Clinton proves favourite across the Atlantic - The Guardian

[demoleft]

"Europeans overwhelmingly support Hillary Clinton in her bid to become the next US president, according to a poll published today.
The poll, conducted in Britain, France, Germany and Italy, put Barack Obama, her main rival, in a distant second place.
Her high ratings in Europe may reflect her greater name recognition from her time as First Lady. The election campaign is still at an early stage and many of the candidates are relatively unknown outside the US. About half of those questioned in Britain had no view.
...
Ms Clinton enjoyed the biggest support in Germany, where she recorded 45.5%, followed by 43.7% in France, and 35.2% in Italy. In Britain, France and Germany, more men expressed a preference for her eventual victory than women."

Among the Reps, Giuliani got 17.5% in Italy - due to his origin, no doubt.

The bare truth is: the majority of the Europeans don't know a thing about the candidates and Mrs. Clinton has well established name in Europe because of her husband. Information on candidates on the public national media - at least in Italy - is extremely poor.

The Guardian, http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections08/hillaryclinton/story/0,,2158408,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

[William769]

1. Get ready here it comes!

BTW K&R! :hi:

[emilyg]

2. If you read some of the overseas papers -

people are very much in the know about our politics. K&R

[demoleft]

3. I do. But I admit mine is just a personal feeling...

...and in fact I think US politics are very popular topic here in Europe.

What I meant was that I don't think people here go deep into the differences between Clinton and Obama, for example.
So if they're asked about Clinton or Obama, I think Mrs Clinton gets a larger share because of her name.
No one likes to be considered mis-informed and Europeans are so proud...

A more interesting poll could be: "which candidates' program for social welfare and health care would you prefer?"
Europeans would find it harder to reply!

But hey, I would be glad to see a woman President. I firmly believe males' politics have made a mess of the world in the last century.
Strong woman's point of view and operative energy are necessary now.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

8. The Independent seems to do more than any of the other papers

Although some call it a hack paper. I quite like it because it's easy to read (it's in a Tabloid format, unlike the Times and the Daily Telegraph, you've got to find a decent table to read them!).

I keep seeing topics about America on the Independent's front page. There are quite a lot of US ex-pats in the UK as well as in continental Europe.

By the way, I didn't get polled but I support Barack Obama (says Zen from the UK). I just don't like the idea of Bush Clinton then another Bush then another Clinton.... just a bit too much of a pattern for me. If Clinton does get the nomination, I'll vote for her.

[DFW]

4. A lot of good THAT'LL do us

The Europeans, along with the rest of the world, overwhelmingly
supported Al Gore in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004.

That and 2 euros will get you a decent café au lait in France......

[Tellurian]

5. Why...They don't have relatives living here?

who feel the same way about the Clintons?

[DFW]

9. Most do not.

The fact is that the great majority of Europeans
have had a better feel for which candidate would
have better served the USA for decades now, and
we have only agreed with them three times in the
last forty years: 1976, 1992, and 1996. I am one
of those who happen to think that we also won in
2000 and 2004, but if our man didn't take office,
then it doesn't count.

As 2008, they just want the Republicans out. HRC
is by far the best known Democratic candidate in
Europe, and so of course she'll get the most votes
in a European beauty contest. She pretty much represents
the Democrats in their eyes for now, but if she does not
get the nomination, it won't matter. They have a little
more common sense than some of us. If they could vote,
it wouldn't matter tothem if it's HRC, Edwards, Obama,
Kucinich, or whoever. They want the Republicans out no
matter what (they HATED Reagan, and know the Republicans
idolize him still), and do not have this "if it's so-and-so,
I won't vote" attitude.

One once said (right before the 2000 election) that the choosing
of the President of the United States is too important a decision
to be left only to the voters of the United States. That is an
argument not lightly dismissed.

[Tellurian]

13. The US population is comprised of immigrants..

from sea to shining sea. I have no idea why you think we don't have relatives living overseas, unless you are an American Indian, then I can see your point.

[DFW]

16. I'm well aware of that

I have relatives living in Europe (my wife is German, ergo..).
I am also stationed in Europe, and have been for 25 years, speak
nine languages, am presently coming to you live and in color from
Central Europe, etc etc etc. I still say that the European press
and the sentiments of Europeans have little to no bearing on what
happens in the American elections. If they had, we would have had
nothing but Democrats from JFK onward. They were never more confounded
than when Reagan and Bush Lite were inaugurated. Not only Europe, for
that matter, but Latin America and most of Asia as well. Only Saudi
Arabia is a possible exception to that (Bush family connections).

I wish it were otherwise, but I think history bears me out. There is just
too much of the attitude in the USA that they don't care what "furriners"
think. This isn't always bad. The environmental movement mostly got its
start in the USA, as well as the non-smoking drive, and Europe has been
playing catch-up after initially mocking us for both. But as far as our
elections go, it doesn't seem to matter how much common sense they try
to pound into us. Too few people in the United States seem to be listening
to make a difference, relatives or not.

[comtec]

6. 2 € won't get you crap for coffee

you'll probably have to pay at least 3e... or maybe that's just here in the Netherlands...
The closest Star Bucks is on the secure side of the airport :), otherwise I need to drive to Germany for a fresh frappichino 5e for the smallest, but OH so worth it!

[DFW]

10. I'm in Germany

And you can find a decent cup of coffee for €2.
You don't HAVE to go to Starbucks. Lekker, maar
dat hoeft niet, if you know what I mean ;-)

[comtec]

11. LOL ja dat weet ik wel!

True - I just miss Starbucks :)
And the coffee, that is "fresh brewed" here is erg slecht!
The Germans - ok and I'll admit the French - know how to make goooood koffee
I just don't understand how/where the Dutch went so wrong LOL :)

[Totally Committed]

7. Of Course HRC is Europe's Candidate! I believe that totally, and here's why:

They can LOOK like they are repudiating the RW policies of Bush while keeping most of them... Which is what they evidently really want to do:

After the Presidential Elections, A Reactionary Offensive Against Youth and Workers...
France Turns Hard to the Right

http://www.internationalist.org/francerightturn0705.html


Belgium turns right

http://bruxelles.cafebabel.com/en/post/2007/06/12/Belgium-turns-right


THE NETHERLANDS IS NO LONGER A PARAGON OF ALL THINGS LIBERAL...
Right Turn
by Abigail R. Esman

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20060116&s=esman011606


Labor's Right Turn

West Germany's 6,400,000-member Trade Union Federation has made a turn toward the right with the election of free-enterprising Ludwig Rosenberg, 59, as chairman. Unlike his up-from-the-factory colleagues, Rosenberg is a lifelong white-collar worker who became a union organizer more out of intellectual conviction than economic necessity, fled the Third Reich in 1933 and later helped the British Ministry of Labor find wartime jobs for thousands of refugees from Hitler.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,829443,00.html


Spain turns right.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5037/is_200003/ai_n18276766


Italy turns rightwards

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2242/is_n1542_v265/ai_15695147


How the neoliberals stitched up the wealth of nations for themselves
A cabal of intellectuals and elitists hijacked the economic debate, and now we are dealing with the catastrophic effects

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2157197,00.html


Most of the European Union has taken a turn to the Right as their elections are held. Bill CLinton was the first real ally of Tony Blair, head of "New Labor" (the mirror of the "New Democrats" -- The DLC -- here in the U.S.)

Of course the Clinton's are Europe's favorites! They get all the RW policies of the Republicans without having to embrace a candidate that will be "perceived" as much of a RW-er as a Republican would be by the common people of their countires. It's a sort of STEALTH move.

TC

[comtec]

12. Don't forget Holland has turned reich as well

And no I'm not joking!
With the CDA in power (Christian Democratic party) things have gone from marginal to OMFG worse!
It's GoP lite here, and ... omfg... Oh well, it could be worse.
the CDA occasionally does things right, but not often.
I hope the SP gets more votes the next election. I also hope the
current government falls.. and SOON

[DFW]

17. The European right is still way to the left of the American far right

Sarkozy and Merkel will still leave intact social programs
that would make even the most progressive Democrat running
in terror for cover. Health care and education are, while
getting more expensive, still negligible in cost to almost
any citizen in France and Germany. Any American politician
who proposes such a thing is immediately labeled "socialist!"
and spends the rest of the month trying to shake off the label.
Trying to raise American taxes to a level sufficient to pay for
anything close would be suicide at the ballot box.

Also to be considered is the fact the much of the European left
(I am not well familiar with the situation in Nederland) has
made total fools of themselves while in power. In Germany they
have become so staid that much of the far left has already split
off into another leftist party, and allied themselves with the
Easterners who were all for shooting people at the Berlin Wall, thus
removing much of their shot at being taken seriously by mainstream
socialists who would otherwise be receptive to such a movement.

In France, Ségolène Royal spouted the populist "Soak the rich and
give it to me to give to the poor" line that always inspires most
French to cheat on taxes, a national pasttime there. No wonder Sarko
won, despite heavy baggage. He has proved so far quite sly, inviting
prominent Socialist Party members into his cabinet, something Ségo would
never have done for her opposition. That election was hers to lose. The
people were plenty tired of Chirac, even though they supported his staying
out of the Iraq invasion. She blew it anyway.

In Belgium, the former leftist government pandered to a huge population
of Islamic immigrants, even forbidding the media to state, in reports of crimes,
that the perpetrator was an Arab. Moroccans who commit violent crimes are
invariably let back onto the street, with the mitigating circumstance that
they were poor foreigners in need of understanding. Belgians, understandably,
gradually are having enough of this, and this whole attitude has given rise
to an extremely ugly Nazi-like xenophobic movement there. Not pretty, but
predictable. I'm in Belgium once a week for work, and I can tell you that
not only Belgians feel this way. Most Arab immigrants feel this way, too.
After all, it's no fun for them to be lumped into one category by their host
population just because the government gives every violent criminal de facto
immunity for the sole reason being Moroccan.

By the way, I want to know how a 59 year old German, who could have been
born in 1947 at the earliest, escaped the Nazis in 1933?

In Spain, it is worth noting, it was the right who made fools of themselves by lying
and coddling up to Bush (Aznar). The people there got tired of that, too, and voted
the left (Zapatero) in when the last elections came around. It's less of a left-right
thing here, and more of a how-stupid-is-the-other-guy thing. Italy ditched Berlusconi
and voted in Prodi because Berlusconi was a rightist clown. A rich and flamboyant one,
to be sure, but enough was enough.

I wish that in 2004, the American electorate had reacted the same way. Had we had French
voters or British voters at our ballot boxes, Bush wouldn't have gotten enough of a percentage
to advertise for a savings account.

[NoFederales]

14. It is sad: the "World" wants HRC so we fucking ignorant other choicers must

be waterboarded 'til we agree. NO GODDAMNED WAY. The American Republic needs Change or it dies.

NoFederales

[Totally Committed]

15. Ain't THAT the truth?

:eyes:

TC

[DFW]

18. Don't worry about that

The world just knows who she is more than the others.
That doesn't mean squat. They couldn't even spell
"Clinton" in 1991, and yet look who won in 1992.

It REALLY AND TRULY will not make a difference in
the primaries what "the world" prefers. If Hillary
gets in, it'll be due to events on our side of the
pond, and the same goes for Obama, Edwards, or ANY
of the others. Editorials in Le Monde don't influence
American primaries any more than articles in The Dallas
Morning News influences elections in France.