Hillary is not the first politician in Washington to declare Mission Accomplished a little too soon

[wndycty]

On Jay Leno, Obama lances Clinton

October 18, 2007

-snip-
''Hillary is not the first politician in Washington to declare 'Mission Accomplished' a little too soon,'' Obama said, referring to President Bush's 2003 speech in which he stood beneath a banner with those words and declared the end of major combat in Iraq.

''When your name is Barack Obama, you're always the underdog,'' the senator quipped.

In an interview that ranged from serious to silly, the Democratic presidential candidate predicted that his wife, Michelle, could best former President Clinton in a debate. He also groused about Bush's Iran policy and fessed up to sloppy housekeeping.
-snip-

''I don't want to be invited to the family hunting party,'' he said, alluding to a 2006 accident in which Cheney wounded a friend with shotgun pellets.
-end-

http://www.suntimes.com/news/elections/609372,obama101807a.article
Sweet blog column extra: Obama on Leno jabs Hillary. Leno asks "You would leave your wife alone with Bill Clinton?"

-snip-
Wearing his trademark tieless white shirt and dark suit, Obama, prompted by Leno, jabbed chief rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) who is surging in national and state polls. "Hillary appears to be a shoo-in is what they say. How discouraging is that? said Leno, handing the set-up to Obama.

Not discouraging at all, said Obama. "Hillary is not the first politician in Washington to declare mission accomplished a little too soon."

Former President Bill Clinton is a major surrogate for his wife and Leno asked Obama about the Bill factor.
Obama touted wife Michelle, his chief surrogate.

"Although Michelle, my wife, is no slouch. You see -- if there's a debate between Michelle and Bill, you know, I'm putting my money on my girl," said Obama.

Obama gave Leno an opening and he grabbed the chance. Leno tossed back, "You would leave your wife alone with Bill Clinton, would you? You want to rethink that?"
-snip-

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/10/sweet_blog_column_extra_obama_1.html

[ShortnFiery]

1. Thanks for this - too cool!

"Although Michelle, my wife, is no slouch. You see -- if there's a debate between Michelle and Bill, you know, I'm putting my money on my girl," said Obama."

I admire "your girl" also ... Michelle's one excellent role model for my young daughter as well as young women who strive to care for their husbands and children FIRST and foremost.

Michelle, IMO, truly "walks the walk" of a devoted wife and mother. :thumbsup:

Michelle Obama! :applause: :loveya:

[Stuckinthebush]

2. "My girl"?

Ick.

But a bigger ick with Leno's line about leaving her alone in a room with Bill.

The misogyny runneth over.

[papau]

3. Next week on Leno - size of penis jokes n/t

n/t

[Stuckinthebush]

4. Jeez...no kidding

Is Leno still considered to be funny by the public?

Actually, come to think of it, was he ever?

[maximusveritas]

5. You have a problem with him saying "my girl"?

Please tell me you're not serious.

[Stuckinthebush]

6. You don't?

Please tell me you are more critically aware than that.

[maximusveritas]

8. No I don't

This is the first time I've ever heard anyone be offended by that phrasing.
Maybe we need to go tell Smokey and the Temptations about this. Millions of couples are dancing to their song without realizing that it's misogynistic.

[Stuckinthebush]

12. Read some feminist and critical research

The use of "girl" to describe a woman in a male dominated society is highly misogynistic.

The challenge is to understand how words are used to maintain control. If I called my wife "my girl", I'd get an earful.

Here's a for instance: My wife's mother works in a physician's office in rural South Carolina. She and the male physicians call the women who work there "girls". This parental stance is used to elevate the male physicians and lump the female staff into a group that is to be controlled. Funny thing, this term "girls" is used for the secretarial staff only. The female nurses are not referred to as "girls" and occupy a sort of middle-ground in the office society. From a critical perspective this is fascinating.

Back to Obama (and let me point out that I like him and am engaging in a critical analysis of his language from a societal standpoint not an individual one) - you would never hear his wife refer to him as "my boy". Our society allows for men and women to debase a woman's position as one of a girl (immature, silly, illogical - all can be synonyms here), but a woman is not allowed to debase a man as a boy (immature, irrational, wild, - all synonyms). To do so would raise major eyebrows.

As for the Temptations, of course they were misogynistic. They grew up and performed in a very misogynistic world. Many couples do dance to tunes and accept language that is misogynistic as well without consciously realizing the power dynamics that words convey and how these words control society.

Food for thought.

[tomreedtoon]

16. This is not a college dorm. This is real life.

The greatest problem I always had with feminists was the way they acted like Republicans. They frame the debate and allow no dissent. They are the sociological version of the Religious Right and the Taliban.

[Gormy Cuss]

19. Quite right. In real life calling adult women 'girls' is misogynistic.

While I won't argue that Obama shouldn't call his wife "my girl" as a personal endearment the use of girl and girls to describe women in the workplace or in public is misogynistic. The "office girls" is the best example. Calling them girls reinforces their inferior stature as support staff.

That's not something that I learned in a college dorm. I learned it in the workplace while working on discrimination issues.

[Stuckinthebush]

22. I don't think critical analysis stops at the dorm

I am curious about your contention that dissent is not allowed. I'm positing that the use of girl to describe a woman is misogynistic and I gave some examples that describe how male power is maintained in our society. Please, dissent if you'd like.

In terms of framing the debate, how is it that individuals involved in critical gender analyses frame a debate like Republicans? More specifically, how did my post frame the debate like a Republican?

[cuke]

32. I know people who have gotten in trouble at work for "girl"

Just try and call a group of professionals "girls"

[Stuckinthebush]

65. No thanks

That would be very very bad.

I wonder how much class plays into acceptance or rejection of misogynistic language in the workplace. I would imagine that such language is rejected at any level, but again, power is at issue. A group of lawyers has much more power than a group of female wait staff perhaps.

[cuke]

75. IME, it is a class thing

IME, you're less likely to here a non-professional female object to it.

Funny you should mention lawyers. The people who got in trouble were in a law firm. It was female lawyers who made the complaints. The female support staff did'nt seem to get upset with that kind of talk

[raccoon]

85. May be because they have less power, and therefore have to put up with more crap. nt

[Ninja Jordan]

34. 'If I called my wife "my girl", I'd get an earful.'

I'm glad I'm not married to your wife.

[Stuckinthebush]

39. She's wonderful

and very attuned to societal power issues related to gender.

You'd like her - brilliant person.

[Nedsdag]

41. Bill calls Hillary "my girl."

Get a life.

[Stuckinthebush]

45. Get a life?

What does that mean?

Become a non-critical consumer of language in our society? Fail to point out misogynistic language to fellow progressives? Shall I stop pointing out racist language or anti-gay language too? How about classist language?

I guess because Bill Clinton uses misogynistic language then it is somehow ok.

[noamnety]

37. I'm surprised you are unaware it can be offensive

girl
1. a female child, from birth to full growth.
2. a young, immature woman, esp. formerly, an unmarried one.
3. a daughter: My wife and I have two girls.
4. Informal: Sometimes Offensive. a grown woman, esp. when referred to familiarly: She's having the girls over for bridge next week.
5. girlfriend; sweetheart.
6. Often Offensive. a female servant.
7. Usually Offensive. a female employee.
8. a female who is from or native to a given place: She's a Missouri girl.
9. girls, (used with a singular or plural verb) a. a range of sizes from 7 to 14, for garments made for girls.
b. a garment in this size range.
c. the department or section of a store where these garments are sold
------------------

I forget that some people really don't have a clue that they are using words in offensive ways. My husband's uncle, now dead, was like that on race issues. He'd say the most racist things, and not have any idea that they were offensive, or why. Hopefully by bringing this out in the open it will cause some people to reconsider their own language choices.

[wndycty]

9. It is common for people in intimate relationships to refer to their mates as. . .

"the boy" "my man" "my girl" "my lady" etc.

I think this a much ado about nothing, especially considering Hillary has said "I'm your girl."

A woman I dated recently used to refer to me as "the boy." Now considering this was an interracial relationship with her being white and me being Black I could have gotten militant and sensitive but everyone in her peer group refers to their significant others as the boy.

[Stuckinthebush]

13. Not "the boy" or "my boy"

But, yes, many men refer to their mates as "my girl".

The issue here is power and the lack of critically analyzing the way words maintain power for males in our society.

[wndycty]

14. So how do you feel about Hillary's use of "I'm your girl?"

I saw it as a cute an clever way to deliver an endearing one liner. While you are offended by Obama uses of "my girl" I would love to hear how NOW and other feminists react to his usage, especially in the context in which it was used. I think if you look at the relationship between Barack and Michelle you would know he is not trying to maintain any power by using it.

I think we know there are a ton of words and phrases relating to race, gender, religion, class and sexual orientation that upon even a passing analysis are definitely used in poor taste. I may be wrong but this is not one of those circumstances.

[Stuckinthebush]

15. "Offended" is not correct

I'm critically analyzing his speech. I understand that we live in a world where certain phrases are routinely used without consciously analyzing why or how they are used.

I am not offended by Hillary's use of "I'm your girl", but I do think that it is an unwise phrase. She's not My Girl, she's a very capable politician and leader who shouldn't feel that she has to refer to herself as a girl to get votes. It's unfortunate.

Let's flip it around and take Obama for instance, how would we feel if his slogan was "I'm your boy!"? It would be terrible because not only can we analyze that from a critical gender theory standpoint but also from a critical race theory standpoint.

I dare say you wouldn't hear Fred Thompson or John Edwards use "I'm your boy!' either.

Is Barak trying to maintain power over Michelle by using the term "my girl"? No, I don't think so either but what he is doing is reinforcing the use of power-filled language by men in our society.

[wndycty]

17. Oh please. Intent or lack thereof makes a world of difference in the gray areas. . .

I also find it laughable that you are trying to imply that the Temptations were misogynistic in their use of "My Girl," I just don't think "My Girlfriend" or "My Significant Other" would be as catchy.

[Stuckinthebush]

20. Intent matters not in societal power dynamics

One could argue that it is the duty of progressives to critically analyze their world - including speech.

It is not "laughable" that the Temptations were misogynistic, it is a fact. We all were. I'm quite sure that the Temptations had certain beliefs about the role of men and women in our society at the time and they probably felt (as did most people in 1964) that women were somehow inferior to men.

[wndycty]

25. So when Deniece Williams sang "Let's Hear it for the boy" was that anti-male. . .

. . .I'm not trying to be funny, but let's be consistent.

[Stuckinthebush]

30. I think that the context of that song was about a boy

if I'm not mistaken.

[wndycty]

31. Its not about a boy. . .here are the lyrics:

My baby he dont talk sweet
He ain't got much to say
But he loves me, loves me, loves me
I know that he loves me anyway

And maybe he dont dress fine
But i dont really mind
Because every time he pulls me near
I just want to cheer

Lets hear it for the boy
Lets give the boy a hand
Lets hear it for my baby
You know you go to understand

Whoa, maybe he's no romeo
But he's my lovin one-man show
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa
Let's hear it for the boy

Rusty, Ariel, Irene & Doreen
My baby may not be rich
He's wathcin every dime
But he loves me loves me loves
We always have a real good time

And maybe he sings off key
But thats alright by me
Because what he does he does so well
Makes me wanna yell

Lets hear it for the boy
Lets give the boy a hand
Lets hear it for my baby
You know you go to understand

Maybe hes no romeo
But hes my lovin one man show
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa
Lets hear it for the boy

Maybe hes no casanova
Still his kisses knock me ov-ah

Hear it for the boy
Lets give the boy a hand
Lets hear it for my baby
You know you gotta understand

Oh, he dont score at bowl-a-rama
Still you gotta thank his mama

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa
Lets hear it for the boy
Hear it for my man
Let's hear it for my baby

[Stuckinthebush]

38. OK...thanks.

My perception of the song is interesting in that I always assumed it was talking about a boy - or a teenager really. So in fact, the use of the word "boy" colored my concept of the song. Of course, the song doesn't specifically discuss the age of the intended recipient, but the word "man" is used at the end.

Interesting.

[noamnety]

35. I very rarely turn to popular music for guidance on gender equality

In a professional environment, men are referred to as men or guys, and women are often referred to as girls.

It's misogynistic, and has grown from a culture where women have been treated like children.

Quoting music lyrics doesn't change that history.

[Stuckinthebush]

42. Yes, music is a mirror

And often shouldn't be used to determine what is offensive or not offensive. There are many examples of music using misogynistic language - pick up any country or hip hop or rock album and I'm sure there is some lyric that reinforces the male power structure in society.

[MGKrebs]

49. Doesn't work that way. It's the dominant part of the equation

that has to be extra careful to refrain from continued reinforcement of their dominant position. Groups that have been traditionally or historically suppressed get a lot more leeway in their behavior in this regard.

It's like in a work environment. It's pretty hard for an assistant to sexually harass a boss, because the boss can just discipline them. When the assistant gets harassed on the other hand, there's often not much they can do except quit.

And in a different arena, this is why most of us on the left accept affirmative action. We recognize that a little imbalance is necessary for a while until true equality is reached.

Men dominant = "girl" bad.

Women historically not dominant = "boy" OK.



Although all but one of my "girlfriends" are OK with it. :evilgrin:

[Stuckinthebush]

56. Nicely put

It is all about who has the power and who does not.

[jenmito]

50. Michelle is his girl just as Hillary claims to be your girl.

It's funny to see how many people are seeing this as "unwise." He was being affectionate, saying he'd bet on his girl over Bill. Over-analyzing maybe?

[Stuckinthebush]

54. No, not over analyzing

Simply analyzing.

And it is a simple discussion that addresses the larger issue of accepted misogynistic language in our society. Do I think that Barak is a raving misogynist? Not at all. Do I think his comments are open to analysis? Absolutely.

[jenmito]

57. So you think Hillary used misogynistic language when declaring she's "your girl"?

n/t

[Stuckinthebush]

62. Of course

n/t

[incapsulated]

83. It doesn't merit analzying

Because regardless of the original intent, language is a living thing and meaning can change over time.

Calling someone your girl, to me, is sweet and almost innocent. Like an old fashioned boyfriend/girlfriend.

Insisting that I am wrong and mindlessly accepting mysoginistic language, and I proudly call myself a feminist, is insulting.

He didn't call her his bitch, for chrissakes.

[JI7]

47. many women refer to other guys as "my boy"

if their is an intimate relationship such as OBama with Michelle.

even if they aren't and they just like the guy the term "my boy" is often used.

"keep your hands off of my boy", "that's my boy".

in the context Obama used it was ok.

he didn't say it in a serious discussion on his relationship with Michelle. but more in a lighhearted joking conversation on a comedy show.

[Stuckinthebush]

52. Good point

Some do. I don't hear it often, but you are correct, it is used.

I don't think that it would be used in public by Michelle Obama ever to describe Barak, however.

[JI7]

55. i can totally see Michelle using it if she is teasing Obama

as she does sometimes. she wont say it if she is discussion serious issues.

btw, the "my girl" is often used with girls among each other. "that's my girl and i know when she is telling the truth". and of course Hillary's "i'm your girl". in my opinion Hillary's use of "my girl" was directed more towards other women when she used it in the debate.

[MGKrebs]

68. Right. It's like a handicapped person could tell a joke about being handicapped, but

someone who is not handicapped must be very, very careful about telling such a joke. A member of the group can use the "derogatory" or diminutive terms, but others should not. I think Bill Cosby is on a bit of a crusade about the usage of some words like this, even within members of a group.

[JI7]

70. it depends on the word

certain words such as bitch being used to describe others even if it is used among women can be derogatory. the same with the N Word historically used to demean black people. it's demeaning even if they use it among themselves.

but the term "girl" itself is not demeaning. it can be used in a demeaning way such as maybe the boss referring to their female employees as girls. but a man using it in a comedic context to refer to his wife is not the same thing.

[Rockholm]

7. I can't stand Leno.

[noamnety]

36. Thank you for this post.

I am tired of women in politics being refered to as children (or worse) - or refering to themselves as children.

And I am discouraged that people on the left can't see the problem with that.

[jenmito]

40. Huh? It's a term of endearment! Relax!

:eyes:

[Stuckinthebush]

48. It's not really an eyeroll statement

A term of endearment is open for critical analysis, is it not? Why do we say what we do? Why is misogyny not challenged by progressives when racism and anti-gay rhetoric is (as they should be)?

I know it is uncomfortable and throws a turd in the punchbowl, but honestly, shouldn't we say, "Hmmm, perhaps not the best choice of words to describe a person like Michelle Obama".

[jenmito]

53. I totally disagree...

Was Hillary misogynistic by calling HERSELF "your girl"? I think you're being over-dramatic.

[Stuckinthebush]

58. Easy now...

no drama here - just a discussion of a term used by a politician.

By Hillary calling herself a girl she is acknowledging and playing into the dominant male power language. By calling herself a "girl" she is hoping to soften her image with men who are scared of her power.

So yes, it is a misogynistic statement even by Hillary.

[jenmito]

60. Did you see any Hillary supporters CALL it mysogynistic at the time?

Because all I saw were toasts and 'you go, girl!" and "that's my girl!"

[Stuckinthebush]

61. Indeed

They did.

[jenmito]

64. I didn't see it at all. I'd love to see a thread about it. n/t

[Stuckinthebush]

66. I'm sorry - my post was confusing

I meant to say, they did say "You go girl!" and "that's my girl!"

Sorry for the confusion.

I was agreeing with your premise.

[jenmito]

80. OK. No problem.

:hi:

[BeyondGeography]

51. And yet Hillary can declare, "I'm your girl"

or, for the sake of consistency, did that bother you too?

[Stuckinthebush]

63. It does

Even more so.

[BigDDem]

10. Did BO go on to reference where Hillary declared

'Mission Accomplished?'

[wndycty]

11. I'm not sure if you understand this was a late night talk show and he was not . . .

. . .speaking literally. I think all candidates, including Hillary, use similar one liners. The whole inevitability tact that the Clinton camp uses set her up for this comment.

[MGKrebs]

21. But it's not the Clinton camp that uses that.

That's the POINT. it's the talking heads who apparently say that all the time (although I personally have only seen it rarely). Is there any reference anywhere that someone from "the Clinton camp" has used that idea?

[geek tragedy]

24. Who do you think pushes that meme behind the scenes?

Mark Penn regularly touts data showing how Clinton is an unstoppable juggernaut.

[Cameron27]

23. I don't like the inference here,

and I don't like the phrase "mission accomplished" being diluted. Let's use bush's own propaganda, especially this gem, to attack the gop.

[dogman]

27. I agree.

It's as mean spirited as it is clever, not wise IMO.

[Dawgs]

28. Very wise, and here's why. We, and the media, are talking about it.

If he doesn't say anything that the press reports on, his show appearance will be a non-story.

The only people that will be offended by it are those that are already Hillary supporters.

[dogman]

29. I'm not a Hillary supporter, yet.

Things like this could move me that way, however. If I remember the '04 primary correctly, much was made of the mudslinging and the fact Edwards was seen as not participating was credited for his high polling. It's not a big deal, just unwise IMO.

[Cameron27]

33. I'm not a Clinton supporter either,

although I've been defending her from a lot of unnecessary trashing. But using Mission Accomplished for anything other than attacking the RW machine isn't wise at all. I want our GE nominee to be able to pull that slogan out without having it snapped back against him/her. At this point they can do it by posting clips of Obama accusing Hillary of the same thing.

