DNC strips Florida's delegates, FL has 30 days to rectify situation

[draft_mario_cuomo]

Florida's delegates have been sacrificed on the altar of Iowa and New Hampshire's royal status in the country know as Iowa and New Hampshire and 48 minor states.

==DNC Strips Florida Of 2008 Delegates
No Convention Slots Unless Later Primary Is Set

By Michael D. Shear
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, August 26, 2007; Page A01

The Democratic National Committee sought to seize control of its unraveling nominating process yesterday, rejecting pleas from state party leaders and cracking down on Florida for scheduling a Jan. 29 presidential primary.

The DNC's rules and bylaws committee, which enforces party rules, voted yesterday morning to strip Florida of all its delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention in Denver -- the harshest penalty at its disposal.
The penalty will not take effect for 30 days, and rules committee members urged officials from the nation's fourth-most-populous state to use the time to schedule a later statewide caucus and thus regain its delegates.

By making an object lesson of Florida, Democrats hope to squelch other states' efforts to move their voting earlier, which have created chaos in the primary structure that the national party has established. But the decision to sanction such a pivotal, vote-rich state has risks.==

Read the rest at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/25/AR2007082500275.html?hpid=topnews

[Kagemusha]

1. I thought the nationally agreed to plan had two other early states.

I can't recall which states, but I do recall that it was a unanimous vote by DNC delegates at the time...

And lest anyone forget, the Florida party branch sent a letter to the DNC that I can summarize in two words.

"Bite me."

So the DNC did. And took a big chunk out.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

3. Yes, SC and NV but look at where the candidates spend their time and money

Instead of the United States we have the following hierarchy in selecting a nominee:

Iowa
New Hampshire


(big dropoff)

South Carolina
Nevada



















(massive dropoff)

Every other state unworthy of seeing a presidential candidate so early. :eyes:

We should rotate the states that get the early spots.

[Kagemusha]

4. I've heard the rotation idea and I'm fine with it.

But that's something to be determined at the national level. Florida's own delegates voted for the plan Florida's Democratic party broke... and then they had the temerity to sneer about how they're so much more important than anyone else. Not gonna impress people from the "lesser states" that way.

And I don't want to see primaries in Dec, 2007. I don't.

[Debi]

5. Actually the calendar was ---

IA (1/14)
NV (1/19)
NH (1/22)
SC (1/29)

Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas
California Colorado Connecticut
Delaware Democrats Abroad
Georgia
Idaho Illinois
Kansas
Minnesota Missouri
New Jersey New Mexico New York North Dakota
Oklahoma
Tennessee
Utah (2/05)

Here's the rest:

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/ccad.phtml

I don't think 21 days between Iowa and the national primary can really be called hierarchy.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

7. When is the last a candidate visited Alabama, Colorado, or Missouri?

Those states have a minor role--if Iowa and NH have not effectively chosen the nominee by then. Collectively, yes, they may have a role but those individual states will not have much of a role, with the possible exception of California if the race is actually alive by Super Tuesday.

Let me put it this way. When is the last time those states had a role in selecting our nominee? How often do they have a role?

[Debi]

8. Iowa and New Hampshire combined have under 100 delegates to be awarded to a candidate

it takes over 2100 delegates to become the nominee. All Iowa and New Hampshire do is award their (very small amount) delegates to the candidates who best perform in those two states. If the MSM and the (very fickle) voting public act like sheep and decide to blow off their candidate of choice for # 1-2-3 in the first two states what are you going to do? Blame Iowa and New Hampshire? Geez, blame the 20-some states that moved to February 5th rather than the four states (that don't even make up 1/10 of the delegate count)that go 21 days before the national primary.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

9. How many times have candidates been where you live?

I can tell you how many times the 18 candidates have visited where I live: 0. What makes the votes of Iowans more valid than those of New Yorkers, Arizonans, and, yes, Floridians? We should have rotating primaries. Let us decide who the sacred few states are in a fair matter.

[Hippo_Tron]

44. It's a shitty system but until we get public financing it's a better system than a national primary

Iowa and New Hampshire going first isn't a fair system for the voters but it is a fair system for the candidates because they get to be judged on their merits and not on their fundraising dollars. There is no greater example of the democratic process than candidates for President actually having to go door to door and hold small gatherings in living rooms. In Florida, California, and New York that is simply not possible. In Iowa and New Hampshire it is.

When we fix the financing system and create a level playing field I'm all for ditching Iowa and New Hampshire's favorite status.

[cobalt1999]

10. You know the delegate count isn't as important as the timing.

That's why you are fighting to keep your Iowa vote early. If Iowa has no influence are you willing to go dead last? Thought not.

[killbotfactory]

19. Having two small states first allows lesser known candidates to compete

If it was just big states first, or all the states at once, only those candidates who can raise a lot of money would have a chance.

