Does anyone else feel like they are living in bizarro world?

[Dawgs]

Hillary leads by 33% in some poll, yet not one Hillary supporter can explain why she would be better than the other candidates.

I can't think of one position where she has better ideas or judgement, yet she leads in the polls. Her judgement on Iraq, Iran, and healthcare are rejected by almost all Americans, yet she goes up in the polls. The hatred and dislike for her by the right, and even some in the left, appears to be growing, yet she goes up in the polls. Many of us hard core Democrats have yet to meet one person that is supporting Hillary, yet she goes up in the polls. Edwards and Obama have recently had strong performances in the debates, while Hillary has been booed, yet Hillary goes up in the polls. Hillary is the only candidate that will unite the Republicans, at a time when they are falling apart, yet she goes up in the polls. Another Clinton Presidency could result in another Republican congress and Republican presidency, yet she goes up in the polls.

I take back my question. We are living in bizarro world.

BTW, if you are a Hillary supporter, do me a favor and don't post any polls here. They'll only help to prove my point.

[Richard Steele]

A yup. nm

[rucky]

1. Yes. n/t

[rox63]

2. I can't figure it out either

I'm definitely not a Hillary-supporter.Maybe it's a combination of name recognition and nostalgia for the relatively peaceful, prosperous years when Bill Clinton was president.

[Tesha]

Hillary provides bread and circuses, all in one package.

If elected, she'll support the corporate status
quo, keeping our cash flowing to all the right
people, but her enemies will find enough real-
and pseudo-scandals to keep everyone entertained
for her four or eight years in the office:
Bread *AND* Circuses!

Plus, she's such a poor candidate, it's doubtful
she'll get elected anyway, so Republicans *LOVE*
her as our nominee.

Tesha

[IdaBriggs]

3. Its name recognition -- same thing that got Shrub into office. nt

[HughBeaumont]

95. Same thing Dumberica has based it's decisions on throughout it's history.

BRAND.

No matter if it sucks or not.

Did we really break from the royals and their idea of birthright or not?

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. It is not a bizarro world. She has already been annointed the candidate, didn't you get the memo?

Caucuses and primaries are irrelevant: Party leadership has made its choice and that's that. Everything between now and the national convention is simply bread and circuses.

[acmavm]

32. That's it exactly. The media's declared her the winner and they

are more than capable of skewing any polls that they take to show that they're right. I don't know anyone who's for her, but then I live in Omaha, Nebraska.

[Evergreen Emerald]

5. "not one supporter can explain why she is better than the other candidates"

Where have you been? Her supporters have been out in force the ton of reasons why she stands above the rest.

I do believe we are in Alice-In-Wonderland where right is wrong, and up is down and Bush can successfully label himself as a Christian. Where touting war is good and touting peace gets you fired. Where liberals spew the right-wing talking points as if they are truth.

[Apollo11]

7. Sorry - what was the reason again?

Something about "touting peace"?

Are we talkin' 'bout the same Hillary Clinton? :eyes:

[Evergreen Emerald]

27. Dearest Apollo11

If you are truly interested in Clinton's views and the difference between the candidates you can find out. There is unlimited information. My guess is that, like lots of people on this board, you are not interested in the reality of Clinton's positions. You just want to flame. Likely you have have preconceived notions based on right-wing propaganda, and superficial review of Clinton's achievements. Those who are so vitriolic in their hatred of Clinton twist everything she does in an effort to support their hatred.

Have a nice day.

[Dawgs]

64. So, she didn't trust Bush when she voted for his war?

Or, she didn't actually vote for the Iraq war?

PLEASE explain where I am wrong in one of the two questions above.

[Moochy]

78. LEAVE HILARY ALONE!

[The Wielding Truth]

118. haha. She's not Britney. We need to hold her accountable,

just like any other politician. If we don't hold them accountable now when will we?

[bvar22]

119. Once again,

A Hillary supporter is unable to provide ANY Issues as a reason to support Hillary.
I believe this post supports the OP's position.


Cheers

[Zodiak]

125. Still no answer eh? n/t

[Lerkfish]

129. I guess the answer is we're republicans for not liking her right-leaning policies

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3572354&mesg_id=3572354

[Lerkfish]

128. no, actually, the funny thing is, its a rare thing for a Clinton supporter to actually

discuss her policies. when asked, we're told to do our own research. If she's your candidate, you should be able to converse on where she stands.

right?

but I often ask questions about her policy that are never answered.

Here's one:

How does labeling the Iran army a terrorist organization promote a better diplomatic relationship?

[Evergreen Emerald]

133. It is actually that your demeanor is so ugly and confrontational

that I do not feel like giving you anything. Perhaps it isn't me, perhaps it is you.

[Lerkfish]

134. and yet you never answer the question, right?

instead you just slander me.

:shrug:

[Evergreen Emerald]

135. exactly

Because you know the answer and are just picking a fight and being confrontational. I am not going to take your bate.

[Lerkfish]

137. its not picking a fight to point out severe flaws in your candidate's foreign policy strategy

it is, however, cowardice to avoid the question.

[Lerkfish]

127. you should follow this link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3572354&mesg_id=3572354

the definition of Irony: Clinton supporters accusing you of being republican for not supporting her

rightist policies.

[Apollo11]

6. A lot has to do with the methodology of the polls

Calling random numbers and talking to people with fixed phones who are home during the day.

[PatSeg]

96. I've been suspicious of polls for a number of years now

I don't answer my home phone anymore and I find few people who do. If I am at work and call a customer, I am often caught off guard when a live person answers. I am usually ready to leave a message on the machine. Then there are countless others who don't even have landline phones, relying solely on their cell phones.

I don't think it is possible to get an accurate poll these days without doing a demographic study of "who" actually answers their phones. Most people under thirty aren't apt to be represented and many in the 30-40 range as well.

[againes654]

113. Not to mention

that many people can't afford a phone at all.

[PatSeg]

114. Been there!

The pollsters need to come up a better way to get an accurate overview of the American people.

How about people who speak limited English? I've encountered a number of them when making phone calls.

[Freddie Stubbs]

8. "Many of us hard core Democrats have yet to meet one person that is supporting Hillary"

And yet 350,000 Americans have contributed to her campaign. That's over 1% of the population whe have given their hard-earn cash.

Go to this webstie http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/search_donor.asp and select Clinton and plug some local zip codes to find out who is supporting Hillary. There are 110 in my zip code alone:

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/search.asp?txtCID=N00000019&name=%28all%29&employ=%28any+employer%29&state=%28all%29&zip=33139&submit=OK&amt=a&sort=A

[wyldwolf]

11. the person who said that isn't a "hard core Democrat." He's a "progressive."

There is a MAJOR difference.

[Apollo11]

13. But didn't Hillary tell us that she is also a "progressive"?

"I prefer the word "progressive," which has a real American meaning, going back to the progressive era at the beginning of the 20th century. I consider myself a modern progressive, someone who believes strongly in individual rights and freedoms, who believes that we are better as a society when we're working together and when we find ways to help those who may not have all the advantages in life get the tools they need to lead a more productive life for themselves and their families. So I consider myself a proud modern American progressive, and I think that's the kind of philosophy and practice that we need to bring back to American politics."

Hillary Clinton in the CNN-YouTube debate, July 23, 2007

http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2007/07/will_clinton_one_day_run_from.html

Here's a tip: if you want to be Hillary's cheerleader-in-chief, you might want to try paying attention to what your candidate is saying.

[wyldwolf]

16. No, and anyone here who knows me knows I mark a difference between "progressives" and progressives.

[Apollo11]

20. What's the difference between wyldwolf and Evergreen Emerald?

:eyes:

[wyldwolf]

29. Ahhh.. did you have to edit your personal attacks?

[Evergreen Emerald]

33. hahahahaha

good come-back.

[Apollo11]

39. hahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha

good cackle.

[wyldwolf]

42. poor child. Did you chicken out of your personal attacks?

[Apollo11]

46. "Eat My Shorts"

[wyldwolf]

49. Do you wear shorts?

[Dawgs]

26. Whatever, many of us progressives haven't met a Hillary supporter either.

You can call me whatever you want. It doesn't change what I know.

[wyldwolf]

34. that's because you hang out with other "progressives." You're in Georgia?

here ya go. Get social,

http://www.georgiaforhillary.com/ (sponsoring an Atlantans for Hillary meeting at Manuel's Tavern.)

http://www.democrats.org/page/group/GeorgiaforHillaryClinton

http://johnkerry.meetup.com/221/ (hey! North of Atlanta (Cobb, Cherokee, etc) for Hillary - 94 members!)

[Dawgs]

43. Who said I only talk to Georgia Democrats?

I lived in Ohio my whole life. I know Democrats from all over the Ohio/Pennsylvania area and they are scared to death of Hillary getting the nomination. Again, not for any other candidate, only Hillary.

[wyldwolf]

50. No one. Why do you ask?

[Dawgs]

55. Bullshit. You did? And, I got another question for her.

Why do I have to search out Hillary supporters? If she is so popular in Georgia, and elsewhere, I should see them everywhere. I don't have to do that with the other candidates. I find, and meet them, all over the place; and I'm not looking for them.

I've seen one bumper sticker for Hillary. I've seen many more for Obama and Edwards. Shit, I've even seen three bumper stickers for Ron Paul. Certainly she is more popular than Ron Paul.

[wyldwolf]

56. Bullshit. I asked it you were in Georgia. Then I gave Hillary organization in GA

See, you can't meet Hillary supporters if you don't get out.

[Dawgs]

61. So, I have to search out Hillary supporters to meet them?

Thanks for proving my point.

[wyldwolf]

66. unless you'd rather do a street poll everywhere you go. But you don't like polls...

[Dawgs]

14. Uh, 350,000 (Obama's numbers, not Hillary's) is not 1% of population.

1% of the population is 3,000,000, not 300,000.

And two, your post doesn't change the fact that I have met many people supporting other Democrats, but not one supporting Hillary.

[ProudDad]

107. Ah, you mean like yesterday

when she snuck into my town unannounced,

proceeded to a private home in a gated "community" of rich fucks in the Northeast side of town,

sucked up a quarter million from her corporate capitalist masters and

slunk out of town again without a trace?


That kind of "individual contribution"???


That's the Hillary way...

[Tesha]

123. Check your math: that's 0.1%, not 1%. (NT)

[MadHound]

9. Welcome to the two party/same corporate master system of government

We the people actually have very little voice in our government anymore, it is controlled by the corporations and a few elite. Therefore, since the 'Pugs have had their name dipped in blood by Bushco, the corporations are pulling a bait and switch, pushing another corporatist flunky in Hillary Clinton. No, there is no good reason to vote for her, but she is going to be pushed by the corporate MSM, funded with corporate lucre, and promoted by the corporate controlled Democratic party.

This is just another version of the good cop/bad cop game that has been played for years and decades. Sad really, what we need is to take corporate money and influence out of our government, and that can be done via publicly funded elections. However until that is made law, we're stuck with these two parties, that is unless you go Green(which actually might happen in significant enough numbers this year to make a huge difference and send a loud message.)

[Virginia Dare]

53. If significant numbers go Green and send a loud message..

it will be the same message that those that supported Nader sent. That accomplished exactly what? I'm sorry, but all of that third party nonsense is a pipe dream on a national scale. If you want to make a difference, get involved in the grass roots of the Democratic party and work to make the change there.

[MadHound]

98. And what good, exactly, has grass roots done?

I've been working grassroots for years and decades now, and all I've got to show for it is a Democratic party that has moved increasingly to the right and become ever more corporate controlled. Hell, let's look at last year, when the grassroots turned out in droves to put Dems into the majority position. What did that accomplish? Did it end the war, as all the grassroots folks wanted? No, and in fact now our leading candidates are sounding more and more like they're going to keep the war going. Did all our work last fall put a check on Bushboy's rampage, like we were expecting? No, the Dems rolled over and pissed on themselves like frightened dogs. At this point in time, after thirty plus years of experience and disappointment, all that I can see grassroots work doing is to keep the people busy working at something they think is menaningful, and while they're busy, the corporations come in and take control. It is a chimera, a meaningless charade designed to keep the masses placated. I'm not the the only one who feels this way, some of the leading historians and thinkers of our time, Zinn, Chomsky, etc. believe the same thing.

As far as third parties being ineffective, that's bull. Go read your history. FDR was facing a stiff third party challenge from the Socialist during his first re-election bid. So what did he do? He went and nicked a couple of planks from the Socialists and made them his own. Good thing too, otherwise we wouldn't have Social Security or Unemployment Insurance. Third parties even rise up and become a major party, witness the party of Lincoln, who rose up and replaced the Whigs, all within a six year time span. Third parties do indeed promote positive changes in our country, something that the current Democratic party seems either unwilling or unable to do.

How much more are you willing to take? How many more dead innocents are you willing to tolerate? You know one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting a different result every single time. I'm through with that sort of insanity, all it has accomplished is to give us a two party/same corporate master system of government. I want real change this time, and frankly if that means abandoning the Democratic party at some point, so be it. Kucinich is about the only thing that is tying me to the party at this moment, and he and the others will most likely be run off the road by a corporately corrupt Clinton campaign. Sorry, I went through the first Clinton, and while he was better than Bush, frankly my dog would do better than Bush, so that's just not saying much.

Go knock yourself out on grassroots work, keep yourself deluded into thinking that you're doing something meaningful, hell I was there for years. But sooner or later you're going to wake up and realize that you've been had, that all that fine work you've done has simply furthered another war mongering, two faced, corporate whore who doesn't give a damn about you, the party or the American people, just those corporations that donated the big bucks. Maybe then you'll wake up, I certainly hope so.

[CanonRay]

10. I can't figure it out, either.

I know exactly one person in our county that is a Hillary supporter. One. And this is a conservative county. Where are these numbers coming from?

[ProudDad]

109. Pollsters can easily manipulate the final result of a poll if they wish...

this crap means nothing in terms of actual support among human beings...

but as hillary's good friend george said, "it does catapult the propaganda"...

[EV_Ares]

12. Does it all come around to the media as with most other matters.

Is the media so strong now that they can frame anything and get what they want. Look at the Iraq war, they joined the drumbeat for it. Look at Iran now, they are basically creating the framework to let Bush get it. Look at how they handled the last two presidential elections and they got what they wanted there.

The only thing I can see is if you watch how the media goes, the public seems to go. Can only base that on what the MSM puts out there and still more of the general population reads that stuff instead of all the media reports we do, blogs, european press, a conglomeration of news sources. As a result, you will get opinion polls looking like this.

This is why it is so important that this corporate media be broken up and put back into independent ownership like it used to be instead of being owned by General Electric, Clear Water, etc. What can you expect to get from them when they are told how to conduct their news stories and their owners are beholden to the republican party.

[wyldwolf]

15. No, we're just hanging out in one - an online political forum

BTW, if you are a Hillary supporter, do me a favor and don't post any polls here. They'll only help to prove my point.

In other words, let you spout your fantasy-driven truthiness and don't post any polls that will contradict your blissful ignorance?

[Dawgs]

18. It's driving you crazy, isn't it? You want to post a poll so bad that you can't stand it.

My point is that I almost never see you, or SaveElmer, or one of the other 10 Hillary supporters on DU post anything but polls as reason to support Hillary.

Go ahead and try if you can.

[wyldwolf]

22. It's rather amusing. You're like a 15th century Monk asking for proof the world is round...

...by saying one can't use maps to do it.

Hey, why won't you "progressives" EVER post proof of any of your claims, like "Hillary is the only candidate that will unite the Republicans."

Why? Because it seems you reject evidence in favor of "what's in your heart."

[Dawgs]

35. Again, I don't necessarily disagree with the polls.

I do know that she is hated and despised by the right. They will unite to make sure she does not win. And, in my opinion, that is not what we will see if another candidate is nominated.

I do know that I haven't met anyone who will support her. I have met many people that will support other candidates.

I also know that the right is already starting to go after her. I'm not sure we would see that this early if it wasn't Hillary.

[wyldwolf]

41. you're limited by your social circles, then.

and you don't KNOW the right will unite to make sure she does not win. You simply don't know that. There is no evidence of it.

[Dawgs]

48. You're right. The right doesn't hate Hillary. They love her.

She's changing their minds with her superior campaigning. Shit, by November 2008 she might actually win with 80%+ of the vote.

Wow!! I thought I was living in bizarro world.

[wyldwolf]

52. Nope, I didn't say that. You're avoiding what I DID say, though.

You simply have NO evidence to support your claims.

[Dawgs]

57. "No evidence", or do you mean 'no poll'?

I live and observe in the real world. If you can't see that she is the most despised Democrat then you haven't been paying attention, and that's not my fault.

[wyldwolf]

69. no, I mean "no evidence." You basing you statements completely on what you observe...

...then creating "facts" to reconcile your observations.

It's called "anecdotal" evidence - an informal account of evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay. The term is often used in contrast to scientific evidence... Misuse of anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy and is sometimes informally referred to as the "person who" fallacy ("I know a person who..."; "I know of a case where..." etc.

[Moochy]

79. He gets a scooby snack for each poll he posts

[wyldwolf]

105. Another flat earth progressive: No one you know thinks the earth is round...

...get that science outta here!

[Moochy]

121. Give that man a scooby snack!

Besides what has Science ever brought us?

[riona]

17. MSM+Bill=$

[TwilightZone]

19. I believe it's called denial.

We see what we want to see. You see no support, yet according to Gallup, her approval rating is 81% among Democrats and 80% among liberal Democrats.

"The hatred and dislike for her...appears to be growing."

Her negatives have been dropping pretty steadily since April. Additionally, Gallup says that her approval rating among conservatives is 28%, which is about 27% higher than I would have expected, and 45% with Independents. Both are significantly higher than DU conventional wisdom would seem to indicate.

"Hillary is the only candidate that will unite the Republicans"

Yes, if one of the other candidates wins the nomination, I'm sure that the Republicans will all just stay home.