[Ethelk2044]

43. I realize you are a Hillary Supporter. However the media has been

pushing Hillary and that she has already won the Primary. She has been stating My Administration will ..... As if she has already one. Therefore he has a right to tell her in a round about way she has not won the election.

[Cameron27]

77. I'm not a Hillary supporter,

but you don't always try to be accurate in what you write, and I'll stand by what I said about Mission Accomplished. He has a right to say whatever the hell he wants to say, and I have the right to disagree.

[Semper_FiFi]

26. It was BO who said: "Mission Accomplished" about his own candidacy....

Even though he is currently about 30 percentage points behind Hillary. He appears to be able to get into peoples wallets easily enough...but he doesn't know what to do with the money once he gets it. The more negative he gets the more he will continue his slide into third place. He just does not connect with the voters.


"Mission Accomplished" my ass!:evilgrin:

for polling info please check this out:

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08dem.htm

[Ethelk2044]

44. Hillary and the Media has been acting like she has already been sworn in for months.

Therefore his words are correct.

[incapsulated]

71. Hillary has? How so?

Has she stopped campaigning? Is she debating republicans? Is she taking resumes for her cabinet? Has she declared it all over?

Look, Obama is playing politics, but it is what he has to do.

[Semper_FiFi]

79. Link please? n/t

[Ethelk2044]

46. Semper FI the only poll that counts is the ones that start in Iowa on

Election Day

[Semper_FiFi]

78. Keep telling yourself that as your candidate sinks...

[Catherine Vincent]

18. I missed this.

Is it on youtube?

[bigwillq]

59. Why can't I get excited over Obama?

:shrug: What am I missing? I want to like him, well I do like him I just wish I liked him more. Like every candidate there are some things I like about him and some things I don't. But I don't get that excited feeling with him the way I did with Dean.

[zulchzulu]

69. It was amazing seeing people see him speak in public

When Obama spoke earlier this week, that was the first time I saw him in person. He definitely has charisma and can command a room (with 4,000 people) easily and not make you feel like he's just "speaking".

If you can see him live somewhere, it would perhaps give you some better insight.

[bigwillq]

72. I would like to see him in person

I live in CT...I will have to check his sked....most of the DEM candidates NEVER come to CT.

He still has time to win me over though. I am voting for DK because he is the candidate that best shares my vision in how the country and world should run but I will support any of the DEM candidates who get the nomination, even though I don't really like a few of them.

[JI7]

73. i think people just have different tastes

nothing more than that. personally for me, Dean never appealed to me the way he did for others like yourself. but i didn't really view it any more than that. Obama on the other hand i view as exciting. i like Kerry also.

just different tastes.

what i find disturbing are the people who continue to not only support but worship Bush. it's just so contrary to all the facts we have about him.

[rufus dog]

67. come on lighten up!

My girl is offensive, way to take something completely out of context. HRC use of it is O.K. but Obama talking about his wife is not? What a joke. I call people Big Boy all the time, or you go girl as a joke. I use it with people I like, not to offend and my friends take it that way. If it was used on a subordinant, Hey boy get me that contract, or girl have you finished the expenses, that is different.

[Vinca]

74. Did Hillary make a bit of an error with her million dollar earmark

for a Woodstock museum? Now, I loved that period in time as much as anyone, but if you're running for president, do you really want to give the opposition the images of Woodstock to work with?

[cuke]

76. Yes

I've spent decades in the area. That earmark has significantly contributed to the economy in the area which was dying before the development of the Woodstock site.

[illinoisprogressive]

81. That Mission Accomplished was classic. simply classic

[illinoisprogressive]

82. I don't think Michelle minds Obama calling her his girl

[Auntie Bush]

84. So show/tell me when/where Hillary ever suggested mission accomplished?

For fellow Dems to jump on the bandwagon and laugh at an inaccurate comment...isn't playing fair. Why are we laughing a Leno's jokes making fun of Dems?