Time Magazine debate review gives Hillary Clinton a grade: C-

[zulchzulu]

I think the review is about where I thought her performance was pretty accurate.

Hillary Clinton
Grade: C-

Fell off the tough-shrill balance beam onto the "shrill" side — with a THUD. More defensive than usual, and at times too political and too hot tempered. Borderline disastrous moment at the end when she gave an equivocal answer about drivers licenses for illegal immigrants in New York; it opened the door for her opponents to pounce by turning it into a character issue — and pounce they did. The failure of her performance was cumulative, however, so only those watching the whole debate would see how weak her evening was. If she loses the nomination, tonight will go down in history as the first step to her defeat — no fatal "Dean Scream" catastrophe, but far from her finest moment, to say the least.
—by Mark Halperin

http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1678242_1678241_1678236,00.html

Other reviews:

John Edwards
Grade: A
Impressively he remained above the Clinton-Obama fray (no "look at me" antics) but swept in to best them while the media waited for the pair to duke it out. Calm and cool, he went after Clinton on (let's face it) character, and only occasionally seemed to be trying too hard. Hit both his Democratic and Republican targets with acute precision and impact. Appeared tough enough to perform well in a general election, with the kind of articulate passion he formerly demonstrated in the courtroom. Came across as presidential, optimistic and patriotic — essential for a winner.

Barack Obama
Grade: B+
All eyes were on him for the first answer of the debate as he was invited to attack Clinton (a challenge cleverly disguised as a question). But he cluttered his response with too many of his (unfortunate) trademark "uhs" and a rehearsed Rocky joke, and glanced nervously over at Clinton to gauge the effects of his soft swipe. Gained strength as the debate progressed (and as Edwards and the others joined the Clinton hunt). Had his finest moment — and nearly lived up to the press corps' lust for attack — when he addressed the controversy of sealed documents at the Clinton Library and the Senator's long, divisive history. Offered powerful responses denouncing fear and celebrating diplomacy but likely appealed more to his existing supporters than to potential new recruits. In the final moments, he knocked the daffy-but-intriguing UFO question out of the park by focusing on the importance of life on earth.

Joe Biden
Grade: B
Had line of the night slamming Giuliani on 9/11 ("There's only three things he mentions in a sentence: a noun and a verb and 9/11. I mean, there's nothing else") and saying the former mayor is unqualified to be president. In that instance, he was at his best: so great and so honorable, in his own wacky way. But lacked his Iraq mojo from past debates — and he seemed to disappear for a very long stretch in the middle of the forum.

Chris Dodd
Grade: B-
Solid and dignified. Got to make his best pitch on electability, and did it as well as he has in any debate. But still too senatorial and spent too much talking about the nation's challenges and not enough about himself — a problem, because people still don't know who he is or what he stands for.

Bill Richardson
Grade: B-
Gallantly defended Clinton from negative attacks, allowing him to display his more natural and relaxed side than he has in previous debates. Bumble-free, kept things simple and direct, and highlighted his gubernatorial status and diplomatic strengths. Nevertheless, simply not a player most of the time.

Dennis Kucinich
Grade: D+
Took advantage of NBC's decision to exclude Mike Gravel from the debate by acting more measured than usual. Was a gentle, spritely populist on health care and the war. Tried to go mainstream in talking about UFOs (despite gingerly acknowledging a sighting as reported by his friend Shirley MacLaine), but was shut out of the key conversations by the moderators.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1678242_1678241_1678231,00.html

[Catherine Vincent]

1. That's their opinion.

Kucinich a D+??? Wtf?

[SteppingRazor]

5. Time made the point that the low grade is because he was essentially shut out of the debate. n/t

[zulchzulu]

16. That's what I hated about the debate

It seemed like those on either side of Edwards, Clinton or Obama were ignored for long periods of time. That and some of the stupid questions at the end... there was no "closing statement" part at the end either.

[GreenArrow]

39. I don't think Halperin made any connections

between the questions Kucinich got and his performance. Indeed, Biden got a "B" even though he "seemed to disappear for a very long stretch in the middle of the forum". I think it's more likely that Halperin simply doesn't like Kucinch for in nearly everyone of his post-debate recaps, he grades Kucinich badly or insults him.

Anyway, it's hardly Kucinich's fault that the "moderators" chose not to ask him any questions.

[mikelgb]

35. yeah D+

"but was shut out of the key conversations by the moderators."

[Colobo]

2. Great! Edwards did win, and Obama had a strong performance as well!

[Botany]

3. Go John Edwards an A

:bounce:

Came across as presidential, optimistic and patriotic — essential for a winner.

*************************
Hillary got a C-


But wait untill the Clinton Crew climbs on this thread and tells us that bull shit on toast
is a country style apple butter.

[peacebird]

4. I would give Edwards and Obama "A", and Biden a "B+"

Agree with HIllary's C-, too much dodging and too many straw men answers

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SteppingRazor]

6. Yeah, she lost last night, but ...

given her 30-point lead and her winning performance in most of the other debates, is last night enough to have any real effect? Debates do become more meaningful the closer we get to election day, but I don't know that this is enough to put Edwards or Obama even close to overtaking her, even in Iowa, where her razor-thin lead has widen in recent polls.

It's a good start for both Edwards and Obama, but they need to build on it quick.

[Colobo]

7. This is the beginning for the turnaround...

Hillary shall be exposed.

[SteppingRazor]

8. Maybe so. Just one of those things that time will have to tell. n/t

[GreenArrow]

40. It's also possible that Hillary

instead of ignoring her rivals, and more or less turning the other cheek against them, will actually hit back at them. Edwards, in particular, is a ripe target.

[zulchzulu]

9. What was interesting was watching the spin doctors after the debate

The blood was in the water and they were circling around the Clinton life raft.

[SteppingRazor]

11. Of course they were -- a runaway primary is boring.

At this point, the press is a useful anti-Clinton tool, if only because they want an interesting story.

[zulchzulu]

28. People are just starting to get interested in the election

It's like clockwork. After the World Series, people start checking it out...not that they waited until the Series was over, it's just how it seems to work out.

National polls based on name recognition will mean nothing until the first votes are cast. When Clinton places third in Iowa after throwing lots of money and effort into it, her campaign will implode from the weight of the mainstream media that will pull the "Inevitability" rug from under her.

[SteppingRazor]

30. That's true enough that people are just now getting interested...

In fact, the Time piece's critique of Dodd was perhaps its most cogent -- that Dodd spent too much time discussing the nation's problems and not enough discussing his own views, when much of the country still has no clue who he is.

I seriously doubt Clinton will place third in Iowa, though. I can see a scenario where she comes in second -- if she starts to win and either Obama or Edwards can get the other side to jump ship for a victory, leaving her in second place and either Obama or Edwards in a distant third. I dunno. What's your scenario in which Clinton comes in third in Iowa? Anything's possible, of course, but at this point, it doesn't seem likely.

[BootinUp]

10. Halperin is a lying asshole though

so I don't feel bad discarding this in the trash.

[Colobo]

15. Why is he a lier?

[BootinUp]

17. His book (can't remember co-authors name)

about the 2000 and 2004 elections is the worst kind of garbage justifying tripe ever written.

[zulchzulu]

19. Read the reviews on the book

http://www.amazon.com/Way-Win-Taking-White-House/dp/customer-reviews/1400064473/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr/102-6312068-9276969?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&customer-reviews.start=1#customerReviews

I haven't read it, but perhaps you can give some insight on why he's a liar...

[BootinUp]

24. mediamatters.org on halperin

http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/search_results?qstring=halperin

Maybe you should read up too.

[zulchzulu]

26. So is everything Halperin says or writes a "lie" then?

There were a couple links there that I'll check out at some point. Thanks for the link.

[BootinUp]

27. He just gets me quite riled up.

of course he sprinkles in some truth to appear honest. At any rate I disagree with his take on the debate.

[zulchzulu]

29. I disagree with his take on the debate too

I would have given Obama an A.

[GreenArrow]

42. for what it's worth, I think he's an asshole too

and a professional propagandist.

[BeyondGeography]

18. Because he disagrees with Jim

Get with the program, Katz.

[BootinUp]

25. Please don't defend Halperin

I don't want to see you stoop too low.

[BeyondGeography]

31. You'd do better to say why she didn't deserve a C- than to smear Halperin

[BootinUp]

32. I have, in other threads

She kept her cool and her focus under a pretty withering attack. She did not let herself be framed by the attackers.

As I have also said, I am not anxious to watch a replay though.

If I was grading (and I have probably upgraded Obama after more thought):

Barak Obama B+

Clinton B

Biden B+

Edwards C

Dodd C+

Kucinich C+

[BeyondGeography]

34. She kept her cool until the end

and then she lost her cool. Throw that out, and I would have given her a B-. The other unfortuante bit for her is that it happened at the very end and that's what much of the media ran with.

Obama gets a B from me; good content, but the sleepy delivery and the stumbling over words needs to improve.

[laureloak]

12. Edwards is our man if we want to win. n/t

[oasis]

13. The corpo-media must do their bit in order to keep the "horserace" interesting. $$$$$.

[zulchzulu]

14. Halperin had given Clinton an A on August 30 debate

http://205.188.238.109/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1651787_1651786_1651780,00.html

In case anyone thinks he is "anti-Clinton", a "Hillary hater", a sexist swine who hates women, a "Freeper", a "Republican tool and/or operative", I doubt there were complaints about that review from the Clinton Camp.

[Pachamama]

20. I agree with their entire assessment except for about Kucinich...As usual, Kucinich is minimalized

by the media. Very sad, because everything he said, from Impeachment, to the real truth about Universal Healthcare, to the War on Iraq was spot on. He was completely ignored by Brian Williams and Tim Russert and was then mocked with the UFO question to try and make him look crazy.

Very sad and very wrong because Kucinich is perhaps the most intelligent and honest person up on that stage. I give Dennis atleast a A-. :applause:

And I give the media a D-

[zulchzulu]

22. I liked what Kucinich said...but like you said, he was alloted the role of court jester

It was apparent when he was questioned about the UFO thingie... I was in a room with about a dozen people and I could not figure out what the hell the question was. It was bizarre.

[Eurobabe]

21. I watched the debate this morning, and was impressed by Edwards

and Biden, the most. Edwards surprised me.

[cuke]

33. No way did Obama do better than Biden

I think Biden made out best. Edwards did really well, but it was Biden who gained the most, IMO. He stood out, and as a lower-tier candidate, he did himself more good than Edwards did

Obama did nothing for himself. He billed himself as ready to attack and then all he did was nip at her heels. He didn't lose any support last night, but I doubt he pick any up either

[Colobo]

41. Time is right. Edwards won and Obama came in second.

[info being]

36. Haha...Kucinich D+

I'll take their mainstream opinion with a grain of salt...especially how he "*tried* to go mainstream" about UFOs...as though he brought the issue up himself. They just *couldn't* give him a higher grade than Hillary. In fact, I wouldn't hold my breath for this to *ever* happen.

[Renew Deal]

37. I generally agree.

I think Richardson was an F. Biden had the least time to talk.

[laureloak]

38. Only one "A" in the pack? You go Edwards! n/t

[Jillian]

43. I like how they said Biden disappeared for a part of the debate - like that was his fault.

[Carrieyazel]

44. Hillary sucked. Agreed. But she started going lame at the CNN YouTube Debate

not last night. Last night was her lamest yet.

[superkia]

45. When any of our candidates cant answer questions directly...

and honestly and they get caught up in it, they deserve an F. I don't mean an F for the debate, I mean for the campaign because if we cant trust any of your answers, how can we consider you at all to be president to run our children's future? Clinton got caught up on a national stage and I don't think those who saw it will forget it because shes spinning it as ganging up on her? The truth hurts not because of who points it out but because you got caught.