Disclaimer: I'm undecided on a candidate at the moment, so I guess it's ok if I post poll info.

[Dawgs]

24. I never said that the polls were wrong. I just don't understand it.

And, her hatred is as strong as ever. Maybe you haven't been seeing the billboards in my hometown that say "Stop Hillary Now", or the numerous posts on DU that attack her for her war-mongering positions, or my story of when I went to a hockey game and the entire place booed her when they showed her picture.

"Yes, if one of the other candidates wins the nomination, I'm sure that the Republicans will all just stay home."

Not all, but many will if it's a choice between Rudy and Edwards/Obama/Gore. They will all vote if it's Hillary.

[TwilightZone]

30. "my hometown" "numerous posts on DU" "my story"

Your own personal worldview and the general population at DU are not indicative of the country at large.

I find it amazing that so many people base their understanding of politics based on their own small world. If DU was even remotely representative of reality, Dennis Kucinich or Wes Clark would be president.

[Dawgs]

37. Like I said. I must be living in bizarro world.

I know many Democrats in the north and the south, and they are all scared of Hillary getting the nomination.

[William769]

21. Maybe you are.

Speaking for myself, I'm walking on sunshine.

[wyldwolf]

25. ..and don't it feel good! Hey! Alright now...

[nolabels]

139. The cardboard signs seem to out number the people by at least 2 to 1

Those signs are not that inexpensive either. What that indicates not sure but it is something to notice :shrug:

[Lost4words]

23. I never thought I would see my fellow countrymen sell out the middle class so much

for nothing more than short term profit. They have successfully taken my ability to earn any kind of living for my family. They have subverted our democracy, for nothing more than Short term dollars.

The sad thing is its not going to change no matter who gets elected. It took the race riots of 68 to show the country Black citizens were not going to take it anymore. And it brought the issues to the forefront.

More and more I feel that if we arent ready to spill our blood in the streets we will have no ability to complain. Revolution is an American birthright and yes I am going to say this line I hate so much but is truly applicable in this case, Freedom is not Free! And Democracy is not a spectator sport.

The NeoCons will start a war with Iran in order to maintain control of our system of Government and to seize more power and wealth. I truly believe this will happen I hope to God I am wrong.

8643

[groovedaddy]

31. Greed rules - literally

The greed mongers have taken over and they are on a mission: getting as much as they can.
They don't give a shit about anything or anyone else.

[Lost4words]

51. Its True. I cant think of anything less American.

These greedbots are not our countrymen/women and should be out sourced, they do not have human values.

They are less than human and the sooner we start to think like this the easier it will all be.

the neocons wanted/needed to create an enemy for all of us to dispise, they have succeded but the middle east is not my enemy, it's those who wish to destroy our nation that I would like to see vanquished.
Its those who feel profit justifies the action and killing thousands means nothing to these devils.

It makes me ashamed. 8643

[groovedaddy]

65. This whole issue needs to be put before our society and laid

firmly at the doorstep of the g.o.p.
Yes, there are some greedy Dems too BUT the g.o.p. has institutionalized greed and see absolutely nothing wrong with it.
I think you're right that most Americans certainly don't approve of this state of affairs - if they're aware of it.

[AzDar]

28. She has been chosen. Do not question it. Why do you hate America?

:rofl: (due to the fact that we are about to get stuck with another candidate selected FOR us by the Republican-loving/connected MSM , so that we are assured another 4 + years of nuttery, incompetence, and WAR, Baby!)

[Perry Logan]

36. The behavior of the anti-Hillarites is my main reason.

The people who most harshly criticize Hillary have totally grossed me out. They have essentially destroyed any chance their candidates had. Good, work, y'all.

[Dawgs]

40. Are you serious? I mean are you seriously supporting a candidate because of what others think?

That's just fucked up...and scary...and sad.

But, my guess is that you are probably supporting her becuase you really want Bill back in the White House. No?

[Lost4words]

102. Dont you think Hill and Bill had something to do with it?

corporate shills the both of them.
:puke:

[Catchawave]

38. Dec '03....Dean 42% Kerry 12%

Polls Schmolls :D

[Dawgs]

44. Thanks, but Dean made sense.

[wyldwolf]

47. Dec '03....Hillary Rodham Clinton 41% Howard Dean 9%

Wait...

Dec. '03... Howard Dean 18% Wes Clark 14% ...

Here's my link:

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04dem.htm

[Catchawave]

58. Wow, check out the Dec 03 Time/Cnn poll

Not exactly matching my numbers, but Dean was well ahead of the pack in the 50's.

I guess it's all in what polls we look at, they were so accurate back then too :D

Sorry, didn't have a link for my numbers, just heard it on MSNBC this morning during a discussion about poll numbers before a vote's been cast.

[wyldwolf]

71. the difference now is all the polls are saying virtually the same thing

[antigop]

45. Marketing 101: "we often know brands simply because advertisers want us to."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1653659,00.html

>>
It's not a bad strategy, considering how consumers respond to names that they recognize. A flurry of new research is shedding light on people's tendency--when presented with a known object and an unknown one--to assign more value to the thing they've heard of, even if they don't know anything else about it. It's easy to imagine the evolutionary roots of a go-with-what-you-know principle--avoiding poisonous plants, say--but these mental shortcuts suit certain modern problems as well. For example, studies have shown that people are able to pick which of two foreign cities is larger or who will win Wimbledon just by employing the assumption that if a name is recognized, it's likely to be more important.

Enter the world of marketing. The power of name recognition helps explain the multibillion-dollar business of plastering brand names on everything from ballpoint pens to NASCAR racers as well as the thriving cottage industry of reviving brands that have fallen out of mainstream use, like Ovaltine chocolate malt and Westinghouse televisions. "We tend to believe, If I've heard of before, it's probably because it's popular, and popular things are good," says Dan Goldstein, an assistant professor of marketing at London Business School.
...
A study published last year looked at how we choose an airline. Researchers at Germany's University of Cologne asked participants to pick between two carriers--one familiar and one unknown. Predictably, an overwhelming number chose the airline they recognized. What was surprising was that many stuck with it even as the researchers gave negative cues about its safety. With three troubling bits of information--like past accidents--67% of study participants remained loyal to the airline they knew.
>>

There's a reason Time Magazine referred to the Clinton "brand".

[zulchzulu]

54. Don't worry...

...when Clinton places third or fourth in Iowa, it will be a different story.

If we believe the "frontrunner" hype, then I'd plan a trip to the President Edmund Muskie Presidential Library or perhaps a journey to the President Phil Gramm Presidential Library as well. Make sure to watch President Gephardt this week...

You catch my drift.

[Dawgs]

59. I sure hope so. BTW, I love your signature image. Obama/Feingold or Gore/Obama is my pick for 08.

[William769]

60. And if you believe your picture in your sig line

I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'll sell you.

[Dawgs]

62. Boy, that's showing a lot of class. Another reason I don't understand why her support rises.

Her supporters act like sixth graders.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

86. Not to mention the Pat Robertson Presidential Library

(He won the Iowa Republican caucuses in 1988) or the Jesse Jackson Presidential Library (he won Michigan in 1988).

[Bitwit1234]

63. Isn't it a shame that even so called "democrats"

are as jealous of Hillary and her substantical lead over their candidate. Is this they type of person who sneaks into the democrat party. Because they aren't winning they trash the opponent. True republican posing as a democrat.

[Dawgs]

68. Great, another 'get in line' post.

And, you're wrong. I don't dislike or hate Hillary. I actually think she would be an acceptable President. I will not support her in the general, but I will vote for her.

My main concern is with her chances of winning. You might want to ignore the fact that many Democrats, and all Republicans, will not vote for her. I don't.

[ShortnFiery]

87. "many Democrats, and all Republicans, will not vote for her." - but the DLC will not be denied!

The Clintonian DLC insists that it's Hillary's turn.

Therefore, these bozos are hoping against hope, that "the third time's a charm" with their illustrious "quick change artist" nominee.

Yes, we're going to have another DLC Presidential TRAIN-WRECK. :(

[againes654]

116. What you fail to understand is

MANY of us that don't support HRC/DLC is based on her stand on the Iraq war, and now her stand on the situation on Iran (not to mention her corporate connections). It has absolutely nothing to do with her lead over anyones particular candidate. I have not seen one Hillary supporter give me one single good reason to vote for her. All they ever say is one of the following.

1)look it up yourself
2)she is leading the polls (and a link to various poll)
3)she will win (no mention of how btw)
4)she is the most "electable" (a word I have come to despise)
5)she has experience (Bill)

Some of us actually believe that one should vote based on ISSUES not POLLS. Some of us believe that her and her DLC/Corporate buddies will continue many of the policies set forth by the * administration. Some of us don't want the country to continue to run the way it has the last 8 years. If that makes me a repug in your mind, it doesn't matter much to me. I know my beliefs, values, and morals, but more than that, I have my convections, and I will not lay those down for anyone.

[bvar22]

126. "...sneaks into the "democrat" party....????

Sounds like someone who grew up listening to Rush.
If you have ever registered as a Democrat, you would KNOW that our Party is the "Democratic Party", and that "Democrat Party" was coined by Frank Luntz, a conservative propagandist.


The Republicans really, really want Hillary as the nominee.
East Meat for them.

[Vidar]

67. We passed that damned looking glass quite some time ago.

[SaveElmer]

70. Yes I do...

I constantly see comments like "no Hillary supporter can explain why she would be better than the other candidates" despite the fact that we have on numerous occasions...

Or "Her judgement on Iraq, Iran, and healthcare are rejected by almost all Americans" which is simply untrue if one relies on you know...scientific methods of opinion evaluation...as opposed to the "hair on the back of my neck" approach favored by the netroots...

Or "Many of us hard core Democrats have yet to meet one person that is supporting Hillary, yet she goes up in the polls. " Yet many of us time and time again have recounted the exact opposite experiences we have...

Or "Hillary is the only candidate that will unite the Republicans, at a time when they are falling apart, yet she goes up in the polls." A case made inevitably without a shred of evidence...but when such evidence is asked for we invariably hear some version of "you Hillarites are always looking for evidence." And when evidence is provided over you objection (see OP) shows shows the exact opposite we get the "three monkeys response."

Or "Another Clinton Presidency could result in another Republican congress and Republican presidency, yet she goes up in the polls." See previous...

Yes we are in a bizarro world...but fortunately, that world only exists in virtual space...

[durrrty libby]

72. I feel like you "are living in bizarro world". Absolutely

[Dawgs]

74. So you agree. Thanks for the support.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

73. I live in Minneapolis, the bluest city of a blue state.

I live in a neighborhood that went 80% for Kerry in 2004. Nearly everyone I know through my various activities is a Democrat. I have met ONE Hillary Clinton supporter, and she talks exactly like the Hillary Clinton supporters on DU.

I see bumper stickers for Obama and Edwards fairly often, but I can't recall having seen one for Clinton.

There are ways to skew a poll for the results that you want. And who's to say that some of these pollsters aren't just pulling numbers out of their asses?

I'm reminded of the Reagan administration, when nearly every newspaper article that mentioned RR talked about how he was "the most popular president of the postwar era." Media pundits talked about his "overwhelming popularity" and "his high poll numbers."

Once he was out of office, the truth came out. Reagan's popularity poll numbers were only average and about the same as Jimmy Carter's, which seemed much more in line with reality, given that a large portion of the population couldn't stand the man.

[Dawgs]

75. According to wyldwolf you need to just ignore what you see and 'get in line'.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3574144&mesg_id=3574328

Your observations are wrong. Now keep saying over and over again, 'Hillary is popular', 'Hillary is popular', 'Hillary is popular'.

[wyldwolf]

77. According to wyldwolf, using your personal observation in a limited environment as criteria for ...

..."fact" is silly.

That's why people thought the world was flat for so long.

[Dawgs]

101. Only if you're talking about one individual.

[wyldwolf]

110. I'm talking about multiple individuals

[William769]

80. Have you seen the poll numbers for MN for the Democraric primary?

:wow:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

82. No, because I don't vote according to what other people want or

according to what I think other people want.

I vote for what I think the country needs.

[William769]

83. And thats what you should do.

I was merely pointing out, according to the polls MN wants Hillary contrary to what you said.

[Snarkturian Clone]

76. Get out of my mind!!!!!!!!!

wait for my brother, Baron...

[ShortnFiery]

81. The Corporatocracy is blatantly lying to the American People!

These pissy polls and all the celebrity hype promoting HRC, are some sick f**king LIES. :grr:

Hello?!? No matter how much you Catapult the Propaganda, there's going to have to be a SHIT-LOAD of "Diebolding" in the GE in order to force another eight years of "Clintonian Rule." :puke:

[William769]

84. Glad to see your having such a great day!

:rofl: :pals:

[Clintonista2]

85. I would take 8 years of "clintonian rule" over 8 years of

anti childrens health care, anti choice Kucinich, thanks.

[ShortnFiery]

88. Bullshit! Our founders did NOT ever intend for the creation of a Political Royal Class.

:thumbsdown:

[Clintonista2]

90. They intended for a democratic vote

If the PEOPLE don't like the clintons, the PEOPLE don't have to vote them in. Your elitism, and "I know better than everybody" attitude, is probably part of the reason that anti childrens health care, anti abortion kucinich, is third-tier material.

[ShortnFiery]

93. HRC will NOT be Queen. But you and the DLC will force the issue as the vote is split

between Edwards and Obama ... allowing "her highness" to eke out the Democratic Nomination.

