What Can "Primary Colors" Tell Us About Hillary '08?

[wyldwolf]

Kathy Bates, meanwhile, plays the raucous yet fragile Libby Holden, the Stantons' political cohort who is destroyed by learning how willing her old friends are to play dirty. After a stroke forces Stanton's main competition out of the race, he finds himself facing even stiffer competition from Fred Picker (Larry Hagman, in a superb pro's performance), the old political hand who steps in. When Holden uncovers a potential bombshell about Picker, she turns it over to the Stantons, trusting them to do the right thing—not understanding that, in politics, the right thing is often the expedient thing.

Liberals (and I speak as one) have an unfortunate tendency to confuse compromise with corruption, to mistake the ballot box for the confessional and assume the choice made therein should leave our souls clean. (That's why so many of us have gone off the deep end and voted for Nader.) The challenge the Clintons have always posed to liberals is the challenge of growing up and realizing how things get done. It's the inability to accept the compromises of politics that strands Libby Holden in her Neverland.

Nichols seems to disapprove of the Stantons' ability to play in that dirty a game. Would he feel the same way now, given what happened to John Kerry, who chose to stay above the fray in the Swift Boat smear? Would Nichols consider it dirty politics if Kerry had deigned to fight back?

Remember the line about Ginger Rogers doing everything Fred Astaire did, but backwards and in high heels? It's not true, but it makes a point. God only knows what smears are being prepared against Hillary Clinton. But it must be obvious to the goons readying those attacks that she's not just going to take them. The coiled energy of Thompson's Susan Stanton, that palpable resentment at having to downplay her own intelligence, suggests what might be unleashed in a Hillary Clinton no longer in the supporting role of candidate's wife. Not only is she capable of fighting back—she can do it in heels.

http://www.slate.com/id/2173284/nav/tap3/

[cd3dem]

1. a lot of women feel like they are dancing backwards in heels every day....

Bill was on the Today show this morning... asked about the stats on how people place her #1 in polls on the issues but she is #4 in the likeability poll... his response as always was "right on"!!! Hillary has been the target of the swift boaters for 15 years... and she has stood up to them... she knows how to handle it... some people make their judgments based on these attacks... when people get to know her from her... they will like her... as her numbers are climbing to prove it!

the other candidates have not received the negative attacks like Hillary yet... who ever is the nominee... they WILL get attacked... the difference is... Hillary has "experience" fighting it...

and I love the Ginger Rogers dancing backwards in heels line... a lot of women feel like they are dancing backwards in heels every day....

[Tellurian]

2. I saw the interview too-

I'm always amazed at Lauer's carefully couched edgy questions.. He must have been a fisherman in another life, he's so good at baiting the hook.:)

BC brought out a few points we didn't know about. Like the Navy training in Infantry tactics (which I believe could be a first or hasn't been done since WWII) And the Security question posed by Lauer. Lauer was thinking about security issues in Iraq while BC was talking about security issues of our troops. Where they are stretched so thin in Iraq, they are stretched even thinner here. I think this was a major observation too quickly dismissed by the media especially when National Guard troops are supposed to be domestic for protection of our country in times of disaster.

As usual BC had all the right answers and I haven't a doubt, so does Hillary.

[Ron Green]

3. Her ability to fight back has become less relevant than the weakness of her

positions. It's just sad that the great masses of people can't understand this.

[wyldwolf]

4. The weakness of her positions? Do tell...

[Ron Green]

5. Well, you know, on the Iraq war, on war in general, on single-payer health care,

on corporate involvement in government, on renewable energy, on sustainability in general . . .

Stuff like that.

[wyldwolf]

6. aside from your opinion, how are those positions "weak" or different than, say...

...Barack Obama's?

And since we've entered this territory, what are Hillary's positions on those issues?

[Ron Green]

7. I'm not an expert on her positions, but I know they're not as strong as those of

Dennis Kucinich, for example, in the areas I listed. Or are they? Does she support not-for-profit health care? How about a cabinet position and department organized around peaceful principles rather than warlike ones? Do you think she'll speak out against the WTO? Does she have strength in these important areas, or are her positions weak?

[wyldwolf]

8. well, you just said they were "weak," so you must have a reason for doing so...

What makes Kucinich's positions in the areas you mentioned stronger? Have the been tested? You know for certain not-for-profit health care is better than for-profit? If so, you're obviously an expert - so tell us why.

Does she support a cabinet position and department organized around peaceful principles rather than warlike ones? As far as I know, she does not advocate abolishing the State Department. :shrug:

The WTO? I dunno. Why is that an issue? If you're not an expert, I don't believe I'll get an expert response.

[Ron Green]

10. What the hell are they, then? Why aren't her positions strongly stated in the media?

Why can't people even on this website enumerate them? Kucinich's positions are clear, and are long overdue in the public discourse. If Ms. Clinton's value is primarily in being able to "fight back" against her attackers, I consider that far less important than clearly and strongly-stated positions.

Edit: Recall in "Primary Colors" when Jack Stanton finally decided to go on the attack against Senator Harris. In his speech at the Florida retirement home (wearing a yarmulke) he made the most vague non-statements about Harris' views on the Middle East and support for Israel. Again on the "Schmooze for Jews" talk show, his attack posture (after Harris called in) was full of dodging and twisting. This is what happens when people run the horse race rather than clearly enumerate strong positions, and this is what I have against Ms. Clinton's style of politics.

[wyldwolf]

11. why are you asking me? You're the one stating they're "weak" so you have to know them

:shrug:

[Ron Green]

14. If they were strong, I believe I would have heard about them by now.

[LanternWaste]

9. Or, at the very least,

Or, at the very least, merely your own interpretations of perceived weaknesses in her positions...

[cd3dem]

12. Hillary is very clear to me on her positions...

She knows what's going on and she articulates well her thoughts... she knows enough about things not to make premature commitments as well... people love to hijack Hillary threads and speak flakey dribble... they are republican stooges...

I really like what you say... and I had to read it a few times and each time I do... I see something else I like... thanks... I was just about to decide to not log on here again b/c of all the negative haters that post...

the line I am admiring this time is:

"The challenge the Clintons have always posed to liberals is the challenge of growing up and realizing how things get done."

I hear this sentiment all the time when talking to independent voters (not Independence Party).

[cd3dem]

13. if you missed Bill on Today

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20593850/

[Drunken Irishman]

15. I'll just say this, I love Primary Colors.

It's one of my favorite movies and Kathy Bates is an amazing actor.

[rinsd]

16. I liked the book a bit better.

I was kind of miffed they cut out Mrs. Stanton's affair with Henry Burton.

But Kathy Bates is marvelous as the "Dustbuster"