Interesting email I just received from longtime Dem activist:

[proud2BlibKansan]

After months and months of consideration, I find myself in a rather odd place. Simply stated, I can no longer support the Democratic party. At this point I cannot rally to support any party or candidate, just because they are slightly better than the opposition and on our side. The whole concept of this competitive and combative political party system is, in my mind counter-productive to the needs of this country and it's people. Thus, I have to step away from that phase of my life. I recognize this is the "reality" of politics, but I guess that doesn't have to preclude working in a different direction. I don't exactly know where that takes me, but I guess we will see. Maybe if we can just shave off some of the rough edges it might help.

I intend to continue my participation in (this group) and will continue to function as a member of the steering committee until my term is up. I will no longer participate in the precinct leadership program nor will I actively help in electing Democratic candidates, just because they are Democrats.

Just thought I should let you all know of my decision before you figured it out for yourself.

Take Care
xxxx

PS Do not send healers, shrinks or exorcists. And no group intervention please!

This man has been a precinct leader for literally decades and has been active in the local party for a long long time. His attitude is very typical of what we are seeing here in the middle of the country. And as long as we have Dems in DC who cave in to the republicans and refuse to stand up to the worst president ever, then I believe my friend won't be the only one to drop away from supporting the party.

I was hoping this would help some of you who don't get it understand how so many of us feel.

[unpossibles]

1. sigh. While I can almost understand the sentiment

I fail to see how giving up and letting the Republicans do what they want is a better alternative.

[rateyes]

2. We have the majority, and the Republicans are doing what

they want, anyway.

[peace13]

7. Because the Dems allow them to.

Elected Dems should take the class: Ball Growing 101 and maybe we could make some advances in this sorry state called America.

[rateyes]

10. I'd settle for them growing a spine. nt

[surfermaw]

74. Put enough in both houses, and see the country change in minutes

a few can do nothing, load both houses with democrats and we mayb can geet back to where we were 8 years ago, I am in my 80's and can remember all that republican rubish, and the above sounds like republican rubish.

[peace13]

80. What is rubbish is Dem 'leaders' forcing Dems that speak out

to apologize. I don't care so much that nothing gets done. The fact that we continue to play by a different set of rules is disgusting. And by the way, we can control what bills get to the floor so let's start there. Unless something changes I doubt that a full house of Dems would do anything differently than they are now. Not easy for me to say. Peace, Kim

[unpossibles]

16. we have an extremely slim majority

and an executive branch which doesn't care.

Yes, there are a few who need to be replaced, but to bash the entire party over a handful of votes is silly and counter-productive.

Senate is 49 to 49 with two "independents" who align with us (well, one anyway).

House is a larger majority but is not exactly large enough to be able to override anything.

[rateyes]

31. Attitude reflects leadership....

thus the reason for my bad attitude toward our party right now.

[unpossibles]

38. I know

I am not trying to pick a fight (sort of), and if it helps, the leaders have pissed me off many times too, from pork to corporate lobbyist crap to just not standing up to them, but I fail to see how giving up will change that either.

[rateyes]

54. The "change" has to come from within, first.

From within the party. And, that means that progressives need to use their votes and their voices to pressure the hell out of the Democratic leadership. I'm not going to "rubber stamp" this Speaker of the House.

[CreekDog]

90. Well that's pretty easy to say

Some of you are all Steinbrenners, just fire people until everything gets better.

[peace13]

3. sigh, our elected Dems do whatever they want

with no regard for the fact that they are our representatives. I see no difference in the two scenarios.

[unpossibles]

17. if you honestly don't see the difference

I fail to see (a) why you are here, and (b) why you are not running for office yourself.

I am an independent, and while the Dems sometimes piss me off, I see a HUGE difference.

[peace13]

85. I am so tired of hearing this kind of retort.

I have a different opinion than you have. Get used to it. If every free thinker left DU because someone didn't like their ideas this place would be empty! How do you know that I am not running for office and what do you know about me and how I contribute to this country? I am happy for your crystal clear vision. Good luck with it. Stop judging others!

[CreekDog]

92. it's the "slightly" different than the Republican line that isn't just an opinion

It's just plain wrong. It's a duplicitous and insidious lie that is being spread. The parties are different. If there were 100% in both houses of congress, the troops would be coming home on some timetable, schip would be universal health care of some sort, the lgbt leglislation would be passed fully intact and the list goes on.

To hear that there is just a *slight* difference, now from two people quoted in this thread is maddening because it is so untrue.

What you don't like is the lack of progress...the lack of progress means that things aren't much different than before, but small majorities in congress opposed by the president --well that's what you get --status quo. It takes power, power beyond what we have and power beyond what Bush has to change the status quo. This is stalemate, which means the war will continue, everything else that could be done for the good will be an uphill battle with no guarantee of success at the end.

You don't like the lack of progress on the huge issues of the day --well, join the club. You know what, Reid and Pelosi don't like it either and they KNOW their jobs are on the line if they don't pull off the impossible. But just because the stakes are high doesn't make stuff more possible.

As someone familiar with Republican circles, don't forget that this kind of backbiting has been going on that side since 1994 when they were bemoaning all the stuff that should have happened --but they didn't have the votes and calling for people's heads and generally being all high and mighty.

To do what some of what you folks want doesn't happen with majority+1. That is the Bush/Rove approach, to do what could be done with majority+1 and look how durable that setup was...it accomplished stuff for their side, but the backlash means that if the other side keeps it together (some of you aren't) all that stuff could be undone with a new president and bigger majorities.

But some of you are throwing in the towel now. You want your Superbowl ring in the middle of the championship game. It don't work that way.

[cuke]

4. Another "Dems should stand up and fight" retiring and laying down.

[BootinUp]

11. Its just an admission

that they are not equipped for politics. Emotions get too hot, unable to handle defeat and plan successful strategy that usually means scaling back what you want for what you can get. Thats reality.

[dflprincess]

12. Those of us who have been involved for a long time are burning out

I understand exactly where this guy is coming from. It's very hard to continue to fight when the people we elected, believing they would at least try to do something about Bushco, turn out ot be Vichy Democrats who continue to let the Republicans run the show.

[rateyes]

13. Oh, you are sadly mistaken.

These disaffected folk (me included) aren't retiring, and neither are we laying down. We're fighting...we just won't be fighting beside those who capitulate to the Neocon agenda. We will be fighting against those who take us for granted.

Don't underestimate the deepness of the anger we feel.

[BootinUp]

14. Where's Nader when you need him?

/sarcasm

[cuke]

26. So you're going to fight against the Dems?

IMO, a stupid way to beat the repukes

[rateyes]

30. My agenda is not about "beating the repukes,"

it's about reclaiming our democracy for "we the people." And, even if it was about "beating the repukes"---that's not accomplished by JOINING the Repukes in their agenda.

[cuke]

37. You think that can be done without beating the repukes?

[rateyes]

44. I think it is done by beating

the corporatists, the war whores, and the enablers.....be they Repuke or Democratic or Independent. I'm not voting for Republican-lite. Period.

[cuke]

52. You think that can be done without beating the repukes?

Try not dodging this question next time

[rateyes]

57. I didn't dodge the question....I'm saying that there are Repukes

masquerading as Democrats. And, I won't vote for a Repuke, regardless of their party affiliation. Zell Miller is, technically, a Democrat. But, he's a repuke. Jim Marshall is, technically, a Democrat. But, he's a repuke. Joe Lieberman was once a Democrat, who is now, technically, an Independent who caucuses with the Democrats. But, he's a repuke.

I won't support people like that. Period.

I won't support someone who says, "no more blank checks" and then writes them, over and over again. I won't support someone who says, "the Democrats will hold the Bush administration accountable," but then takes impeachment off the table. I won't support someone who votes to give the idiot-in-chief authority to conduct warrantless wiretaps on American citizens. I won't support someone who says they will hold the administration accountable, but then refuses to schedule a vote on contempt of Congress hearings for those who have thumbed their noses at the Congress.

I will not eat green eggs and ham. I do not like them, Sam I am. (And, I have tried them, and I still don't like them.)

[cuke]

64. You think that can be done without beating the repukes?

Telling me who you won't vote for doesn't answer the question I asked.

You mentioned some things you'd like to see done, like ending the war, for example. Do you think any of those things can be achieved if the repukes win the presidential election? Can those things be done if the repukes regain a majority in Congress?

[rateyes]

69. I think it can be done by beating ALL the Repukes...

not just the ones in the Republican party. I DON'T think it can be done by electing a larger Democratic majority, if the new Democrats arriving in office keep voting the way the majority is voting, and the leadership is leading at the present time.

Personally, I liked the party better when we were still and OPPOSITION party. We aren't that party, now. We are the "go along to get along" party.

[cuke]

73. Each and every single one?

You keep talking about how it can't be done, and what you're going to do, none of which answers the question.

It seems you don't have a clues as to how to clean up the mess other than criticize Dems for not doing it for you

[rateyes]

82. You are the one without a clue, and don't seem to be

able to comprehend an answer when you get one. So, you might as well stop asking. I already told you what I am doing. I'm working to defeat my DINO Representative and replace him with a real Democrat. Should I fail in that effort, and my DINO Representative loses, it matters not to me...he votes with the Republicans, anyway. He was one of two so-called Dems who voted against S-CHIP. He's voted for every war funding bill EXCEPT the one with the timeline for withdrawal.

I am working to defeat ALL the DINOS in the primaries. For the Democratic Party to change the country for the better, it has to first of all change itself for the better...and, this leadership is not doing that, and won't do that.

[cuke]

84. It "matters not" to you?

So all this talk about how much you care about the war and the Constitution was just BS?

[rateyes]

87. Just go away. You know better than that...

Tell me, WHAT THE HELL has our leadership done to protect the Constitution? Allow war funding bills without timelines to come to the floor? Refuse to hold Rove and Miers in Contempt of Congress and get their testimony on record? Pass a FISA bill that gives Bush the authority to wiretap American citizens without warrants? Pass a renewal of the Patriot Act? Take impeachment of war criminals off the table?

WHAT? What have they done to protect the Constitution? WHAT? Elected more Democrats who will cave in to the repukes?

Written nasty letters, and issuing subpoenas, and then not backing those subpoenas up when the pResident claims executive privilege...not even bothering to take it to court?

WHAT?

Anybody who believes that the current Democratic leadership is "caring about the Constitution" and is serious about getting us out of this illegal war, is falling for a bunch of BS.

[cuke]

93. What the HELL have YOU done?

You make fun of writing letters, but I havent seen you doing much more than that.

And when I pointed out that your efforts were futile, your response was "I care not". Anybody who believes that you are "caring about the Constitution" and is serious about getting us out of this illegal war, is falling for a bunch of BS.

[rateyes]

100. When did I make fun of writing letters?

I write letters myself. You must be confusing me with someone else. Sheesh.

[cuke]

102. In your post. Don't you remember saying

"WHAT? What have they done to protect the Constitution? WHAT? Elected more Democrats who will cave in to the repukes?

Written nasty letters, and issuing subpoenas, and then not backing those subpoenas up when the pResident claims executive privilege...not even bothering to take it to court?"

You dismiss the letters they wrote, so I asked if YOU had done anything more than written letters?

I'm still waiting for an answer

[rateyes]

105. I wasn't making fun of YOU writing letters...

I was saying that it seems that "letters" are the only things that the leadership does. They never back up what they say in the letters, though.

I was talking about the "tough talk" of the leadership, only to see them shrink like violets.

[cuke]

106. I didn't say you were making fun of ME writing letters

You made fun of Dems in Congress for writing letters, so I asked you what YOU have done.

"I was talking about the "tough talk" of the leadership, only to see them shrink like violets."

And I was talking about YOUR "tough talk" and if you ever put it into action, or if you only demand that OTHER PEOPLE do more than write letters

[rateyes]

109. I demand that people do what they have the power to do.

And, I demand that they do what they were elected to do. I work on campaigns. I vote. I protest. I have family members at war. I write my worthless DINO Congressman and Repuke Senators. I do what I have the power to do.

I demand the same from our Democratic Leadership. They have the power. They even have the wisdom. What they don't have is the COURAGE!

The leadership has more power than to say in a letter, "If you don't stop, I'm going to have to yell louder for you to stop!"

[unpossibles]

32. the Republicans best chance lies in us giving up

that's why they "encourage" us to not vote. Not hard to steal an election if no one votes.

Sometimes I think we are perfectly respresented by selfish and lazy people who are afraid of a fight, and to makes me sad to think we deserve it.

[cuke]

42. So then give up

if you can't continue. I will not repeat repuke lies.

[unpossibles]

45. I assume you meant to respond to someone else

I am not giving up, and in fact am busy chastising the others who are.

thanks for the help! :) rock on!

[cuke]

49. Yes,

I confused you with another poster. My apologies

[unpossibles]

59. none needed, but thanks

it's gets confusing in here sometimes, and occasionally the site itself can't keep up with the traffic and errors happen.

[calimary]

98. Understood, TOTALLY!

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mary_lyo_071023_things_we_saved_in_t.htm

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. But we at the grassroots level aren't the ones who gave up

Our elected officials gave up a long time ago.

[unpossibles]

22. the do something about it

make it known to them you won't take it, or support those who don't lay down (because frankly not all are), or run for office.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. We have tried

Our phone calls are not being answered and messages are not being returned. We also have sent several emails asking for a sit down with this one particular elected official. Her staff is ignoring our request. We emailed the official directly and that request has also been ignored.

When they are running for office, they want our time, our phone and canvassing skills and our money. But once they are elected, we are no longer important. It's beyond frustrating.

[unpossibles]

29. then go to their office and make yourself heard

bring thousands of people with you - I'm sure you can find them as this is a popular statement. Call the companies which support them, tell them you will no longer buy their products, then send them (the companies and the politicians) letters stating the same. Escalate it if you honestly feel there are no other solutions.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. We are going to do that

Go for a personal visit.

But please remember that the anti-war community has had how many marches in DC - in just the last month - and the war rages on. Activists held up traffic on Monday! And did the media even cover it? Did Congress even notice? And yes, there were thousands there.

In January, 700,000 of us marched to the capital. Did that change anything?

There are going to be regional marches all over the country on Saturday. I am going to Chicago. So watch for media coverage.

I am all in favor of taking to the streets. I have done it many times and will do it again and again. But it is not always effective. Sadly.

[unpossibles]

43. sadly, inded. I agree with you there

which is why we need to shout louder, and also why we need to threaten to hit them in their pocketbooks, and follow through. Money seems to be what the media and their lapdogs are all about. Simply boycotting is not as effective without a good PR campaign to let them know you're boycotting (and marching). Seriously.

Good luck - again, I am not trying to pick on you (or anyone else here). I too want some drastic change, and frankly I think we outnumber the people afraid of change by a lot, and we need to remind the "leaders" of that again and again.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. I agree with you

and I don't feel picked on in the least.

These are very frustrating days for party activists on the left. Frustrating indeed.

[cuke]

55. Anti-war marches are about as effective as anti-war picnics

When people start making real sacrifices, by engaging in real civl disobedience, then the politicians will take notice. Disrupting the social order is bad for business

[unpossibles]

62. I'm pretty sure I did not say that marching alone helps

I figure if the bible thumpers can get people to notice them through organized boycotts (WITH good messaging to those they are boycotting, since they need to know), then that is one method which can get attention. Civil disobedience can too, but it can also not work and backfire. I don't recall the WTO protests being overly successful. Corporatists will write off what they see as anarchists - they won't write off a million people threatening their bottom line.

[cuke]

65. No, you did not say that

that's why I didn't say you said that. I was merely adding my opinion on the matter

And yes, threatening the bottom line is what it's about.

[truedelphi]

56. I think that the protests would be/will be effective when those

OIn charge of the amrches circle the streets where the media outlets are lcoated
ANd have it happen on a weekday.

AMrching around in a sunny wide boulevard canmake you feel good, and get your juices going, and help avoid the depression taht isolation brings, but until the media is FORCED to take notice, they just won't.

And besides it is the corporations that are their life blood in the form of ads in the paper.

[cuke]

33. Letters and emails!! Like wow!

Maybe those dems think that people who are only willing to sacrifice so little have no place telling them that they should risk their jobs.

"People are dying" I hear from those who think the Dems should take immediate action, but "people are dying" is not enough reason for THEM to do anything more than write letters and emails.

In the 70's, it took massive civil disobedience to end the war. People burned their draft cards, burned ROTC centers, took over colleges, etc. They did so at great personal risk. Nowadays, people write letters and wonder when they will be incarcerated at Gitmo

[rateyes]

35. THAT is the unvarnished truth! nt

[Fovea]

21. because when the pain and anger start injuring you

and the people you count on to help do little or nothing.
Then the only rational choice is to decathect, or go Charlie Whitman.

[unpossibles]

27. or support Kucinich

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure the primary is not over yet. Sure, he barely stands a chance in our coporatist world, but hey - you're at least voting for the issues then.

[soulcore]

66. Because there is no difference in repugs and dems at this point

On a one-to-basis there are good eggs on both sides, but for the most part the system is designed to make you either the controlling party, or the opposition party, only they both serve the same master.

Middle America is well aware of this fact, that's why most don't participate in politics.

For the rest of us with a conscience to do good faced with a false choice, well .. there aren't any easy answers.

[UrbScotty]

107. Agreed 100%. (nt)

[CT_Progressive]

5. There is a simple reply you should send, as follows:

"Just as you don't abandon your child if they are misbehaving, you don't abandon your party when they are misbehaving. You take action to correct the child's behavior, just as you take action to correct the party's behavior. Turning your back on the problem solves nothing, in either case."

[Clark2008]

9. Except I don't love my "party" like I love my child.

That's not a great analogy. I'll invest time in my child and see the results. If I invest time in the party and don't see results right away, I'll abandon it. I simply don't love it as much as those two munchkins pictured below.

[Frustratedlady]

46. What beautiful children.

You must be proud. Hold them close.

[Dr.Phool]

19. If you're being abused continually by your parent,

You get the fuck out of there.

You should come down to Florida and see how they act. Party membership, and most DEC's have become social clubs. They actively undermine progressive campaigns. They vote with the repukes to move up the primary, and then lie about it when they get sanctioned. At our county "Unity Dinner" fundraiser, They refused admission to the districts congressional nominee, because he had the nerve to question some of the State Chairs dirty dealings and lies.

As they say, the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.

As the OP said, the person who sent out the e-mail was an activist and precinct leader for DECADES.

[CT_Progressive]

75. "They" ?

You should come down to Florida and see how they act.

They?

Don't you mean "we" ?

That is the ENTIRE point of my post. If there are Democrats that are DINOs, or just flat-out Conservatives, then KICK THEIR ASS OUT OF OUR PARTY. FIX the Party. That is my POINT. If YOU LEAVE, then the DINOs are all that remains. If you force THEM OUT, then the Party gets "better".

Why are people so afraid of a little hard work? Just oust the bad Dems from our Party! Its not that hard! Just work to support good Dems to replace them! Work hard to recruit! Work hard to get good Dems elected. Work hard to push for Primaries to get the bad Dems out!

Sheesh!

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. I have an obligation to my child

I don't feel the same sense of obligation to my party.

[BridgeTheGap]

6. I understand exactly how you feel, having felt it myself - what are the options?

I still contend that ONLY a strong grassroots movement will change the direction of this country. That grassroots movement can change the Democratic party or it can veer in the direction of a third party. I certainly don't see not participating as an option. Things will only get worse.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. I favor strengthening the grassroots

Forget the blue dogs and the centrists and the DLCers. Build up our group and become a force to be reckoned with.

[unpossibles]

34. great answer

I agree with you 100% here.

Sadly, I think everyone - the voters and the reps - forgets that WE are the power as stated by the Founders.

[rateyes]

8. There are people leaving in droves....

The Democratic Party better get busy converting Independents and Republicans. The base is ticked off, and many are leaving the party. Come November, I, for the first time, if Jim Marshall is the nominee, will NOT be voting for a Democrat for my Representative. The leadership better wake up to the truth that they cannot keep taking the Democratic base for granted. NOT voting Democratic, and not giving them money seems to be the only thing that the leadership hears. And, they aren't hearing that...because, the base is being taken for granted.

I won't play that game any longer. The Democratic Party can no longer count on my unwavering support like it has for the past 30 years. I'm fed up with the lack of courage of our leaders to hold the Bush administration accountable. We are no longer a nation of laws, because those elected (or crowned, as the case may be) are no longer under the law, but above it.

[unpossibles]

18. I am an Independent who supports the Dems

and yes, I wish they were more progressive - far more, actually - but I don't agree they're the same. Change takes time and takes us doing everything we can.

If you're too tired to keep up the fight, don't let the door hit ya where evolution split ya. Or you can stay here trying to sow dissent and discouragement. Yeah, that works well. I've been busting my ass trying to get more people to vote for many years and it gets frustrating to see people trying to prevent people from voting - or at least that's how I read this.

Go ahead and vote for whomever you want, but be prepared for the consequences - or run yourself.

[cuke]

41. Bullshite

Membership in the DNC is going up, not down. Why did you feel the need to invent a fictional statistic?

[rateyes]

51. Keep lulling yourself to sleep....

when you awaken, you will find that there are people who have been Democrats for decades who have left...I'm seeing it happen all over. Numbers don't lie, but liars use numbers.

[cuke]

53. Dem enrollment is increasing

and the Democrats approval ratings get higher and higher. That must really tick you off

[rateyes]

60. Congress' approval rating is around 11%....

and it's controlled by the Democrats. Ever ask yourself why that is? BTW, I'm in the 89% who don't approve of this Congress. And, being at 11%, there has to be a helluva lot of us Democrats who are in that group, too.

[cuke]

68. Congress != Dems

Congress, as a whole, has almost always had a low rating (but thanks for repeating a bs rightwing talking point) while individual members have high ratings from their constituents

[rateyes]

72. Cuke, there's nothing right wing about me...

unlike our present Democratic leadership. So, you can take that little insult and stick it. My DINO Congressman has a ZERO approval rating from me. Z.E.R.O. And, he will have some opposition in the primary, and I will do my dead level best to see him bite the dust. He votes with the Republicans. And, if that means that a Republican is elected in his place...it's his own damned fault. As for me, having a Republican and having Jim Marshall as a representative, is the same thing.

[cuke]

79. Didn't say YOU were right wing. Your argument was

There isn't been a right wing pundit that hasnt talked about Congress' low ratings without pinning it on the Dems. You just did the same exact thing. I'm sure you're not a right-winger, but I am just as sure that you just repeated a right-wing argument. It's not an insult; It's a fact

Another fact - Your "DINO Congressman" has a higher approval rating than you do,

Another fact - even you admit that your course of action gets us nowhere closer to your own stated goals.

By your own admission, you are engaging in a futile mission that has no chance of achieving the goals that you say you seek.

[wyldwolf]

58. Dem party affiliation is on the rise.

[ShortnFiery]

50. Concise and well put.

I wish that I could convey thoughts and perspectives as clear and succinct as you have above. Kudos! :thumbsup: :hi:

[rateyes]

61. You do fine conveying your thoughts and perspectives...

as a writer, I have had a quarter of a century of practice. Thanks.

[EstimatedProphet]

86. So go ahead and vote Repub! That'll learn em!

[wyldwolf]

15. I get letters like that every election season (well, since '96)

People burned out, disappointed in the candidate chosen, blah blah blah. And every two years it's the same thing. Is there a "I'm quitting the Dem party" letter generator somewhere?

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. I think itis much worse now than it has ever been in the past.

[wyldwolf]

40. that's what someone says every year.

[BootinUp]

77. lol, I believe it. nt

[Frustratedlady]

36. I'm in limbo, but must agree with what has been said above.

Politics has always been about competition...which party can lead better than the other. However, these last seven years has seen decision after decision based on how they will look to their constituents...instances of backing down one after another, based on how they will look to their constituents...rhetoric based solely on politics rather than discussion for fear their constituents won't vote for them. It has come to the point where neither party is running the country. Who is going to win the 2008 election has become the dominant issue over our safety, economy, democracy, etc.