All the more reason to justify RUN-OFF voting. :shrug:

OUR FOUNDERS wanted "balance of power" between the three branches. THAT nixes the concept of political royal families. It's too DAMN much Executive Power with little to NO Checks and balances.

[Clintonista2]

94. I did not say she would be "queen"

I said the PEOPLE will decide that, as the founders intended. A "royal family" is not democratically elected, thus your attempt to compare the clintons to a "royal family" fails, unless you are implying that they have/intend to steal the election.

[William769]

97. I think your circuits are fried.

At the very least your illogical thinking.

[Marrah_G]

89. What I find bizarre is the amount of "eating our own" going on lately

I'm not a support of any particular candidate, I am a supporter of them all. Things like this make me sad.

[ellacott]

91. I agree with you

People are too caught up and are losing perspective.

[ShortnFiery]

92. I never claimed Bill Clinton - I folded and voted for "the lesser evil"

But no more. This goes beyond PARTY and hits to the heart of too much Executive Branch power concentrated with POLITICAL ROYAL FAMILIES. :thumbsdown:

[Lost4words]

106. Which of the Dem candidates spoke about the stolen election/s?

Or the phony war. Or the destruction of our government from within?

Tell me which ones?

None of them, Hell, I knew what we were in for on December 12, 2000! It wasnt that hard to see.

7 years later where we??????? In a GD nightmare thats where. If you are expecting chang after 08, think again.

Without the help of the DLC the GOP couldnt have gotten this far.

[ileus]

99. She's a Clinton, they're not....see it's that simple.

Sheese, do we need any other reason. It's time for a female voice in the WH. It's time for change...

[Lost4words]

104. Hillery dosent represent change,IMHO, more of the same.

[KaptBunnyPants]

124. How is voting for the wife of the last President voting for change?

And it is time for a female President, but that doesn't mean I'd vote for President Rice, either.

[Vinca]

100. In New Hampshire, in "real" life (as opposed to "cyber" life),

I haven't run across one Hillary supporter or even seen one Hillary bumper sticker or sign. The local news shows events with people who I assume are her supporters (although lots of New Hampshire people are just political junkies and go to everything), but I'm not getting that "she's a given" vibe from anywhere. I really question the polling this year. Many people have cell phones only and they aren't polled.

[William769]

103. You should speak with "NewHampster"

She's there also and has a take different than yours.

[Vinca]

115. Maybe it's a regional thing.

I'm right next to liberal, commie, pinko, southern Vermont. LOL.

[bvar22]

130. Or take a look at the photo in your sig line:

14 warm bodies holding up 65 Mass Produced Media Blitz Campaign signs.

Long on Media and Money.
Short on real people.

[William769]

138. Wow you have xray vision?

Who would have known.

[LanternWaste]

108. I do.

"Does anyone else feel like they are living in bizarro world?"

I do. I thought as a progressive community we would tolerate the choices of each other, but in this primary campaign season, it's been less honest critique and analysis, and more back-handed compliments, denigrations and pissing contests. Sometimes, I'm tempted to pass out rulers so everyone can measure themselves and proclaim, "Mine is the biggest! So support my candidate!"

I suppose when I actually do finally decide on a candidate to support, I'll make a few posts about why I believe he/she is the best candidate. However, if I actually begin an OP by pissing on another candidate (or that candidate's supporters), I'll hopefully come to the realization soon afterwards that I'm neither advertising myself or the candidate I support to the best of my ability-- indeed, that I'm actually advertising the basest and most ugly parts of who I am.

But that's just me...

[ProudDad]

111. I can't wait to see how the hillbots are going to respond

to her defeat in the '08 election.

hillary's the ONLY democrat candidate who can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

112. Thank you.

And we're going to LOSE down ticket seats in battleground states because her presence will motivate the fundie herd to get out and vote.

[The Backlash Cometh]

117. Hillary supporter's answer:

They keep showing the same photo of a group of Hillary fans carrying three signs to the person.

Well, I guess we've been told.

[wyldwolf]

120. I missed that photo. Share the link with me.

[BlueIris]

122. No; only the World of Rigged Voting, Whore-Like "Candidates" and

fake "Democrats." 'S okay, they're about to get what's coming to them.

[robinlynne]

131. I don't know if I trust polls. Remember how they change them every election night at 2 in

in the morning? They constantly change the polls to reflect what they want them to say.

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[calteacherguy]

136. Your first sentence is hogwash and bizzare.

Why bother to continue reading such tripe? Perhaps you should read more to find out why she is so popular.