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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:10 PM
Original message
Another Disaster Waiting for Democrats?
Why is this self-fulfilling prophecy right on track with the string of shots to the foot by the Democrats over the last decade? The polls don’t lie. Yes, Clinton holds a lead in the category of potential Democratic primary voters, but where does she stand with the majority who live in the political center? She has the highest unfavorable rating (54 percent) of any candidate in the race, in either party, and only a 45 percent approval rating, according to Rasmussen Reports. She is viewed as divisive and partisan, and more people want to vote against her than for her. So why will they nominate her? Although high numbers of intellectuals and educated citizens tend to lean to the donkey, Democrats are politically stupid. Perhaps they are too idealistic and unrealistic in elections. Sometimes, you have to nominate someone who can win.

The funny thing is that this time the Democrats could have their cake and eat it too. Obama and Clinton are ideologically similar, except that Obama has favorable and unfavorable ratings of 47 and 45 percent, respectively. Obama is possibly viewed this way because he is a gifted orator who paints a picture of a fresh face who wants to change the way politics work in America. It could be because his last name isn’t Clinton, a sound which makes even some moderates cringe. But the reason is irrelevant. The Democrats could nominate him, a candidate who would, according to most polls, fare better in a general election match-up against a Republican nominee, while representing Democratic ideals. But they won’t.

In 2000, they nominated Al Gore, but ran a campaign that left it close enough for a judge to decide. In 2004, they nominated John “Anybody but Bush” Kerry, based on, I can only assume, some kind of congressional raffle prize. Now in 2008, with a Democratic Congress, and endless possibilities for the future to advance causes like universal health care, they will nominate Hillary Clinton. She will lose in the general election. If, by some miracle, the Republicans nominate a self-destructive politician like Mitt Romney and Clinton wins, the animosity towards her will cause her to be ridden harder than Secretariat. Her every mistake will be pointed out and Congress will shift back to the Republicans, assuring that nothing will get done in her tenure and that another woman won’t be elected for 50 years.

But Democrats will know their mistake long before any of this. Once the Democratic National Convention rolls around and the polls show Rudy Giuliani or Fred Thompson in front, Obama will coolly strut out onto the dais and make a rousing, inspiring and heart-felt speech that will make everyone in the room teary-eyed and proud to be an American. When he is done talking, Hillary will walk out and speak, and Democrats will lower their Clinton signs and look down at the floor, realizing that, once again, they have handed the baton off to the wrong runner.

http://www.flathatnews.com/opinions/1013/hillary-a-disaster-for-dems?commented=1#c000617
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. here is an editorial about this article.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. He is right
about the 2004 speech. I was gobsmacked it was so wonderful.
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plusfiftyfive Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
58. Thanks for that link!
I really appreciate knowing more about Obama, and watching that video clip is an easy way to learn from someone who has known him for 20 yrs or so.

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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yep. My question is, why do we keep doing this? nt
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. It's not "us" -- Democrats don't want her to win, the media, DLC'ers, and Rethugs want her in..




Hell, they're banking on it!!!
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I'm depressed. We need to take back our party. nt
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. With Obama, we will take AMERICA back!
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
37. take "back" our party? From who?
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plusfiftyfive Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
60. From the media
Edited on Sun Sep-02-07 03:03 PM by plusfiftyfive
Which hypes every poll as though it's the very last poll before primary election day. Hardly anyone but the political activists like us is paying much attention this summer. I have non-activist liberal friends who didn't know who Obama was 6 months ago. They have hardly had the time that Chris Matthews and TIm Russert have had to look at the candidates and examine the polls.

We need main street, not Wall street to have their say.

Of course, if Hillary wins most of the primaries, and gets the nomination, I will have to vote for her, but my state is newly blue, anyway.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. the media doesn't have our party.
:shrug:
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
50. I'm not getting the logic here. If the REpublicans hate her why would they want her
to win? I don't support her but I am just mystified at the rationale I read that says the Republicans will rally their base as never before in their hatred if Hillary gets the nom. In the same breath, they say the Republicans WANT her to win.

My head just spins. Can you explain this logic to me?
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #50
72. They want her to win the primary elections--so they can against her in the general election in '08!
Edited on Tue Sep-04-07 12:38 PM by flpoljunkie
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
65. Then why is she leading
handily among Democrats?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. That last paragraph made my heart sink, because I'm really afraid
that's what's going to happen if Obama is not the nominee.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. That's why we need to work as hard as we can to help Obama become the nominee, so that
Bill Clinton is the one giving the nice speech before our candidate Barack Obama accepts the nomination.
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Hope springs eternal Donating Member (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
31. Agreed
But I really was rattled by his whole "Invade Pakistan" speech. No amount of charisma is enough to get me to vote for a man whose going to have me in Army fatigues.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #31
53. Perhaps this will shed some light.
He was talking about his expectation that Pakistan cooperate in capturing bin Laden, which seems only fair IMO since we rent the Pakistan army to the tune of $100 million a month. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/US_renting_Pak_army_for__100_million_a_month/articleshow/2202810.cms

When asked if he would attack a hard target confirmed as bin Laden, he said if Musharraf didn't act - he would.

He wasn't talking about invading Pakistan.

I think the majority of Americans are offended that bin Laden has escaped unscathed. In my opinion, this was a brilliant political move on Obama's part.

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
33. It will never happen!
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
48. No we don't. I won't. Don't like Obama. Period.
Sorry.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hill and O' are both wrong choices. Edwards RRRAWWWXXXXXX!!!!!
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. Obama certainly isn't the ANSWER to the HRC dilemma.
Still waiting for the long shot to make HIS move on the field.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:23 PM
Original message
Obama is the answer to America's current problems.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Obama is the answer to America's current problems.
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Unfortunately, Obama is NOT.........NOW.
Perhaps in future elections.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Why not now? Please, I would love to know.
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Inexperience.
Obama has ALREADY made several colossal blunders due to lack of experience.
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historian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #26
57. Oh please
Anything any politician says makes him a genius after 8 years of this babbling idiot in the white house
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
62. Does Hillary and Edwards have more experience as President? NO.
Which blunders, or are you just repeating a Hillary talking point hoping it sticks?
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BadgerLaw2010 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
44. He really is too raw, and worse, he's come off that way.
If your experience and judgement are suspect, you'd better actually be dominant in those fields when they come up. Put politely, Obama...wasn't.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #44
63. How is Obama's judgement suspect?
Are you talking about his judgement to not go into war?
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. all hail the new messiah, or as you said the other day "we must trust him" :-) nt
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #14
34. Obama is going to get the biggest ass kickin of his life..
He is a Republican Corporate Shill!
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. ...and his supporters will stand around wide eyed and clueless, wondering why
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #40
46. You're talking about normal people..
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dugggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. Edwards is the most electable, Obama & HRC will have a tough time
Obama has two strikes against him, one he is black,
and two his middle name is Hussein. Let's face the stark
naked truth, prejudice against blacks is not dead amongst
whites over age of 40. And forget about any one with muslim
background & blood, post 911. It is unfortunate but true.

Edwards will score well in the south both amongst blacks
and whites. I am just stating stark reality, even though I
favor Hillary Clinton because how great the Bill Clinton
era was. Peace AND prosperity ruled.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. The stark reality is......

..you sound like you're against Senator Obama simply because you ASSume how others will vote dugggy.

How sad to live your life according to what others say or think.

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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
51. Isn't that exactly
what the OP and many others here are saying about Clinton? They won't vote for her because they ASSume how others will vote, and that she can't win?

How sad to live your life according to what others say or think.
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Middle finga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. What do you think the over 40 whites are afraid of by having the
Harvard educated, multi-cultural, multi-racial Obama as the chief executive of this nation? The ones that are that narrow minded the hell with them, they are Conservatives anyway go for the under 40 and the minorities. There was only a 60% turnout in 04, there's millions of potential voters that he can go after with the right message.
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Hope springs eternal Donating Member (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. As a Bi-racial person
We are sadly seen as being exclusivley Black. So, we will have a Black president in Obama. But yes, I do feel he could reel in votes. However, how does he play to Latinos and the middle class? What the heck is he going to do about the Iraq war?
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
68. Mr. "I'll force you to go to the doctor" is electable, right -
You just keep telling yourself that dear.
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. Geez. Obviously one guy's opinion, yet short memory and limited focus makes for poor
political commentary.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. When I was a sophomore in college like Jared Calfee
When I was a sophomore in college like Jared Calfee (the author of this little screed) I knew everything about how the world worked too. Unfortunately I've become a lot more stupid over the years since then.
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avrdream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. Oh Jeez, ANOTHER one of these threads!?
When are we all going to just give up and admit that we aren't going to change each others' minds on who we are voting for in the primary?

I have to go SEARCHING for decent threads anymore.
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
18. It's going to be Hillary and Mitt! A choice of a * clone or a chance to make history. Go for it. n/
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. It will be Obama and any of the Republican clowns.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #19
35. Obama is the media creation of a Repubican clown!
get overyourself!
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. CK, don't be the type of person the media just loves!
You know the type.

The John Q. Public who actually buys into whatever the media feeds you..

They were wrong about Big Dawg, the were wrong about the good doctor, and they'll be wrong this time too.

If you're coming to your conclusions by whatever polls you hear people like Tweety dishing out, just =STOP= and ask yourself why the media's polls are so far off from any actual live event polling (actual DEMOCRATIC events) and why they barely mention those results.

I can't say who will win the GOP nod because I don't follow those arse-holes all that closely.. but I do know that REAL Democrats are concerned about nominating a candidate who is.....

............. ELECTABLE.

And the results from every live event to date are complete opposites of anything you'll hear in the MSM.

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BadgerLaw2010 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #18
43. Please be Mitt. Gogo 35% of the vote due to "base" issues.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. The bedazzled back Obama, the besotted back Edwards,
Edited on Sat Sep-01-07 11:37 PM by MethuenProgressive
and the realists back the strongest candidate in the field, Hillary Clinton.
We need this election, and risking it on shallow but pretty Obama or pretty but shallow Edwards would be a disaster.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Nonsense and neither Obama or Edwards are shallow.Realists know that Hillary is not liked by the
general public and on election day that is whose vote one wants.I have never seen supporters unrealistic as those that follow Hillary. Repugs and Indies will come out in droves to vote against her. That is an indisputable fact.It may not be nice and she may not deserve this, but the GOP spin machine long ago created a character for Hillary that the average person does not like.And they believe that character is true.They may not like the GOP and are disgusted but they hate Hillary and that is set in concrete.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #21
38. You are obviously besotted with your candidate
It's clouding your judgment! By repeating "hate Hillary" as much as you can, as often as you can you're doing the GOP's dirty work for them, whether you're capable of understanding that or not.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #38
52. Just the facts ma'am as Lt.Friday would say
I am not the besotted one. I recognize the weaknesses of my candidate.I see flaws and strengths ia all our leading contenders. You obviously see Hillary as above reproach and perfect.That is really sad.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Methuen....

How the hell did you go from Clark/Richardson to HRC?

That's like trading in your sleak black metalic Lamborghini for a dented up, kermit the frog green, rusted out Vega.

Dayum, you've been reading too many Elmer polls buddy!

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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #25
39. Wes & HRC both want to protect vets, get us out of Iraq, and defend the US
They're sitting on the same security sofa!
:dem:
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 05:13 AM
Response to Original message
28. In her wildest dreams, I doubt that Hillary ...
ever her saw herself as a Goldwater Democrat.

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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 05:41 AM
Response to Original message
29. Such pessimists! In truth, ANY Democrat will slaughter ANY Republican in 2008.
Edited on Sun Sep-02-07 05:48 AM by Perry Logan
Cheer up. The polls are heavily rigged in favor of Republicans, and the mainstream media will say anything to lower your morale.

Americans will not forget the last seven years of Republican catastrophes when they go to vote. The 2008 election will be a landslide for the Democrats.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #29
41. But only one will beat them into the dirt
I want a candidate who will crush the GOP, not make make nice (Obama) or just squeak by (Edwards).
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riona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
30. I don't care what the polls say
She won't get my vote in the primary. But I worry about who will come out on top with the way the votes split. Having primaries all over the calendar doesn't help.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
36. "they have handed the baton off to the wrong runner." *** ROFL! ***
Edited on Sun Sep-02-07 09:19 AM by wyldwolf
Do you think if we nominated our candidate the old fashioned way (the way we did it before "progressives" changed it), Obama would be the nominee? Seriously?

The "smoke-filled" rooms of Democratic lore would have both Hillary and Obama waaaay down near the bottom of their lists.

And, just to point out one more time, the favorable and unfavorable ratings have been (or will soon be, depending on the poll) neutralized. The More Obama's name gets out there, the higher his negatives have gone and will go. MOST people who have been involved in politics longer that one or two election cycles understands this.

If the writer were being honest and not just trying to wet the panties of Obama's college-aged and civil rights era supporters, he'd have written that both Obama and Clinton beat Republicans in head to head match-ups - neither really more so than the other.

So what's really left? The piece admits the two are practically twins ideologically. Polling, both current and historic, proves the more well known a candidate is, the higher their negatives though. Looks like what we have left is a dubious claim of superior rhetoric skills - which hasn't helped Obama much in the debates - and a subtle undercurrent of a candidate of destiny - like so many "power to the people" would be nominees of the past.