When these people can concentrate on what is best for the country, how to best follow the Constitution, begin to end these conflicts in the Middle East or get us out of there, THEN, and only then, will we be back to being the United States of America. Until then, we will be in another Civil War, neighbor against neighbor, because we are just so angry on one side and defensive or lethargic on the other.

Both parties had best get back to doing what is best for the country...what is best for the party will follow. They are either going to be losing us like flies or we are going to take to the streets in anger and despair.

I think we should put a limit on the amount of time a candidate can campaign. September 1st to November's election day sounds good to me.

[Totally Committed]

48. Yup, that pretty much covers it.

I have felt EXACTLY like that for awhile now.

I feel his pain.

TC

[Hydra]

63. You know how fiat currency economies(paper money with no backing) rely on

"Consumer Confidence"? Well our reps depend on "voter confidence."

Voter confidence is down the toilet, and swirling deeper into the sewers all the time.

[rateyes]

88. And, the septic tanks are backing up! nt

[Hydra]

91. True that! n/t

------------
on edit:

Lots of ignored blocks showing up now...I swear that does wonders for my blood pressure. Funny though...I only have 4 people on ignore currently :evilgrin:

[cali]

67. ....

:rofl:

:rofl:


:rofl:

[Totally Committed]

70. Why would you laugh at something like that?

I don't get it.

TC

[cali]

78. because I think it's amusing

as hell watching all these sanctimonious purtiy brigade members, plead for understanding- trying to convince others just how right there are to hold their smug little positions.

[Totally Committed]

94. That's probably the most out-and-out bitchy thing I've seen posted here in a while.

One minute you're in a thread about poverty posting stuff I can agree with like you're a compassionate human being and the next minute, you're posting something like this... dripping with derision and contempt. WHich is the real you?

You are giving me whiplash.

TC

[cali]

96. I know. you prefer to be bitchy behind someone's back

one minute you're gleefully posting about how you posted flamebait in GDP and how you can't wait to see "Clintonista" heads exploding, and the next you're posting threads about poverty.

I would have whiplash, but I've got a pretty good idea of what you REALLY think.

At least I'm not a hypocrite.

[rateyes]

83. Because, if you disagree with cali's position, then you are

automatically considered to be "smug." She can't see her own "smugness" for her accusations of it in others.

[cali]

95. nope

there are plenty of positions that I don't agree with that I have respect for.

[surfermaw]

71. Sounds like a bunch of crap to me,

follow this man and you will elect another republican in 2008, now matter what would come out of the woodwork, they would be better than a republican for 8 more years!

[PATRICK]

76. Long time involved activist

and I still disagree with him on the so-called competitive and combative tango he seems to find counter productive. Do they compete for the people or dollars? Hype or issues? Issues or insincere power-mongering. This confusion in the older generation has been long bred and is most disheartening to see in old time labor leaders and activists. They fail to identify the common poison and the one party responsible for it, even though the Dems have allowed themselves to be sucked in, apparently like their ground activists, into the notion this is how the "game" is played. The game should not be this and the cures are changing the party from within, supplanting with a new party, seeking a coalition candidate above the fray. The most naive reaction of any is to expect someone to emerge above the fray as a reconciliation candidate. The odds of getting an honest won are about as high as getting one that won't be ground up and dismissed by the very same people who want one.

The GOP wants burnouts. To sit it out. It is tough enough not get voters trained in soft living and go along get along American life styles not to wilt before fascist onslaughts, doing the weak Dem's job for them by discouraging themselves. All tar clings to the Dem's chances and enhances the goon's.

Well, there is no Mr. Nice Guy, weaker than the weakest Dem "competitor" who will lead the meek to a happy ending. For the same reason they cannot hear hardier alternatives such as progressive leaders challenging the whole system "competitively" and showing the people how the whole charade has them confused and jumping out of lifeboats when the ship hasn't even sunk. they accept the media mantras, the liberal, far left labels, the notion that disagreement itself is un-American or something and that the GOP is simply the unaccountable party by some divine right of apathy.

