Why are some Hillary supporters portraying her as a victim?

[jmp]

Does anyone really believe that America wants a President with a victim complex?

Doesn't all this "men ganging up on a woman" crap just set back the womens movement?

Would any self respecting progressive ever demand that the bar be lowered based on gender? Or is this just a DLC thing?

[BeyondGeography]

1. It's a defend Hillary at all costs thing

[insanad]

24. Glaring Mistakes

I said MAYBE, and that's my final answer!!!

I think I have a good picture of what Bill Clinton faces daily when he's being a typical naughty boy. Hilary's face was absolutely reflective of her bristling anger and resentful bitterness as she glared at Obama with daggers that would pierce through a steel and concrete bomb shelter. Imagine if she wins the nomination and then faces the onslaught of the Republicans and other people who don't want her there. We'll have that face, that edgy bitch tone, that harsh rebuke and glaring resentment facing us every day on the news. It's hard enough to have the shit flinging chimpanzee of George Bush gesticulating and goofing daily but at least he's easy to dismiss as the buffoon he is. Having Hilary nag and rant and chide would make me cancel my cable.

When I watch these debates I'm in awe of the stamina and grace that any of these candidates must muster. The questions can set one up for a disaster and a cool head, thoughtful but quick and focused answer must be given. Every nuance of a facial gesture or tick is noted and analyzed for signs of honesty or emotional reaction. Then there's the time limits that force the one answering to give in essence, a committed yes or no, even if there's qualifiers.

From a debate standpoint, from a perspective of who can take charge even when they're not in charge, from a measure of one's grace and quick decisiveness, a sense of humor, an ability to stay on message and turn trick questions in their favor BARACK ROCKS!!!! I loved his response to the UFO thing, his response to the Social Security mess, his Halloween response, and the absolute dignified and intelligent demeanor he exudes when he's on stage. God I hope he can win. Not because I'm caught up in his electrifying charisma, but because his ideas, his leadership, his ability to reflect strength and diplomatic reason are all the kinds of things our nation needs to help us heal from the years of George Bush and his disastrous presidency. If anyone can take this bag of broken glass that is our nations economy, military, and reputation and make a virtual stained glass window to illuminate the goodness that is inherent in America, then I believe Barack Obama can.

[cuke]

28. STOP SPAMMING with your bs cut and paste rant

this is the third time I'm reading that, word for word

[Beausoir]

2. Got a link to back up your assertion?

No?

[jmp]

5. It's all over DU.

Try reading a thread or two.

[Beausoir]

8. No link? I thought so. Yawn.

[cuke]

22. OP is full of shit

Someone pointed out that other people might feel that way, so now JMP is trying to make it out as if there is some campaign to make her a victim

[themaguffin]

23. here's your link: www.democraticunderground.com

[Adelante]

3. Are you talking about me?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3667207&mesg_id=3667207

I'm not a Hillary supporter. I simply posed a question about public response to an image.

[jmp]

11. Among others.

And it's not the first time. Every time Hillary gets her nose bloodied, out come her supporters playing the damsel in distress card.

I'm sick of it. You can't be a victim and President.

[Adelante]

17. And you can have a thought in your head about Hillary

Without being a Hillary supporter.

[hijinx87]

13. exactly.

you made a thoughtful observation, and people's heads
exploded.

[cuke]

25. Rabid animal reactions

Say the word Hillary, and the attack begins. In a thread about Obama going after Hillary about the arcives issue, one poster starts talking about her positions on war, as if that has anything to do with the thread

They hear her name, and they reflexively dump their Id on a thread

[oasis]

4. A team that has to battle the opponent AND the referees, but still wins, is no victim.

;-)

[Colobo]

30. True. However, Hillary lost.

[oasis]

40. She may have lost the battle but she'll most certainly win the war. (nt)

[gorekerrydreamticket]

6. Better put on your flame retardant suit.....

and some rubber boots for the b/s.

[Moochy]

18. Seems civil so far

:scared:

[OHdem10]

7. The better approach would be to spin it--Hilary is tough enough

to take on all the guys and still remain standing.

[hijinx87]

9. why are some anti-hillaryites misrepresenting the point?

I have seen two people point out that the electorate may
not respond very positively to seeing men attacking female
candidates. no one is getting their panties in a wad over it,
other than you.

in fact, I went out of my way to point out that politics is
a rough business, and she is fair game.

it's shit like this that makes it impossible to have a rational
discussion about anything worth talking about around here. someone
wanders by and poisons an otherwise civil conversation.

[mtnsnake]

10. Who said anything about men ganging up on a woman, other than you? nt

[jgraz]

12. Why do you hate women? Why do you want Rudy Giuliani to be president?

You're really a Republican, aren't you? Or maybe a Green. Yeah, that's it, a Green.



Just thought I'd get all the pro-Hillary responses out of the way so we could have a real discussion.

[aquart]

14. What a redolent platter of pasture pastry.

Ignore the sexism because that's "lowering the bar"??? Or ignore it because progressives can never face their own bigotry?

Is there no slander that won't be heaped upon this woman for her audacious courage, to punish her for so much ambition?

Have a nice meadow muffin before crawling back under that rock.

[jmp]

16. Sexism to ask a woman tough questions???

Sexism to demand a straight answer from a Presidential candidate?

Give me a break!

[Maribelle]

32. Tough questions -or- gotcha questions? You seem to be somewhat confused.

Asking someone their opinion on issues is a great distance from your pomp "to demand a straight answer".

[jmp]

36. Every question is a gotcha question ...

When your answer varies depending on your audience and which way the wind happens to be blowing at any point in time.

Not only is it acceptable to try to pin a candidate down ... the press would be negligent if it didn't.

[Maribelle]

46. Sadly,the main attempt to pin Hillary down focused on the actions of a governor. Meaningless crap.

In essence, it really doesn't matter one way or the other what Hillary's opinion is of this when the blame is squarely on the shrugging shoulders of the corrupt Bush administration, and the governor is merely attempting to keep his head above water.

Hillary's answers do not vary from her stand on the issues that matter most to her campaign.

A debate is not supposed to be about pinning a candidate down. A debate is supposed to be about points and counter points over important issues. A debate is supposed to be about facts that support your points.

"The press" fails in moderating the debates - - I would hope to see future debates not run by the Bush sock puppets. I would hope to see real debates.

To no thanks to Russert and Williams last night, not even one tiny iota, we heard about the enormous threat of Pakistani. This would be the classic example of what debates should be about, now wouldn't it?

I want to hear this type of information. Not the plethora of petty crap that happened the rest of the evening.

[jgraz]

19. And right on cue...

:rofl:

[cuke]

29. No, no sexism

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3667327#3667435

just a discussion of her policies

[zulchzulu]

15. CNN Radio News referred to the Philly Debate as...

...that other Democrats "picked on the former First Lady last night..."

I'll try to grab the audio; it was on the 9AM newsbreak on the local AAR station here.

Picking on her? :shrug: What is this? A pajama party?

The meme is that the big sweaty men are picking on poor Lil' Hill...

Debate frame: Everyone picking on Hillary?
The latest Democratic debate is tonight at 9 pm in Philadelphia on NBC. Obama and Edwards have indicated that they plan to try to sharpen differences with Clinton on Social Security, Iraq, Iran, taking money from lobbyists etc., and the Clinton campaign is doing its best to frame this as "desperate attacking guys go negative."

Here's a Mark Penn memo, and here's an advance that frames the debate just like Clinton wants: "Clinton Gets Ready To Be Rumbled." Even Bill Richardson seems to be acting as a surrogate (or vice-presidential wannabe?), saying in an interview today, "I think that Senators Obama and Edwards should concentrate on the issues and not on attacking Senator Clinton."

This, as many have noted, is an old Clinton trick. For a woman who is not running as a woman, she and her surrogates have played the victim awfully well when attacked in her Senate races by men, and it's a natural card for any frontrunner to play. On top of that, there's a history of negative attacks backfiring in Iowa -- where the race is still tight.

That being said, there's no campaign if you can't criticize your opponent, is there? Maybe Clinton is warning them not to do it because she's worried that they will.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/politics/blog/2007/10/debate_frame_everyone_picking.html

[Alamom]

41. Kuch's UFO sighting is getting more press and air time....nm

[Bitwit1234]

20. Why are some Obama supporters portraying him as a saint

If you looked at his voting record you see it was tarnished.

[PollM]

21. Democratic Debate in Philadelphia

"I think that our responsibility as presidential candidates is to be in 'tell the truth' mode all the time," Edwards said.

Which candidate do you believe was the least honest & least forthcoming during the Debate?
---> http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=846

.

[Maribelle]

26. I truly believe Hillary is proud of how the men are ganging up on her. No victim there.

It seems to me the more the "men ganging up on a woman" syndrome is perpetuated, the higher her numbers soar.

And our Hillary is soaring.

[jmp]

34. I'm not even sure I understand your response.

...

[Maribelle]

35. Of course you don't.

Try replying when you have a clue about how woman have suffered through adversities to become like the Phoenix rising from the ashes.

Women are proud they are now more beautiful than before.

[jmp]

37. "when you have a clue about how woman have suffered"

OK, now I understand what you meant.

[Maribelle]

44. You missed the "to become" part. I knew you would.

My great grandmothers paved the way for women today. Please try to keep up. The Phoenix is rising.

[BootinUp]

27. Mud slinging politics is nothing new,

Its effects are well known. Both the attackee and the attacker get tarnished to varying degrees. Can you point to any where that Hillary played the victim card? Or is that just your fantasy?

[cuke]

31. Fantasy combined with deceit

near the top, WesDem links to the post that so mortified jmp. You can see it for yourself

[Cameron27]

33. I thought Biden won,

and I don't think this was Clinton's best debate, but there was an anti-Hillary bias IMO. Russert framed his questions as a set up, "John Edwards, you said blah, blah, blah, about Senator Clinton" and then sat back and let Edwards take it from there. He did the same thing with Obama and Dodd. When the moderation's so off-balanced, the fight isn't fair.

That said, this was Edwards' best debate and he took the most swings at Clinton, Obama rallied very well at the end, Richardson bored me, which he's done in every single debate, and Kucinich seemed subdued. Dodd had an excellent performance, he just didn't get enough time.

But Biden won.

[zulchzulu]

38. More on the Poor Me Meme

This is getting funny...

Hillary Rodham Clinton's rivals ganged up on her during a two-hour Democratic presidential debate Tuesday night, putting the front-runner on defense on issues ranging from Iraq and Iran to Social Security and whether she would be electable in the general election.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071031/D8SK33080.html

[Frances]

39. I think the MSM looks for something to bait people with

Sometimes it's the victim thing. Sometimes it's that she is too man-like.

Frankly, I think the victim thing works in Hillary's favor.

When viewers perceive that Hillary is under attack, then they admire her strength.

However, when she is not being attacked, her strength can be a real disadvantage. She can be portrayed as a ball-breaker. It is much harder for Hillary to defend against that line of attack.

[itsrobert]

42. Good question

I was going to ask the same thing.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LanternWaste]

45. Don't pretty much all supporters paint their chosen candidate as a victim

Don't pretty much all supporters paint their chosen candidate as a victim when something doesn't go their way?

From where I sit, the martyr complex is a pretty useful rhetorical tool on DU. I don't think any one candidate (or their supporters) has a monopoly on it.



But I'm sure that in the case of (insert most vilified candidate of your choice here), it's actually true, and in the case of (insert candidate you support here), it's a vicious operation put out by CoinIntelPro and the RNC. Because why would anyone want (insert most vilified candidate of your choice here) as President, when we all know ONLY (insert candidate you support here) has the support, the answers and the drive to lead this country back to it's former (insert righteous adjective here).