Dennis Kucinich said that he saw a UFO.

[LoZoccolo]

lol

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. I see them all the time.

Sometimes I look up in the sky and I see something that I can't tell whether it's a DC-9-50 or an MD-80; or if it's really far away I can't even be totally sure whether it's an Airbus or a Boeing 737. Sometimes there are lights moving in the sky at night and I don't know what they are. There are lots of flying objects out there that I can't identify. Kucinich said he saw an unidentified flying object. He didn't say he'd seen an alien spacecraft.

[Basileus Basileon]

4. You and I both know that ain't what he meant.

Though I certainly appreciate bumping into someone else that can tell a 737 from an A320 at a glance, that bit about it beaming directions into his mind? Unless Airbus has a hell of a new feature on the A380, I don't think that's quite what he meant.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. LOL!

Actually, I heard the Boeing 787 will have that feature. And even without the mind-beaming thing, I can tell an A319 from an A320 from a considerable distance. But seriously, is it any weirder than Nancy Reagan and her astrologer?

[Orrex]

33. One big difference is that Nancy Reagan wasn't nominally running for elected office

Kucinich, despite his poll numbers, apparently is.

[pnwmom]

5. Unfortunately, Kucinich didn't deny Shirley MacClaine's report

that he had listened to some sort of message from the UFO, and that he had felt some sort of connection in his heart. I wish he hadn't left that part of Russsert's question hanging out there.

[LoZoccolo]

7. Do they hover for ten minutes and then speed away?

lol

[cboy4]

15. Good point. I know how Dennis feels...

you sound like you know that they're retrofitting a lot of the B757-200's with blended winglets now to increase fuel efficiency and range.

So they can very easily be misidentified if a person is not aware of this.

[Basileus Basileon]

21. While I like the idea in theory,

I would hate to be on one of the trans-atlantic 757-200s; that would just feel claustrophobic. On the other hand, the 757-300 is, in my eyes, the most gorgeous airplane ever built. Pictures don't do it justice.

[cboy4]

36. Yes, the 300 being a heavy aircraft as opposed to the

752, a non heavy.

But even though the 752 is not a heavy aircraft, I'm sure you realize ATC still advises caution wake turbulence for other aircraft
because of the incredible wake vortices produced by the 757-200.

You see, this could be mistaken for a UFO by some people:


757-200 Thomas Cook Airlines

[ulysses]

2. Clinton thought NAFTA was a good idea.

[bleever]

10. Good one.

:rofl:

[Double T]

3. Let's hope for All of our sake that we are NOT the only 'intelligent' life..........

in ALL the universe; we would certainly be a piss poor example.

[Debi]

6. I wonder why a question about this belonged in a presidential debate

Hell, they already don't give Dennis any time - now the only time they give him is to ask him questions about UFOs?

What's next? Hey Joe, we're not gonna ask you a policy question we want to know if you really do like Italian food. Hillary, how do you find accecories to match your nice pantsuits? Oh John, YOu said you belived in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, what do you have against the Easter Bunny? Chirs, do you bleach your hair?

[LoZoccolo]

9. Hey Dennis, what were those directions that the aliens gave you?

lol

[Debi]

17. They said vote for Hillary Clinton, she is inevitable

[Orrex]

14. If a candidate has wacky beliefs, should these be glossed-over by the press?

If, for instance, Sen. Clinton believed that the economy was driven by invisible green rabbits whose motives are unknowable, would that be something that the press should comment upon?

Kucinich's many wacky beliefs are entirely appropriate fodder for discussion, even if such discussion seems like an attack or an attempt to ridicule.

[Debi]

18. I didn't realize that he had stated he planned on seeking advice from the

inhabitants of the UFO in domestic and foreign policy. To NOT believe that there is life outside of our universe is wacky and myopic. Kucinich never said he planned on inviting them to a state dinner.

[Orrex]

34. That's both a straw man AND a non sequitur

I didn't realize that he had stated he planned on seeking advice from the inhabitants of the UFO in domestic and foreign policy.

Nor did I make that claim. But that bit about "touching his heart and mind" (however it was described) frankly gives me the willies.

That's a lot different from simply claiming to have seen something that hasn't been unidentified. Thus far he hasn't explicitly denied MacLaine's account of the alleged event; I would be interested to know why he has not done so.

To NOT believe that there is life outside of our universe is wacky and myopic.

What the heck does that even mean? Name for me something that actually exists and is outside of our universe. Then we'll discuss whether belief in it is wacky.

[penguin7]

19. Kucinich deserves a chance to respond

[Orrex]

35. By all means let him do so

Let him state unambiguously whether or not he was in some form of mental communication with an alien spacecraft, and in so doing let him explicitly confirm or deny MacLaine's account of the alleged episode.

Once he's done that, let's get him formally on the record about his beliefs in the societal efficacy of Transcendental Meditation.

And then let's ask him why he flip-flopped on abortion rights.


Let him respond to all of these legitimate questions, and many more.

[Nuntius_Barbari]

40. He had the chance right then...... he made a joke..... I think it was a joke

He said he was moving his HQ to Roswell. I think he meant it as a joke but he had no change in expression. That was bad. He was on O'Reilly; he can smile, he can be witty. But he needs to stay on the ball with things like the UFO thing.

[Orrex]

47. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[penguin7]

48. They cut him off.

He did not have a fair chance to respond.

[tesla78]

30. What is wacky about it?

Pilots, astronauts, police officers, military and other credible sources have seen UFOs. Some are unexplained while others are obvious spacecraft. Whether or not there are little green men or military test pilots behind the controls is another matter.

[penguin7]

16. And they cut him off answering.

He did deny the account. Listen to it again.

[Debi]

20. Well, to be fair they had to cut him off

they needed to get back to asking everyone else what they thought of Clinton's health care/Iraq/Iran/college/etc. plan :eyes: Can't be giving time to the lower tier now, can we???

[Dhalgren]

22. Deb, just between you and me, this thread is an example of why my

ignore list just keep growing and growing. These morons can't debate about Dennis' policies and ideas, so they stoop to silly, childish crap like this. Ridicule simply displays the dearth of ideas in those who feel they must ridicule. I won't have anything to do with simpletons like this...

[Debi]

23. I almost don't care that it's talked about here on DU

I mean this is an open forum and we should discuss whatever we wish (I shamefully have discussed how beautiful his wife is - like THAT has anything to do w/being president!). But when a candidate only gets 7 minutes on national television to let American know why they should support him in his quest for the nomination (or to define his policies or his voting record) and the only thing the moderators can come up with is - heh heh you saw a UFO??? - that's bullshit. Let the jokes and bs rage here on DU. but Russert and Williams (and whoever wrote the stupid question) should be ashamed of themselves.

[laststeamtrain]

11. ...and Ralph Nader was the pilot! And it was going really, really fast!...

...but it was very, very safe.

[laststeamtrain]

12. Dupe

dupe

[rjones2818]

13. I love the people who'd rather Dennis had lied.

:evilgrin:

[Bonobo]

24. What does UFO mean? It means "unidentified". LOL! Sum peeple=dumasses.

[LoZoccolo]

25. It sure does.

But triangle-shaped, hovering for ten minutes, speeding away, and beaming messages to someone's brain = space aliens, lol.

[Bonobo]

26. Is that how he described it? Seriously? Can you provide a link?

[LoZoccolo]

27. From none other than Ms. Out On A Limb herself.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1193128634148360.xml&coll=2

[Bonobo]

29. Let me get this straight. I am supposed to take Shirley McLean's word that HE saw it? LOL!

[LoZoccolo]

31. "Hillary never gives us a straight answer about anything!"

"Um, but like, just because he said it was a UFO doesn't mean he ever thought it was aliens from outer space."

lol

[Bonobo]

32. Dude, it is possible to see something that you can't explain you know.

There are reliable reports.

What about O'hare airport in December of 06?

[Basileus Basileon]

37. Oh, man, that one was all over the papers for a while.

Meteorologists eventually decided, IIRC, that it was a small, short-lived funnel cloud--that would push aside the clouds as described, and appear from below to be a white, round object hovering above. That would also explain why it didn't appear on radar, nor did it give off any sort of radiation or have any sort of electromagnetic field.

[2rth2pwr]

28. Who can forget this Kucinich classic?

" A question: Why reach for the stars with guns in our hands? Are there weapons of mass destruction on Mars?"

http://www.space4peace.org/articles/kucinich_bill.htm

[Moloch]

38. Wow.

What an embarrassment to our party. I'm all in favor of kucinich being allowed to debate, but they should put him in a separate debate so he can discuss this sort of nonsense with lyndon larouche and other joke candidates. I mean, we got rid of gravel..

[Bright Eyes]

39. I heard the UFO that Kucinich saw was on it's way

to give John Edwards a $400 haircut.

[Judi Lynn]

41. What a shame cheap, ignorant opportunists rush to seize on any bit of info. which can be tossed

around and exploited to harm someone they don't like, while avoiding the life and death, deadly serious issues which MUST be addressed above all else.

As I told my husband, seeing Chris Matthews' idiotic jack-o-lantern face yokking it up about Dennis Kucinich's UFO claim, "You can always count on these ASSHOLES to revel in and exploit things which only embarrass and defeat people, and truly couldn't matter less." These people are lower than maggots, and add far less of value to the world.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enrique]

43. he was sucking up to Shirley Maclaine

that's what I think.

[LoZoccolo]

45. I wonder why this didn't happen at someone's house who doesn't believe weird things.

It's interesting that I haven't seen one of Mr. Honest Guy's supporters tell us that he might have been lying to Shirley MacClaine.

[riqster]

44. Meanwhile, Left-Leaning Dems have no better candidate than DK

...which is why everyone piles on at the slightest pretext. He supports the people over the plutocrats, and is a loyal Dem to boot. Verrrrrrrrrrry dangerous, indeed.

People screamed about Muny light, remember, and many years later admitted that he was right.

[Orrex]

46. Not quite

It may be true that Kucinich is the most left-leaning contender for the nomination, but that's not "why everyone piles on." A lot of factors make him a non-viable candidate, not least among them being this episode with the UFO. His flip-flop on abortion rights is a major sticking point for some, and it can't be overlooked that he's never polled much into the double digits. Is all of this the fault of the mainstream media?

[riqster]

50. The UFO thing is certainly the fault of the MSM

...as it was a deliberate attempt to cast scorn upon him. Seriously, do you think there's no connection with his coomments about Bush's sanity? Get real. DK's numbers are going up, and that makes a lot of right-wing assholes nervous, so they start to smear him. Nothing substantive, just more swiftboating.

As to abortion: he's the BEST candidate for the Left, not the perfect one. Ain't no such animal. Having said that, I'd feel a helluva lot better with DK defending my daughters' right to choose than, say, Mitt Romney.

[Orrex]

52. Is "the UFO thing" true or not?

If it's true, then it's Kucinich's fault, and not the MSM's.

If it's not true, then Kucinich must sue the MSM for libel and/or slander.

DK's numbers are going up

Sure--and at this rate he might exceed the margin of error by Primary day.

Lots of people have questioned the sanity of this administration. Charlie Rangel has publicly stated his view that Cheney is mentally ill, but I don't hear anyone accusing Rangel of communing with UFO's.

I note that many (most?) of Kucinich's supporters here on DU take the view that either you must support Kucinich, or else you've been poisoned by the MSM. That sort of black/white delusion is fundamentalist nonsense.

The simple fact is that Kucinich is unelectable all by himself even before the MSM starts any campaign against him.

[Progressive Friend]

55. He scares the right-wingers inside of our party as well

This thread's existence is proof of that.

[LoZoccolo]

56. Right-wingers in our party...

You mean the 98% who are not going to vote for him? lol

[riqster]

62. Well, by Right-Wing I mean fuckwits like Rahm Emmanuel

...who fucked up the DuPage election last year, and consistently works to marginalize anyone who isn't on the Right Wing of the Dem party. Granted, that ain't Ann Coulter Right-wingnutty, but in context the Dem Establishment is not friendly to the hard left.


Can DK win? Highly unlikely. But he fulfills a crucial need in the Democratic Party, to address the rather large constituency of large-L Liberals who are treated with contempt by the MOR/Rightwing Dems who dominate the party and message. (This thread is a good example.) And he addresses it while remaining loyal to the party and supporting our eventual nominee. Unlike that asshole Nader who tries to weaken the Dems, DK acts to strengthen it by enlarging the tent.

Lots of loyal Dems are hard left, and they need to be included, not driven away.

Those of us who remember his days as Mayor know all about Dennis's strengths and weaknesses, and if you aren't familiar with Cleveland you should be told this: we have loooooooooooooong memories. We carry a chip on our collective shoulder, are very demanding and believe you me, if DK wasn't effective, he'd have been out on his ass many years ago. He does very well across a large cross-section of his district because he IS pragmatic. Yes, he will tilt at the odd windmill when it doesn't interfere with the conduct of his duties, but when it's time to get down to it, he's a helluva negotiator, and takes good care of his constituency. And it always turns out, later on, that he had a very shrewd motivation for the evidently Quixotic acts he did in times gone by. Muny Light is the most-often cited example. He got eviscerated for it, but he was later proven to be right. Clevelanders admire scrappy fighters who take care of their own, we love underdogs, and we really fucking hate bullshit artists and pablum peddlers.

Does he believe in UFOs? We could give a shit. Is his wife better looking than him? Good one, Dennis, you must be packing, and we never guessed it. Is he partisan? Damn right, and so are we. Anybody who remembers how we kicked the asses of New York and El Lay to get the Rock Hall where it belongs should think long and hard about fucking with us. Buncha effing whining lightweights in the 'major markets' got their balls handed to them by us, and DK is cut from the same cloth. Partisan, combative, David facing Goliath, skinny little kid who kicks the bully's ass, crusader, all of these are admirable qualities to us. Do we want a tactical compromiser in the early rounds? Hell no! We want somebody to take it to the opposition and open up a can of whoop ass. Time enough to make deals later on, AFTER you see how much you can get in a straight fight.

And Clevelanders aren't the only ones who feel this way. Lots of people who write off politicos as terminal fence-sitters get energized by someone like DK and get involved where they otherwise might not. He’ll push the dialog and platform left a bit, and by doing so gains us much-needed votes in the General.

[independentpiney]

49. Saying he saw a UFO doesn't bother me

Being close friends with Shirley McClain bothers me quite a bit.

[Uncle Joe]

51. What is so funny about Unidentified Flying Object?

Or put another way, if you see something flying but can't identify what that object is, why is that hilarious or as Russert would insinuate insane? I believe Russert did this for one reason and one reason only to take the focus away from Bush's questionable sanity.

[western mass]

53. Next he'll say he saw WMD...

in Iraq! The nut!

[flvegan]

54. And some build a basis here on a lust for Oasis.

Go figure.

:shrug:

[Vidar]

57. Shows he is open-minded, willing to entertain all possibilities--yet another

mark in his favor.

[Red Knight]

58. Yeah that's funny

He also believes in universal healthcare, ending the war in Iraq, impeaching Bush, peace instead of preemption and a lot of other silly ideas that are just crazy to candidates like Clinton.

Russert did his job--nice hit piece to swat the one candidate really going after Bush.

The amazing thing is how many Dems fell for it. Even Jon Stewart called him the "Sanjaya" of the group and wondered aloud how long he'd be in the competition.

Bush's mouthpiece Russert got what he wanted.

"Keep quiet, Dennis. We can get you too."

And so many Dems go along for the ride.

No wonder this party is in trouble.

[LoZoccolo]

59. This whole debacle exposes a weak point in the strategy of Kucinich supporters.

If you try to promote all those things through a person, then your ability to promote them sinks when that person sinks. There are many other ways to get support for those things that don't carry that risk.

[LoZoccolo]

60. And, I will add...

...that if you get widespread public support and understanding for something like universal healthcare, you will have not one candidate supporting it, but almost every one.

[dionysus]

61. dude you're totally pathetic

go play with your nader voodoo doll.