It is disheartening for a pro not to understand, not to want or pursue effective change and see the only decision is to help the Republicans no-chancers get elected.

Maybe we could argue around that and he would end up MORE depressed but better educated. I would propose a crazier idea. Organize and work for candidates with a stated understanding given to aforesaid candidate, your chosen one or not, of WHY you are and how you will organize against them in the next cycle. Deliver your political power with a non monetary price tag. Demonstrate your value as an ally and adversary and get as many others as possible to join together on this. Clout equals voluntarism, money and media presence locally. The first thing is full and real campaign finance reform so they will be disarmed of alternatives of answering to the people and the volunteers. The next thing is getting into candidate selection and primary battles. Nothing guarantees a democracy except the people, not any sort of chosen or self-entitled leader. If the other side cheats and instigates crap the Dem must fight back somehow whether the unresisting Lamb effect sometimes wins out fortuitously or not. People who do get active are a 'silent majority" for any desirous dictator NOT a future bloc for Mr. Wonderful to scoop up with platitudes and nostalgia.

Old timers are used to a universe of semi-accommodation and playing one party off against another to achieve public interests or the best accommodations(without seeing how corporations have been hampering these interests deliberately). Nothing is worse than a long relative prosperity enjoyed by these veterans in creating the desire for passivity and zero change. In actual fact the compromise with the intolerable evils was made long ago and the bills are coming due- to everyone. It is disheartening for people to forget why and how we fight because inbred in cultural indoctrination is that "it can't be happening here" even while it is, up to the minute the trouble comes right to your door.

My attitude has always been markedly different. Nixon revealed all( I was too young for the McCarthy days to permanently seal the image of the GOP) and I have never been disappointed in never contemplating a GOP government as acceptable. Always got worse. Concurrently the rage grew over the Dem counterpoint which history shows is not really that new and wrong-headed surrender to the worst lessons
of their own mistakes and that of the GOP hard right. This is more of the same and a self-fulfilling defeat of America- to sit it out. The only sitting should be sit-ins, civil disobedience not fading into the wallpaper of fascism. During the Revolutionary War we had the Tories, a hefty third of the absolutely passive(swing sitter-outers I suppose), and the revolutionaries. Among the Revolutionaries there were the rich, those with autocratic leanings, and "fallings out" to make G. Washington turn red with disapproval. So where does this rosy myth of Disney America keep coming from? The boob tube, the social net created by Dems when the people learned the last lesson the hard way, and personal comfort.

A sorry commentary on how our leaders, our volunteers, our best and brightest can be so simply oppressed and diverted by blatant vice and lies from a Coup not yet called out for its bleak reality- much less its current high crimes.

Who am I to argue with someone who put so much more into civic responsibility than I can hope to catch up on? A shameful comparison indeed, and I cede to the tired warrior my respect and reserve most of my anger for all those who have lied to him and let him down so fundamentally that he can't see what hit him.

[LoZoccolo]

81. Let us know what they do instead.

Probably nothing, lol.

[proud2BlibKansan]

99. Not this guy

He's a go-getter. He will get involved in something. Maybe more work with our anti-war group.

[CreekDog]

89. *Slightly* better than the other side? Ludicrous

[cali]

97. no shit.

idiots.

[ChiciB1]

101. I Posted Almost The Same Thing Last Week... While The Democrats "Think"

they have the GE wrapped up, what THEY don't seem to understand is that SO MANY OF US want to jump ship!!

I do support a candidate, but since I've been told by MSM and many here at DU that it's going to be Hillary... when it becomes official (can only wish it won't) I'm also DONE with politics too!

My father introduced me to politics a long time ago when I was 11 years old, and have been very active my whole adult life! But it soon may be OVER! My Party and My Country don't look anything like they once were!! It's just TOO BAD that most of those in D.C. aren't even bothering with "We The People" and have made a mockery of Democracy!!!!

[illinoisprogressive]

103. It is very much how so many feel. I find myself growing disgusted in it all

[LWolf]

104. He's not alone. Many are at that same place. n/t

[Nutmegger]

108. Thank you so much proud2Blib.

Thank you. :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

110. Anytime

:hi: