Hilllary was a loser in tonight's debate

[fedupfisherman]

That is all.

[rufus dog]

1. I only saw the last 50 minutes

And the triangulation was over the top.

[Colobo]

2. Yes, and it was a beauty to watch.

[AtomicKitten]

3. It was brutal.

[Adelante]

4. She had two bad moments

On the first lady records and the driver's licenses for illegal immigrants. Otherwise, I thought she did well. In fact, I think they all did well tonight.

[JI7]

5. i would like to hear what others who aren't biased have to say

those who aren't behind Hillary or the other candidates.

anyways, even if she did bad, i'm sure Bill will be out there doing damage control.

hmm, just saw some msnbc poll which says Obama did best and Hillary 2nd best.

[Adelante]

7. I didn't see the total disaster everyone's talking about

It wasn't as perfectly smooth as other debates, that's true, and she had those couple of real rocky times, but she's under a much, much, much harsher microscope here tonight than any of the other candidates.

[Ethelk2044]

11. she should have been under this microscope all along the MSM have been giving her a free pass.

However, they knew if they stated she won tonight, It would have been very Obvious because she was lacking. Like Chuck Todd said " She was beginning to crack"

[JDPriestly]

26. The microscope will be even harsher when she debates a Republican.

Her triangulation and teacher's pet attitude will not work against even the worst of the Republican candidates. Edwards won this debate and showed that of the candidates he is the best equipped to represent us Democrats against the Republicans. Edwards has the sharpest intellect and the best debating and speaking skills. In addition, he has thought through every issue, knows all the facts and is ready to change America. Hillary tries to co-opt Edwards' ideas, but she does not own them. Only Edwards owns them.

[KaptBunnyPants]

15. Good luck finding someone who isn't biased.

By this point you either like Hillary or you don't.

[FatDave]

36. And that is exactly the problem

From even before she officially entered the race, people's minds were made up about her. And for just as long, people have used the same word to describe her: "polarizing". But the problem is that she's polarizing within the democratic party, not the nation at large. Republicans are all very much in agreement, and they loathe her. Nothing is going to help republican turnout like a Hillary Clinton candidacy, and nothing is going to hurt democratic turnout like a Hillary Clinton candidacy. Personally, I think she would be a fine president. She's not my first choice, but I think she would do a good job. But now is not the time to take such risks. There is nothing less at stake this election cycle than the future of our country. To use a poker metaphor, we're going all in. And I think before we do that we should have a better hand than Hillary Clinton.

[Exultant Democracy]

21. The MSNBC poll is rather intersting. (not scientific, but interesting)

For positives Hillary trailed Obama just by a few points, but on the negatives she more then doubles the rest of the pack.

[Sparkly]

6. I agree the first one was odd.

I didn't have a problem with the driver's licenses answer. It seemed clear to me.

I think there were a couple of times when others looked weak from throwing darts at her and having her refute them. And I thought Richardson seemed weak in general. No doubt smart and experienced, but just doesn't do well in debates.

Biden was sharp. I liked him talking specifically about Giuliani, and Obama talking specifically about Romney. :thumbsup:

[Adelante]

8. I understood what she was saying

I thought she over talked it and didn't present a straight forwardness.

I actually found the attack strategy a little uncomfortable when it seemed too deliberate. I mean, she's there not attacking anybody and it looked kind of bad. Richardson took a bit of the air out of it. I preferred when it was smooth and logical like when Obama followed up on the first lady records and transparency.

[Cameron27]

12. Sparkly and I agree again lol,

and also with you. I understood what she said, and I thought the attack was a little too overdone, especially when Russert was targeting her too. I don't think any of the others would have done any better in that position. Biden was the best IMO. He just nails these debates.

[Adelante]

18. Biden was great and Kucinich, too

Really, I liked them all tonight. It was a good debate.

[hedgehog]

13. I think the others had to attack her to make it absolutely clear

what the differences among the candidates are. In all the other debates, she kept answering questions by saying something along the lines of I'm sure we all agree that.. or Everybody up here agrees that... She tried it a couple times tonight and got called on it.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

9. Yeah, the drivers liscense thing was clear to me as well. (But she was flustered by it)

[hedgehog]

10. It seemed to me that she had a glower on her face when others were talking

and switched to big smiles when it was her turn.

[earthlover]

14. She lost the GENERAL ELECTION tonight with the drivers license thing

First, she managed to do an incredible feat: not only did she flip flop on the issue, she also gave a reply that would give the Reps ammunition! A political death-wish at work here.

Obama needs to look AT the camera, he always is looking sideways. Edwards resonated. Biden was strong. Richardson weak. Kucinich was the most articulate, but that means he has to be ignored.

It was sorta depressing. Hillary has looked good to me in other debates. She sucked tonite. She got ruffled and that ain't good@!

[Chomskyite]

28. I thought Chris Matthews was full of it

. . . when he said the driver's license issue in New York could be THE issue of the 2008 presidential election. Although it would be great if somehow things in Iraq got better and we started pulling troops out, I think realism suggests Iraq will be the issue throughout 08.

[Godhumor]

29. I don't think her statement was hard to understand

She essentially said, "We need to do something about undocumented immigrants, Spitzer is moving in a direction to do something about it, which I admire, but I disagree with the decision he made." It will be interesting to see how the soundbite gets cut in the upcoming months, but regardless of the attack machine, I seriously doubt she lost anything with the comment.

[CyberPieHole]

16. Do you have a link for that?

She seemed to come in second after Obama in the MSNBC poll

HERE---->http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21528788/


I thought that Biden came out well.

[Renew Deal]

19. It's opinion

No link required.

[Exultant Democracy]

23. The negitives on that poll tell the story, she came in last not second.

edit: to add that an online MSNBC poll is easy to game.

[JDPriestly]

27. Is the vote on pop-ups. I get the website but I don't see the vote or the results.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

17. I thought it was a bad performance, but dazzling in its weird way

I have NEVER seen a politician confronted with such unrelieved attacks from every direction. The moderators had it set up as a bloodbath. (The first hour of questions was, "Mister candidate, just how bad does Hillary suck?")

So I was impressed with her intellect in bearing up and giving organized paragraph form answers in an impossible position. And the fall-back on a blizzard of policies is like watching someone recite the phone book.

But she talked too fast, and said too much. Like she knew all she had to fall back on was intellect, and she was going to counter with brute force recitation of a million arguments.

Her personality problems really showed... her answers sounded more pressured and evasive than they even were (and they were plenty evasive)

[JDPriestly]

30. If Hillary had been smart, she would have humbly joked in the face

of the questions. But, since she isn't that smart and what's more has no sense of humor, she simply lost.

This was a fair debate, and Hillary lost, not because she was attacked but because her weaknesses prevented her from responding appropriately. Her arrogance, her excessive pride, her anger, her lack of a sense of humor caused her to fail. I'm glad that the flaws in her character and personality came to light.

Hillary lacks the ability to play. She cannot laugh at herself. If we have learned one thing from the Bush presidency, it is that we need a president who can play without being sadistic. We need a president who is human and humble and who can laugh at him or herself. We need a president who is honest and human. A person who cannot laugh ant him- or herself cannot be honest. He or she is brittle and will break under pressure. That is what will happen to Hillary. She should be in therapy not in a race for president of the United States.

[BenDavid]

20. HRC did not lose and since Obama nor Edwards

won then HRC held her own, but this debate seemed to be a setup to attack Hillary. Tonight was such a disappointment. MSNBC baited Barack and Edwards to attack HRC, and this left the door open for the moderators to go negative as well, and most of the questions asked were negative towards her. More focus was placed on her than on the current administration, than issues affecting our children, and more than this ugly war.
I fear that the attacks on her are going to hurt the Democratic Party in the long run. This was the wrong type of debate for the Democrats, and MSNBC helped to create this ugly discourse. Any of the Democratic candidates would be better than the Republicans. We can't win by destroying our best candidates. HRC did a great job holding up under the attack. I am very proud of her, and I support her.

But I do respect Govenor Richardson more when he said something to the effect that there were some on this stage doing their Holier then thou stance......and Edwards with all his attacks had one turned on him by Dennis about the Hedge Funds....as did Obama trying to set up HRC on the drivers license bill in New York state, and he coming down on both sides of the argument.....

Yep! Still give HRC the nod in this cluster f*** tonight and if you all wanna go the way of Kerry and Gore our last two presidents,LMAO then let Obama or Edwards win the nomination.....Did you happen to see how this was a set up on the evening NBC news when they said 50% would vote against her and then tonight repeated again, but NBC went against their own damn polling concerning HRC's favorable and unfavorable ratings.....51 favor 39 unfavorable and defeats all repubs.....Now if you think this was not a hit job then you still believe Dennis has a chance.....

I do thank you
Ben David

[BeyondGeography]

24. Right; it's everyone's fault but hers

They forced her to say no specifics on social security until she gets the results of a bipartisan commission. Lured her into a defense of her husband's decision to deter a full release of her records as a First Lady until 2012. Coaxed a nuanced-to-death response on the drivers license for immigrants question.

Poor Hillary, victimized yet again.

[earthlover]

32. So we should pity her? I thought she was the inevitable insurmountable front runner?

Cracks in armor tonite.

[Basileus Basileon]

22. Agreed. Her stock dropped a few points in my book. nt

[alittlelark]

25. I did not see a presidential contener... I saw a pretender

I think many in this country saw it as well, It was actually kinda EMBARRASSING.

I want a woman to be POTUS - but not her, not now,not w/ our country going down in flames.



I PRAY (in an atheistic way) for GORE.


Please
Please
Please
please

[Perry Logan]

31. She was godlike. She mopped the floor with those other losers.

[FlaxieB]

33. Now does everyone understand why the Repubs want her to win? She is WEAK!

The Repubs want her because they know her and they can beat her. Last night she proved that she cannot handle the tough questions, cannot make solid decisions, doesn't have a handle on the major issues and overall incompetence. The Repubs understand that her limited abilities, along with the Bill Clinton legacy will energize their base to vote. The Repubs may not like their choice for Prez, but they'll be damned if they will allow the Clinton's back. Bottom line: A Repub after GWB in the WH if Hillary is the Dem candidate.

Please Dems, let's not allow this mistake to happen.

[New Earth]

35. Haha Edwards even said that

...that the Republicans WANT her to win :rofl:

[Froward69]

34. Acording to msnbc

Biden Won!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/

[Hepburn]

37. It's not only tonight's debate in which she is a big loser....

...we are looking at the same in November 2008.

Can we all say..., "Prezidente Ghouliani?"

:puke: