revelator]

3. You can't be serious...

The politics of Pile-ON

The idea that "men are ganging up and attacking me!"

The constant refrain that attacking her positions is against ethical campaigning

[Buzz Clik]

15. Yeah. Okay. That doesn't sound like Bush.

[Clintonista2]

17. What?! You've never heard Bush say "These men are ganging up on me!" before?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[incapsulated]

2. Yeah, like every other candidate

Ask for forgiveness or salutes their opinions when their competitors criticize them.

THIS IS A COMPETITION NOT A TEA PARTY.

NO candidate says to a competitor: fair point, maybe I will change my position on this Mr. X, you really got me there, what a fool I have been, I congratulate you on your intelligence, maybe you should win this after all!

They say: Oh yeah, what about YOUR record, Mr. Bigmouth? I defend my completely correct stance and question not only your motives but your general humanity, if you are indeed a human being, I have my doubts based on your behavior....

[Joe the Revelator]

4. No other candidate makes every attack on him/her...

an attack against womanhood as a whole. No other canidate puts out a commercial called "The Politics of Pile On" because he/she encountered some resistence.

Face it, Hillary enjoys squashing opposition, just like the current administration.

[incapsulated]

11. You say this like it's a bad thing

You don't want a politician on your side who "squashes the competition"?

I sure as hell do. In fact, that is exactly what I want in a nominee going up against the GOP.

Frankly, the naiveté, real or not, displayed here at any political move by Hillary is laughable to me. And willfully blind to the other candidates playing the same games.

[Joe the Revelator]

13. I thought the fight was agains tthe jingoistic bullshit put forth by this administration...

With me or Against me!!

I guess, for you, that its ok as long as you are on the side of power.

[hedgehog]

8. Exactly , they say what about your record, Mr Bigmouth, not

I'm here to break the glass ceiling for all other women or you people are all piling on.

[Joe the Revelator]

5. I forgot to mention, how is the term "Hillary Hater" any different than

America haters.

[cali]

18. how is the term "hillbot" or the term "hillshill" any better than

Hillary Hater? You're being a tad selective here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. I'll Settle For That

"If we don't learn from the past, we're due for another 4 years of fake news, weak reporters and zero disclosure from the executive branch. '

I'll settle for that and eat glass every day to replace John Paul Stevens and Ruth Bader Ginsburg with liberal justices...

[Joe the Revelator]

9. I guess thats pretty sad...

when there are other candidates for the nomination who would appear to be willing to run a more open, democratic government.

[bigwillq]

7. Sen. Clinton is not an alternative

to the current administration.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. FIXED

Sen. Clinton is a positive alternative to the current administration.


Thank you.

[Joe the Revelator]

14. She has yet to prove that...

...you know what else sucks? To see that you've become such a shill for such a weak candidate. I've enjoyed your posts since at least last cycle. You're one of the last people on here that I would expect to fall for Hillary's dog and pony show.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. I'm Sorry I Disappointed You

My motivations are a bit different...


Let me preface my remarks by saying there is nothing I want more than a Democrat in the White House...

Now that we have disposed of that I am committed to winning and I see Hillary and the Clinton Machine as the best vehichle to win back the White House... I expect my candidate or team to do, anything, anything to win as long as it doesn't involve harming those weaker or vulnerable..

[Mother Of Four]

32. To Wolsh and Democratsincebirth

I lurk ALOT...and I really need to say this. Demsincebirth doesn't strike me as any kind of "shill" etc. Their position is it's imperative to them that we have a DEMOCRAT in the whitehouse, any democrat...rather than a Republican.

From reading, Dem please correct me if I'm wrong, if this poster thought that Edwards, Obama, Biden etc could pull this off better they would support them as they support the Clinton Campaign.

It's not Clinton that Dem supports...(Do I have this right Demsincebirth?) its more of a "I'm behind the one I think can best win the GE, because we can't get this wrong this time"

For the record, I'm not a Clinton supporter...I'm still moving between Edwards, Obama..and now Biden especially after how well and to the point Biden was in the debates.

Now, I may be totally off base with this...Text is a terrible thing as far as the "unspoken" communication. IE Facial expression, body language, and tone of voice. So again, Dem, Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[illinoisprogressive]

12. exactly. alot of similarities to bush. alot.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

16. This is gibberish

Candidates don't "take criticism of his/her positions" in campaigns, and if they do they are stone losers, with no hope of every winning a contested election. Period.

[Joe the Revelator]

19. This has already been addressed Kurt....

...but there is a marked difference between a normal candidates response which would be to get back on message, and get back on the attack, and a weaker candidates response, which is to blame everyone, including the moderator, for her shortcomings and inability to answer questions. Good candidates don't cry because they were attacked, they come back kicking ass.

Is she going to take a page out of Bush's book and start banning anyone from her appearances that doesn't agree with her?

[cali]

20. that's just silly.

she didn't cry. she issued a press release to try and garner some advantage from have 6 other people attack her. It's just smart politics. And she's the most disciplined of all the candidates. She really hasn't had a hard time staying on message.

The comparison with bush is just hyperbole.

[Joe the Revelator]

21. I think you're wrong on all accounts

show me a strong candidate past or present who has whined in the face of a little competition as much as Hillary has.


And the similarities between Bush and Hillary are striking.

[cali]

23. Perception is all. That's merely your perception of

things. It doesn't make it true. I don't see her as having whined in the face of competition, so I'm in no hurry to to give you examples of candidates who have "whined". And simply saying there are striking similarities between the two, is not making a case for it.

You know what's funny about this to me? I don't support Clinton. There is no way I'd vote for her in the primary. But I don't have the visceral reaction to her that you clearly do. Or that so many others on DU have. I have come to have a really strong distaste for bullshit attacks on her though. The kind of crap you're mouthing, isn't criticism, it's just flinging whatever, desperately.

[Joe the Revelator]

26. I'm not desperate in the slightest...

I'm a single issue voter this election. I want broad support for stem cell research. If that means I have to vote for Hillary then so be it. If the republicans nominate Rudy, then I might have to look closely at other issues.

What I do want though is the best candidate to be nominated. I candidate who has provin that she can not accept criticism and has the same "With me or against me" attitude that the current administration has is not someone I am going to support. In fact it is someone that, in the primaries, I am going to actively speak out against. That is not desperation, it is calling things as I see them.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

24. Thanks for the civil response to an uncivil post

but I'm not buying.

All politicians are scum-bags. Whether we chose to notice it is subjective. If I hated Hillary I would agree with you, but I'm not to that level of dislike yet.

[cali]

25. I'm not buying the "all politicians are scumbags"

that's as meaningless as "all lawyers are scumbags". It might be more accurate to say that all politicians who reach the level of running for prez, behave like scum bags sometimes.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

27. Not asking you to buy it

I'm not sure I even want to persuade anyone on this point. But there is a world of difference between "all politicians are scumbags" and "all lawyers are scumbags"

The difference is that all politicians are, in fact, scumbags.

If you want to set a level, fine... all politicians at the level of state legislature and above are scum-bags. People who lie for a living are defective, and ALL politicians lie for a living. Even the really cool ones. Even the "honest" ones.

You may have a different operational concept of "lie" than I do. It's not a universally defined concept.

[cali]

29. Most people lie. Most people are hypocrites.

It's about how much, not whether. And I've absolutely known and know some politicians in the part time VT Statehouse who are not sbs. And I'd never call my congressional reps that either. Come to think of it, I don't like calling people that. I save such sliming for bushco.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

30. then I am pleased for you

I can imagine some cool people might end up in a part-time legislature in a state where 61% favor impeachment. So I am happy for your experiences with them.

[opihimoimoi]

22. This is crap...sounds like a sneaky plot

[mondo joe]

28. Hillary is the toughest campaigner. Good for her. We've tried the OTHER way

twice now.

[MGKrebs]

33. I think the exact opposite.

So many here seem to want her to give yes or no answers to every issue. Right or wrong, black and white, no gray areas, and when she doesn't they jump up and down and scream "triangulation". But it's a fundamentalist/neocon strategy to try to dumb everything down to good vs. evil.

If we are not sophisticated enough to recognize the complexity of our condition, we will continue to get simple minded leaders with ineffective ideas.