Everybody Claims Hillary is a Corporate Democrat

[Blue_State_Elitist]

Everybody claims that Hillary Clinton is a corporate democrat, but everybody here seems to worship Al Gore. Did anybody else actually watch his film closely? Aside from being a great movie on the dangers of global warming, it was also a gigantic add for Apple Computers (a corporation for which he is a board member). Did anybody else wonder why we had to watch Gore type his presentation into his apple powerbook over a dozen times?


If you don't believe me check out the main apple page that shows up on safari. http://www.apple.com/startpage

I have been a loyal DU reader and poster since it began after the 2000 election but have recently become sick of the Hillary bashing. We all are (or at least should be) Democrats united in defeating the Repukes and their attempt to destroy our country. The hostility has become disgusting. I love Obama, I love Edwards, I love Hillary, I love Kucinich, and I love all of the candidates. They are all good people who want take this country in a better direction. Any politician in this country who wants to be successful is going to be corporate. Our country, whether we like it our not, is corporate.


Let's stand together and beat these Bush bastards in 2008.

[memerider]

1. Corporate democrat

I think Hillary is better suited to the presidency than Gore, although my first preference is Bill Richardson. While I did vote for Gore, I also felt wary that he's sort of a one-issue technocrat (I was downright horrified when Bush won). I actually worked on the National Research and Education Network with Gore many years ago, when he was still a senator from TN. He is a great, bright, and committed guy. But I think Hillary is more well-rounded on issues. Biden verbally attacked that kid who asked an innocent question back on the second debate, and showed his true colors--he's too much like Bush. Obama strikes me as too socialist and a smooth talker with little substance--he makes Hillary look right of center and needs more experience. I might vote for him later. I also like John Edwards, but I wonder if he's going to be distracted by his wife's illness.

[ShortnFiery]

17. "Obama strikes me as too socialist ..."

:rofl:

[Sparkly]

34. How is Obama "too socialist," especially compared with Clinton on policy proposals?

I think Gore's strength is being well-rounded on issues, and on the various facets of DC government... He took on many different issues and initiatives as VP (and Congressman and Senator).

Just a difference of opinion -- not attacking you.

[physioex]

2. You are probably correct....

Look no politician out there is untainted. Not even Gore. I have no problem with any politician making money in some manner. But Hillary is esp deplorable I mean Rupert Murdoch, war in Iraq, Kyl-Liberman? :wtf:

[Clintonista2]

3. A couple of questions...

What other Democrats has Murdoch donated to? Would it surprise you to know that Ted Kennedy and John Kerry took Murdoch donations? Do you consider Ted Kennedy and John Kerry to be a corporate Democrat? Who else voted for Kyl-Lieberman? Would it surprise you to know that many Dems who voted against the IWR voted for Kyl-Lieberman, such as Dick Durbin? Do you consider Dick Durbin to be a pro-war Dem? There is a double standard when it comes to Hillary, yet for some reason, people on DU really can't see this.

[physioex]

6. Bill Clinton and Hillary

Are centrists in my opinion. He gave us NAFTA and "welfare reform". The right loves to demonize both of them as left wing liberals but really they are centrists....

[Clintonista2]

7. Do you consider the majority of the democratic party to be centrists?

I ask because Hillary has voted with the Democratic majority 93% of the time. Compare that to Obama who has voted with the Democratic majority 94% of the time. Wouldn't a centrist vote with them more like, 50% of the time?

[memerider]

11. Centrists

Yes, I think most democrats are just left of center and most republicans are just right of center, but we hear mostly from the wingnuts because they are the rabid ones--the squeaky wheels.

I think Bill Clinton was attempting to get things done pragmatically and went for bipartisan solutions, in stark contrast to Bush II, who is so self-righteous that he never backs down or listens to anyone until he's a completely cornered rat and he attacks anyone not in lockstep with him. For all his mistakes, the so-called "surplus" did happen on Bill's watch.

I don't think Obama has learned enough vicariously and I won't vote for him. I think Clinton, Richardson, and Edwards all are realists and recognize that social conservatism and socialism both turn to fascism when they go too far. It's always a pendulum swing, and I think we need to go to the left a bit--but not as far as we went to the right in the last round.

[memerider]

9. Double standard

I think that there are a number of issues people have with Hillary. First of all, there are the mysogynists, who believe women should stay in secondary roles. With the fastest growing religious groups in the U.S. all teaching fundamentalist doctrine that sidelines women, this isn't surprising. I do think it's unfortunate that ancient doctrine is still running the show for some folks.

