What Hillary Clinton said -- from transcript.

[Sparkly]

Seriously -- it isn't that complicated!!

MR. RUSSERT: Thank you, Brian.

Senator Clinton, Governor of New York Eliot Spitzer has proposed giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. You told the Nashua, New Hampshire editorial board it makes a lot of sense. Why does it make a lot of sense to give an illegal immigrant a driver's license?

SEN. CLINTON: Well, what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is fill the vacuum left by the failure of this administration to bring about comprehensive immigration reform. We know in New York we have several million at any one time who are in New York illegally. They are undocumented workers. They are driving on our roads. The possibility of them having an accident that harms themselves or others is just a matter of the odds. It's probability. So what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is to fill the vacuum.

I believe we need to get back to comprehensive immigration reform because no state, no matter how well-intentioned, can fill this gap.

There needs to be federal action on immigration reform.

Dodd was the only one who disagreed and said that driver's licenses are a privilege, etc. To this she tried to clarify. It seems she didn't want to go on record as advocating driver's licenses as the ultimate solution. That led to a back and forth, and she stated her position again.

SEN. CLINTON: You know, Tim, this is where everybody plays gotcha. It makes a lot of sense. What is the governor supposed to do? He is dealing with a serious problem. We have failed, and George Bush has failed.

Do I think this is the best thing for any governor to do? No. But do I understand the sense of real desperation, trying to get a handle on this? Remember, in New York we want to know who's in New York. We want people to come out of the shadows. He's making an honest effort to do it. We should have passed immigration reform.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/us/politics/30debate-transcript.html?pagewanted=37&_r=1&bl&ei=5087&en=69e9c3808c54e67d&ex=1193976000

[BootinUp]

1. When you are running a near perfect campaign

the slightest perceived crack probably looks like the grand canyon to your opponents.

[ElizabethDC]

3. Yep, you hit the nail on the head. n/t

[Inspired]

7. A near perfect campaign doesn't equate to a good POTUS.

I can't believe people defend this candidate

[BootinUp]

9. When will you believe it?

Maybe I'll get the chance to ask you some time down the road after all the left wing nonsense predictions about what kind of President she will be have not come to pass.

[Inspired]

14. Left wing nonsense?

OMG.

[BootinUp]

16. shocking eh?

:rofl:

[superkia]

37. Thats what I dont understand, its all about a good campaign and...

not about who is the best person to decide our children's future. I think many people have lost touch with what these elections are for and think its just like a sport and wanting a certain team to win and then its over? I am confused why people believe a great campaign equals a great POTUS no matter what the person campaigning is doing or saying. Unbelievable, these same people will be voting on who has a great control of the direction of our country and our children's future...scary!

[BootinUp]

46. Whats scary to me too

A careful examination of the 3 top candidates records would ease any reasonable democrats mind about Hillary Clinton. I know the least about Obama for instance, but what I do know he is no flaming liberal darling of the netroots. And for that matter Edwards isn't either, with him its really just about the campaign. Who knows what you get after he is elected. He scares me because his personal compass is fucked up. At least Hillary and Obama seem to have a long record of consistent performance.

[ProSense]

10. It's near perfect when everyone pretends the other missteps don't exist.

Hillary's Huge Gaffe, Kyl-Lieberman, and others.

It's curious to me that so many people and the media can harp on Kerry's awkward statement about the $87 billion vote, which was easily explained and wasn't a change in position, but Clinton goes through misstep after misstep and is running a "flawless" campaign.

There are reasons why she gets criticized by Democratic voters for her statements and votes.

[BootinUp]

15. I saw nothing of interest there, honest n/t

[cuke]

17. So it's wrong, not because it's wrong, but because she's wrong about something else

That makes a certain kind of sense

nonsense

[ProSense]

18. No it's wrong because ignoring flaws don't mean they don't exist. n/t

[cuke]

21. You're becoming incoherent

We're talking about Spitzer's proposal and what Hillary said about it. She said she think it's a good idea but that she would not do it as president. As president she will push for comprehensive immigration reform with a path to citizenship.

And you think she's wrong because you think she's wrong on K/L and other things. You don't even have an argument that has anything to do with Spitzer's proposal, the point of the OP

[ProSense]

22. Insults will get you

nowhere: On Second Thought: Clinton endorses Spitzer plan.

[cuke]

24. You're still incoherent

Clinton has said several times that Spitzer's plan is a good idea. And you say she is wrong, but give no reason except that she was wrong on other things.

[ProSense]

27. "She never said it shoud be done. She said it makes sense"

Who is "incoherent"?

She endorsed it!

[cuke]

31. You're still incoherent

Those statements are not inconsistent

[ProSense]

34. I know, they are yours:

see.

[cuke]

35. And not inconsistent

She supports Spitzer's response because of bush*'s failure on the issue, but will not push for giving DL's to immigrants as president.

All is consistent, but it's hard to know that when you're incoherent

[ProSense]

36. "She never said it should be done," she just endorsed it.

If that's consistent to you, then OK

[cuke]

43. That's consistent

She isn't going to do it, but she endorses Gov Spitzer doing it.

What's so hard to understand?

[ProSense]

44. Endorsing mean supporting a plan, which means it should be done.

Your response is spin powered by spinach: super spin!

[cuke]

45. No, it means she supports Gov Spitzer doing it

but she will not do it because she is a US Senator and US Senators deal with things at the Federal level, not the state level. That's the Governor.

[rinsd]

39. After her vote on Ky-Lieberman, her lead went from low 40's to high 40's.

And linking to your own bullshit doesn't magically make it true.

[ProSense]

40. "linking to your own bullshit"

The thread is mine, the links in it are not.

OK, Kyl Lieberman is not a problem for her. She's in the high 40's. Nonimation locked!

[rinsd]

41. No, just that she has run a good disiplined campaign with few mistakes.

Kyl-Lieberman could still be an issue but the other "huge gaffe" was forgotten within a day.

[ProSense]

42. "few misstakes"

Which is the point of my original comment: few (more than two) mistakes that are ignored while labeling her campaign "flawless."

Disciplined is your opinion. I remember the disgusting cat fights between the Obama and Hillary's campaign, which were marked by some questionable statements.

[MethuenProgressive]

13. An invented controversy by the MSM and second tier candidates.

Her answer wasn't that hard to understand - unless you wanted to misrepresent to have something to argue over.

[peacebird]

2. the sections in the middle that you left out contributed to the confusion over HRCs position

SEN. DODD: This is a privilege. And look, I'm as forthright and progressive on immigration policy as anyone here, but we're dealing with a serious problem here, we need to have people come forward. The idea that we're going to extend this privilege here of a driver's license, I think, is troublesome. And I think the American people are reacting to it.

We need to deal with security on our borders, we need to deal with the attraction that draws people here, we need to deal fairly with those who are here; but this is a privilege. Talk about health care, I have a different opinion. That affects the public health of all of us. But a license is a privilege, and that ought not to be extended, in my view.

MR. WILLIAMS: Who else? Senator --

SEN. CLINTON: I just want to add, I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do it. And we have failed --

SEN. DODD: Wait a minute. No, no, no. You said yes, you thought it made sense to do it.
SEN. CLINTON: Well, what Governor Spitzer has agreed to do is to have three different licenses; one that provides identification for actually going onto airplanes and other kinds of security issues, another which is an ordinary driver's license, and then a special card that identifies the people who would be on the road.

SEN. DODD: That's a bureaucratic nightmare.

SEN. CLINTON: So it's not the full privilege.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Clinton, I just want to make sure what I heard. Do you, the New York Senator Hillary Clinton, support the New York governor's plan to give illegal immigrants a driver's license? You told the Nashua, New Hampshire, paper it made a lot of sense.

SEN. CLINTON: It --

MR. RUSSERT: Do you support his plan?

[goodgd_yall]

20. Dodd was wrong

Hilary was saying it would make sense to seek the kind of solution Spitzer is considering. This isn't the same as saying it's something she personally is advocating.

[Cameron27]

38. That's what I thought too.

[beaconess]

48. That's exactly what I thought, as well - it wasn't complicated at all

But it was clear that the question was designed not to elicit a substantive answer but to:

1) allow Russert yet another opportunity to try to show what a clever questioner he is;

2) to give him a sound byte and talking point for his appearances on various programs the next day; and

3) to encourage Edwards and Obama to go after her, thereby helping to stir up the drama he and the other pundits have been salivating over for the past several months;

4) to once again, try to focus the audience on the horse race aspect of the campaign instead of drawing out information that would help voters better understand candidates' positions on the issues.

[MGKrebs]

4. If people want simple, easy answers to complex problems, they are more likely

to be interested in fascism or monarchy. This is democracy. All voices get heard, and it's messy sometimes. Not everybody will agree on the right process and politicians, and those in the minority often lose.