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Hersheygirl Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
42. Have you ever heard of the Bilderburger group?
Edited on Sun Sep-02-07 09:30 AM by Hersheygirl
If Hillary is the nominee they'll make sure she's elected.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #42
64. I've heard of the Bilderburg (?) group. Did she attend this year?
I know John Edwards attended. Did John John Kerry or Bill Clinton? I was really surprised at the people on the list when I last read it, i.e., John Edwards. Someone please elucidate about Hillary. Inquiring minds want to know.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
45. I see the boo birds are out again today
perhaps I should buy an umbrella....
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
47. The polls don't lie. Maybe.
They don't tell the truth, either.

Have you never responded to a poll knowing that your answer can be spun to mean something different than you intended because of the way the question is worded?

Poll questions are carefully designed to manipulate the outcomes.

They can narrow the choices so that the honest choice is excluded.

They can use broad, general language that allows for multiple interpretations.

They can be manipulated by withholding information in order to control responses.

The over-reliance on polls in the political process is a dysfunction that serves to guarantee that our elections are not fair. IMO, of course.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
49. Point of fact: They said the same thing when she first ran in NYS...
And now she has something like a 70% APPROVAL rating in NYS...especially WNY, too...
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
54. Okay, so now Obama supporters want to p*** off Kerry supporters, too?
Got it.

:eyes:

(at least it's not Obama doing it.)
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
55. Obviously this guy has never had any experience at a fundraiser with
Hillary-

But Democrats will know their mistake long before any of this. Once the Democratic National Convention rolls around and the polls show Rudy Giuliani or Fred Thompson in front, Obama will coolly strut out onto the dais and make a rousing, inspiring and heart-felt speech that will make everyone in the room teary-eyed and proud to be an American. When he is done talking, Hillary will walk out and speak, and Democrats will lower their Clinton signs and look down at the floor, realizing that, once again, they have handed the baton off to the wrong runner.

She has star power as well as Obama. Nice that he likes Obama but be sensible and do not discount the fact that Hillary has strong support even now.
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historian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
56. dems dilemma
sometime ago i wrote that if the dems seized power and did nothing they would be doomed in the next election. I was immediately excoriated and accused of being a republican in disguise simply because i wanted the dems to wake up and now my worst fears are coming true.
They are caving in to bush at every opportunity and now are now rushing towards the precipice by nominating hillary!!!!!!
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
59. Rasmussen, hired pollster for Fox..nough said, and
Edited on Sun Sep-02-07 02:59 PM by BenDavid
You all keep on believing this horse manure and when HRC wins the nomination keep on believing what the right wing keeps dishing out that HRC cannot win. Too high negatives....Talk about most of you in here being gullible enough to buy into this crap....Think for yourself here for a second....Just whom do you truly think the racist republicans would enjoy running against? If you guessed Obama you are right and nothing would make the right wing happier then to knock HRC from being the nominee....So, please do not fall for the right wing crap.....

I do thank you
Ben David
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Visigoth1 Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
66. Candidates too similar
Biden, Richardson, Dodd, Clark, Gore, need to step aside.

Hillary doesn't excite anyone

Americans are weary of the Clintons and slick Politics
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
67. This is still America, and we are still to narrow-minded to elect either
Edited on Mon Sep-03-07 01:18 PM by greyhound1966
a woman or a black man. Jesus Christ himself (the real guy with the dark complexion, not Mel Gibson's fantasy guy) could not win here. There are still too many bigots in this country and they will go so far as to actually register in order to vote against either of these candidates.



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cd3dem Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
69. why don't all you haters start your own haters group
all you haters make me sad to be a democrat... I am tired of you... when I read this SHIT I do not want to stay on this site anymore...

YOU are the reason why the dems lose... negative... negative... negative...

why don't you all find a hole and crawl into it!!!!

the republicans will go after any candidate the dems put out... Obama... Edwards... whatever... get a brain!!!!

you are so stuck on your candidate that you don't see the negative crap that they could start on them.... so you whine and whine about Hillary.... SHUT the hell up and move on..

talk about the dang issues!!! talk about why your candidate is more qualified... all I hear is Obama will give a great speech... I don't care about the speech... Bush has his speeches written for him and it doesn't make him anything...

I care about the action... tell me why I should support your choice....
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Visigoth1 Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
70. if so many Dem politicians didn't vote like Republicans ( the DLC)...
Edited on Tue Sep-04-07 12:23 PM by Visigoth1
we'd have no objection
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
71. LOL, oh the irony of pointing out Kerry who was viewed as the best able to beat Bush.
This is a kid in college. I doubt he even remember the Kerry campaign in enough detail to tell us what happened.
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