I also think some people think she should have cut Bill loose for his frat-boy antics. Like it or not, Hillary believes in forgiving people for mistakes. I would have kicked him to the curb myself, but I certainly don't think less of her for forgiving him instead.

I also think the far left has become a little too powerful for my tastes. I'm a more progressive centrist, and both the far left and far right scare me. They both are wingnuts without a strategic view. I see the left's weakness as being naive about human nature. There will always be psychos and lunatics, and acting like all people have the potential to come together in peace is not in our best interest. We need to be realists--and pragmatic.

But, I digress. I think Hillary has learned a lot since Bill was pres, and I'm sure she'll make mistakes if elected. But I also think she'd be a good president.

I took one of those quizzes and was told my views are more like John Edwards'. If he and his wife can get past her illness, I think he has an excellent presidential personality.

[physioex]

10. On the contrary.....

The people on the far left do not think that all people will come together in love and peace. Rather we are worried that our policies and interference are in fact responsible for creating the conflicts.... Like propping oppressive regimes, providing arms used in ethnic cleansing, etc, etc....

[memerider]

18. The far left

I can't believe anyone from Frostbite Falls considers himself on the far left!

Seriously, I agree that some of our policies shoring up crazies due to perceived "interests" has been a mistake in quite a few cases. I got a B instead of an A on a high school term paper because I didn't go along with the propaganda in the Vietnam workbook. The teacher wrote scathing remarks in the margin because I gave my own views instead of parroting the text.

We keep getting into these "enemy of my enemy is my friend" situations, and I agree that this needs to stop. I guess I don't think of people who are against this as being on the "far left." I think of the far left as people who want to disarm Americans, especially those who think that things like gun bans will somehow stop gang activity and terrorism.

I also think of the far left as those who can't come out and speak the truth that a very significant portion of our homicides are committed by gangs, immigrants, and illegal immigrants. It's not politically correct to say so in their company. We keep passing more restrictive firearm laws that either don't work or only affect those who obey laws. That's counterproductive and what I consider "feel good" legislation. It's like "no child left behind," which leaves more children behind than it helps.

Anyone who believes in the value of science will get my vote over anyone who does not in the general election. I will not vote for anyone who believes the world is 4 to 6 thousand years old, and 4 republicans raised their hand when that question was asked. I think we need to treat drugs as a public health problem and put violent criminals in the jail space. I think we need to make abortion even easier to get. I am rabidly *for* stem cell research as a potential future source of life-saving treatment. I am rabidly for my rights guaranteed by the second amendment--including getting free of "gun free zones" that only attract lunatics. I am rabidly *for* cutting and running in Iraq and focusing on Afghanistan. I am rabidly *for* ending faith-based funding, because Christian and Islamic extremists are getting our tax money and using it to indoctrinate people in their darkest hour--and once the Supreme Court upheld the Salvation Army's right to hire and fire those distributing our tax-funded services based on belief, we crossed the church state line. I want "God" out of my pledge. I want to experiment with healthcare reform to find something that works better. I don't want people to have the option to "opt out" of healthcare, and I don't want them to have to go to the emergency room. I want poor women to have access to abortion without strings.

I'm not likely to get much of this, but hey, that's what I believe in. I test out as a "centrist" on those online instruments, but I'm more like a hybrid!

[physioex]

19. Frostbite Falls....

LOL good one. I think there is practically no one here on DU that is against law biding citizens owning guns that's not what we are about as many own a gun including myself.

As far as Afghanistan, the US policy has been a disaster. We replaced one religious militia with another with the Taliban returning in full force and poppy in full production. Afghanistan is poor country and has never done anything to harm the United States. As a matter of fact, Raygun used it's people to fight a proxy war with the Soviet Union and abandoned it's people like a used condom. The real enemies are countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan our supposed "allies"....

[memerider]

22. Afghanistan

I think the roaches had settled in Afghanistan, and we left the people high and dry when we briefly engaged them and then left. I have my own ideas about what we should have done, but that's OBE.

Anyway, it's interesting to interact with people who feel strongly about their pet candidates and the reasons for it. I think we almost need to take the Constitution back down the metal and start over. It's got so many layers of wallpaper on it that it's barely legible.

When I think of "left" or "right" I think of people who want to dictate people's actions for different reasons. It's interesting to learn that people I consider centrists consider themselves to be on the far left.

I think legalizing drugs would be a great first step to cleaning out all the people who are in prison on 3 strikes non-violent drug charges and forcing the militant islamists to regroup because poppies are worthless. I remember before we attacked Afghanistan, there was an underground Afghani women's movement trying to convince outsiders to help them through an underground website. I feel like we really let them down with our actions there.

[ikojo]

23. Has Rupert Murdoch hosted a fund raiser

for Kerry or Kennedy?

I don't think so!!!!

[Clintonista2]

25. New rule: It's ok for Murdoch to donate money to you, but he can't hold fundraisers for you?

How come everytime I see Murdoch brought up, it's "He donated to that dastardly Hillary Clinton!"? Are you shifting from "donated to" to "fundraised for" because I pointed out the double standard?

[ikojo]

31. Many in corporate America play both sides

of the fence and tie their fortunes and desires to the party that stands to win big in the next elections. If Rupert Murdoch has contributed to other Democratic politicians it is probably because he wants to buy them as he has Hillary. Again, I am of the opinion that it matters more that he hosted a fund raiser, attended by him, for Hillary than if he contributed money to other candidates. Personally hosting a fund raiser indicates a whole different, more personal, level of interest than merely writing a check.

I doubt Mr Murdoch has contributed to Dennis Kucinich!!!

Also, I doubt people need reminding but Hillary did serve on the board of Wal-Mart. CORPORATE DEMOCRAT for sure!

[memerider]

4. Hillary

Hillary's vote on Iraq was understandable. I watched the C-SPAN footage, and the actual intell came from the Brits from a source they deemed "reliable" and irrespective of what Powell said later, he acted mighty convinced. Also, notice that Israel bombed *something* in Syria and we heard hardly a peep out of Syria or the other countries claimed to be the source and the target.

I personally felt some cognitive dissonance about Iraq, but I expected Bush to get some popular power-hungry Baathist to keep the Iraqi military intact so civil war wouldn't break out. What we did there was similar to what might happen if someone took out the U.S. government and left Pat Robertson and James Dobson to duke it out. Absolutely insane.

Of course, if people want to bash Hillary, that's fine. I love my Constitution and don't want any of my rights infringed, and won't mess with others' rights in return. I'm clear I won't vote for Biden or Obama, so I understand if people have logical reasons not to vote for Hillary. I prefer Richardson, anyway, and hope he surprises everyone and wins.

[physioex]

5. Welcome to DU......

I have donated to the Edwards camapaign. What I like about him is that he admitted the vote on the Iraq resolution was a mistake and would not vote that way again.

On Edit: You are right, about what Shrub did in letting the idiots running Iraq after the invasion. He let people who went to Patrick Henry college take charge and most of the people were home schooled never experienced another culture in the life and not mention didn't even have a passport.

[memerider]

20. The uneducated educated

Yes, those who are "educated" at Patrick Henry, Regent's, Liberty, Oral Roberts--where they learn skills coupled with a strong dose of indoctrination. We need to put them through anti-brainwashing programming!

I disagreed with the attack on Iraq, but from what was coming out of the Pentagon and State, I understand why those who voted for it did so. Had I been an insider and not an outside observer, I might have done the same. As I said, Hillary is not my first choice at this point, and except for Biden and Obama, I like all the other democratic candidates the same or more. I'm not voting for Biden or Obama. They both are dealbreakers.

[physioex]

21. Sure....

Whatever works for you is fine. Have a good nite and I will catch you here in DU land....

[ikojo]

32. As the drums were being pounded for war

I read the agonist blog as well as the Guardian newspaper on line. I knew Bush was lying and that he was playing the fear card. Face it congress and Senate fell sway to the fear of being called soft on terror or unpatriotic.

How could Hillary and others not know Bush was lying if I and millions around the world knew he was? Remember the huge anti war marches in NYC and San Francisco in February 2003? Those folks knew Bush was lying and didn't buy the WMD line.

Sure was hard being a ten percenter back in the day, that's for sure.

[sandnsea]

15. Which were known to be lies

because the CIA kept them out of Bush's Cincinatti speech in Oct 2002. Yet neither Clinton will confront this, or the DSM, or any other lie that Bush/Cheney told. What's more, it isn't just the vote, it's the years of actually supporting the war, and now pretending that she never did. When will people wake up.