[chaumont58]

5. some thoughts about driver's licenses for illegals

I'm California, and we, out here, had a licenses for illegals contreversy the same year that Grey Davis was recalled. I thought then and think now that it is the auto insurance industry that is pushing the licenses. It opens a way for illegals to get auto insurance. I would bet that right now, if an illegal gets into a car accident, he or she will run, leaving the other side to collect from uninsursed portion of their own auto insurance policy. In California, every insursed driver is required to have coverage for uninsured motorists. The accident scenario I mentioned might have been the insured driver's fault, but since the uninsured takes off, it becomes the fault of the fleer.
I'm not connected in anyway to autoinsurance. And, I may be wrong about the uninsursed coverage.

[beaconess]

49. Illegal is an adjective, not a noun . . . n/t

[sandnsea]

6. Let's get all of it

Immediately after she gives the impression she favors Spitzer's plan, she turns right around and says she didn't say it should b done. Here's the rest of the exchange and it is not clear whether she personally supports giving illegals drivers licenses.


"...SEN. CLINTON: I just want to add, I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do it. And we have failed --

SEN. DODD: Wait a minute. No, no, no. You said yes, you thought it made sense to do it.

` SEN. CLINTON: No, I didn't, Chris. But the point is, what are we going to do with all these illegal immigrants who are (driving ?) -- (inaudible)?

SEN. DODD: Well, that's a legitimate issue. But driver's license goes too far, in my view.

SEN. CLINTON: Well, you may say that, but what is the identification if somebody runs into you today who is an undocumented worker --

SEN. DODD: There's ways of dealing with that.

SEN. CLINTON: Well, but --

SEN. DODD: This is a privilege, not a right.

SEN. CLINTON: Well, what Governor Spitzer has agreed to do is to have three different licenses; one that provides identification for actually going onto airplanes and other kinds of security issues, another which is an ordinary driver's license, and then a special card that identifies the people who would be on the road.

SEN. DODD: That's a bureaucratic nightmare.

SEN. CLINTON: So it's not the full privilege.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Clinton, I just want to make sure what I heard. Do you, the New York Senator Hillary Clinton, support the New York governor's plan to give illegal immigrants a driver's license? You told the Nashua, New Hampshire, paper it made a lot of sense.

SEN. CLINTON: It --

MR. RUSSERT: Do you support his plan?

SEN. CLINTON: You know, Tim, this is where everybody plays gotcha. It makes a lot of sense. What is the governor supposed to do? He is dealing with a serious problem. We have failed, and George Bush has failed.

Do I think this is the best thing for any governor to do? No. But do I understand the sense of real desperation, trying to get a handle on this? Remember, in New York we want to know who's in New York. We want people to come out of the shadows. He's making an honest effort to do it. We should have passed immigration reform."

[Sparkly]

8. Right.

Is that what we're parsing? She explained it -- before and after. It shouldn't be the ultimate solution. It shouldn't be needed as it is now. It's not the answer she endorses.

[sandnsea]

11. Other people's defense is the opposite

That she's saying it's acceptable to her.

[Sparkly]

12. Yes, it's acceptable to her.

She said that. :shrug:

[sandnsea]

25. It shouldn't be the answer or solution

but she endorses Spitzer doing it. Okay. Whatever. :crazy:

[Sparkly]

28. That's right.

The answer is comprehensive immigration reform at the federal level, in her view.

[sandnsea]

30. Will that include licenses for illegals?

:shrug:

It's a joke to think we will ever have a strategy that eliminates all illegals.

[cuke]

32. Not at the federal level

At the state level, it's up to the states, but under Hillary they won't need to because Hillary will push for comprehensive immigration reform

[beaconess]

50. Illegal is an adjective, not a noun n/t

[cuke]

19. She never said it shoud be done. She said it makes sense

Some people are just too simple minded to see the difference between saying "something is reasonable" and "something is reasonable but I'm not going to do it"

[wyldwolf]

23. As Keith Olbermann and Craig Crawford just said on Countdown...

Clinton is a policy wonk who know there are no easy answers to most issues and that is how they tend to answer questions.

[sandnsea]

26. Craig Crawford adores Hillary

I haven't taken anything he says seriously in years.

[wyldwolf]

29. ... and Chris Matthews doesn't and you seem to be taking his position.

:shrug:

[cuke]

33. and the repukes position

and repeating the repukes racist "illegal" meme

[Skip Intro]

47. There was nothing wrong with her answer. Edwards and Obama lose.

Its spin from people like Edward's, smiling the whole time while he laid an unfair accusation at her feet.

I see Edwards and Obama in a much harsher light than before. I'd pretty much written Obama off after his dance with the pious bigots, but Edwards - hell, I always thought I had him in the sincere column. Can't believe that anymore. It was a gotcha moment - her statement made perfect sense. Cheap shot by Edwards, creating an impression of something that really didn't happen, by reacting to it as if it did.

Backlash happens.