[physioex]

16. That's right...

Come clean and say, "I made a mistake in voting for that resolution". People on this board say, "It's more complicated than that". I say bull. Say we made a mistake and we need to make repairations to Iraq set up a government and depart ASAP!!

[JTFrog]

27. Very logical reasons.

Her Iraq and Iran votes. Her pander to the corporate insurance companies with her mandatory insurance plan. Her outsourcing stance. Yes... CORPORATE. That's not for the people. Not to mention, she has made ZERO mention of restoring the constitution should she become president. So why do you think she voted the way she did? Perhaps because she was assured she would inherit those powers?

I believe absolutely insane is watching a repeat with Iran.

You haven't come out of the woods with your cognitive dissonance. Or have you always supported a platform of Profit trumps health care, Profit trumps domestic jobs, Power trumps peace?

[Luminous Animal]

8. Ahem. Al Gore did not make the documentary.

Davis Guggenheim did.

[sandnsea]

12. Hillary and Kucinich - just the same

Why bother having a primary if you don't talk about the differences in the candidates.

I do not get these threads.

How old are you and what is your economic situation? Are health care and wages not on your agenda?

[memerider]

24. Hillary and Kucinich?!

Do you think Kucinich has a prayer? I really wasn't taking him seriously.

I'm pretty much flat broke and could use a raise. But I watched while all the large U.S. companies moved their home offices to the Bahamas, their tech support call centers to Ireland and India, and their financial centers to Sophia Antipolis--and I notice the U.S. government still lets them operate as if they were American companies on contracts since they keep their large buildings in cities like Florham Park, NJ and Chicago and "pretend" to be American companies. I think that needs to stop.

I already mentioned healthcare (if you were directing that question to me). Our healthcare system is really just another make-work welfare system, where all the layers of paper pushers do "managed care" work that doesn't need to be done for a salary that gives them just enough disposable income so they don't revolt, and it looks like people have jobs when it's really a welfare scam. Otherwise, I love our healthcare system, with all its burdens and limitations even for those who do have health insurance. And our eldercare system is even worse. It's all very broken, and nothing any of the candidates recommend sounds to me like it will fix it all. What a mess. I also don't have all the answers, just some ideas in some areas. But, as I said earlier, I do think we need something besides everyone without insurance stacking up in emergency rooms.

The Contract On America a la Gingrich is a deadly legacy.

[ikojo]

33. Bill Clinton and the DLC bunch, including Al Gore,

championed NAFTA and did all he could do to get is passed. NAFTA led the way for manufacturing jobs to make a hasty exit out of the US.

In 1999, when thousands of working people were in the streets of Seattle protesting the WTO, Bill Clinton was in the suites romancing the corporate executives.

I know Bill is not running but I think if (and that is a HUGE IF) Hillary gets the nomination and manages to survive Republican swift boating and wins, it will be a co-presidency.

No, we do not need another four years of DLC pro corporate politics.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

28. Well

I'm not sure what my personal information has to do with this?

[sandnsea]

13. dupe n/t

[ShortnFiery]

14. Corporate or NOT, the threat of political royalty trumps party.

And YES! = I'm a loyal democrat who helps at the polls and canvassing local neighborhoods.

HOWEVER, the American people have had eight years of Clinton - IMO, that's enough! - it's time for new blood running The Executive Branch. Not unlike the madness of media consolidation into absurdity, I don't want Bill's DLC back in the WH totaling 16 years. How much of The Political Process do you think the DLC will control if the worst happens? :thumbsdown:

[sufrommich]

29. So now it's not that she is corporate owned,

it's because she is the wife of Bill. You need to make up your mind as to why you feel such hatred towards her and stick with it. I'm beginning to think it might be personal with you.

[ShortnFiery]

35. How about multifaceted reasoning. Come on, I know you've got that?

:hi: p.s. I don't personally hate "The Clintons" but I DESPISE their DLC with every fiber of my political being. :shrug:

[Perry Logan]

26. Only a few people say Hillary is a corporate Democrat--a contention easily disproven by the facts.

That's probably why they repeat it over and over again--in the same way Republicans repeat their beliefs ovewr and over, never mind the facts:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3602202

The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, the percentage on the left is right is Obama's score. Sources: http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php
===============================================================================================================================Hillary Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%

[BootinUp]

30. So true. n/t