Small states should probably take turns having the first caucus or primary.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

20. Valid point. I agree with you. Let small states rotate for the first two

(if you haven't already had a heart attack after hearing me say "I agree with you" ;) ) Then perhaps have the 3rd and 4th states be chosen randomly, to give the big states an occasional chance to play a role in the primaries. If a strong candidate, even without a lot of money, comes out of the first two states the front-runner he or she would retain that status via momentum even if California was the 3rd state. Money can only go so far. Look at Dean last time.

I firmly oppose the notion that Iowa and New Hampshire are superior to small states like Delaware, Rhode Island, West Virginia, or Montana.

[jmp]

11. I'd rather blame the priviledged states.

And Emperor Dean for trying to hijack the nomination process.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

13. Isn't it ironic to see Dean fight so hard for Iowa?

I understand why he has to but it still is ironic...

[IndianaGreen]

15. He is doing his job as DNC Chair. Go Florida Democrats!

This is about the rank-and-file taking control over the process from the Beltway hacks.

[madfloridian]

21. Oh, gee whiz, IG...our Florida Democrats are NOT rank and file anything.

You have got to be kidding me.

[rwheeler31]

2. Good

[jmp]

6. This is part of Dean's 49 state strategy

He's still working on a 48 state strategy ... just in case Michigan moves up its primary.

Dean is going to disenfranchise Florida ... and Michigan

And then he's going to disenfranchise NY ... and California

But he's not stopping there. He's going to disenfranchise Washington and Illinois and Indiana and New Mexico and Louisiana and Tennessee and Wisconsin ...

YEEEEEAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!

[draft_mario_cuomo]

12. I like Dean but that was very funny

:rofl: :toast:

[IndianaGreen]

23. LMAO

That was funny!

[IndianaGreen]

14. I am sick of Iowa and New Hampshire's compensating for their little man complex

If Florida Democrats want to control their destiny and move their primary, more power to them!

They should stand fast and call the DNC's bluff.

[madfloridian]

26. Well, IG, substitute Florida's big tough guy corporate complex.

You seem to be eager for that.

[IndianaGreen]

30. Iowa? How about Archer Daniels Midland Corporation? The ethanol guys!

It is all corporate!

[Hobarticus]

33. And that has to do with the primary....how?

Keep throwing, something'll stick.

[Critters2]

42. ADM is HQ'd in Illinois.

And if it's corporate you want, let the urban states go first. That's where the corporations are.

[Hobarticus]

28. ....says the poster from Indiana

Why don't you ask candidates where they'd like to first start spending their advertising dollars? Renting local campaign headquarters? Hiring staff?

High-dollar Florida? Or relatively inexpensive Iowa or New Hampshire?

[madfloridian]

36. I have a better idea. Fire Dean's lazy ass and get Harold Ford in there.

His big money connections will solve all our problems, and he would never cross Florida.

[illinoisprogressive]

16. something needs to be done to stop the baby 'me first' madness. go Dean!

[jmp]

17. I'll bet Obama is hoping all the pro-Hillary states get robbed of their delegates.

Of course if that happened, the DNC would be able to move their convention to a phone booth in Denver. :P

[TSIAS]

18. I side with the DNC

I just got a letter asking me to attend the state convention later this year. I did so in 2003, but refuse to attend this year.

I don't get why FL is going after this power grab. If anything, FL moving up takes away any chance for an underdog to catapult himself upwards. Basically the race will be dominated by big money television ads. Say what you like about Iowa and NH, but at least it doesn't take as much money to win as it would take in Florida and California.

And considering FL's questiobable record when it comes to election accuracy, I'd hardly consider us the best state to take this step forward.

Just consider who is really in charge of the state. It's the Repuke dominated Legislature, along with a handful of fellow travelers who call themselves Democrats. Make no mistake -- this was a ploy by Republicans to win the state in 2008 and try to steal another election.

[jmp]

22. "If anything, FL moving up takes away any chance for an underdog ..."

I don't get why FL is going after this power grab. If anything, FL moving up takes away any chance for an underdog to catapult himself upwards.

Do you listen to yourself???

How dare we want to disrupt the nominating process by actually ... you know ... voting. Next thing you know us uppity Floridians are going to want to have our votes counted. Give us an inch and we'll take a mile every time.

When is enough enough? :eyes:

[killbotfactory]

24. Is FL is going to single-handedly reform the party nomination process?

Because right now all they are doing is forcing a crisis, by breaking rules they already agreed to.

[madfloridian]

25. Yes, I think they are going to do more than that.

First off, they alone can not bring all the change that everyone admits is needed.

But the main thing is they are thinking only of one state and what they want.

They have no kind and loving motives about protecting votes. If they did they would not have moved up past Feb. 5.

It was done to undermine Dean's authority because the change he wants to make and is making at the DNC will strip some power from the power folks.

Florida's worst crime in this was making it up as they went along, using Bush type propaganda. They told the media Dean was taking away their votes, and the media spread the word.

I am not sure we can be active here again.

[killbotfactory]

27. Are they trying to throw the state to the republicans?

Really, I just don't get it.

[madfloridian]

29. It is a power play to show how tough they are.

It appears to be directed at Dean and the DNC because they crossed Florida. Bill Nelson does not like to be crossed.

I don't think they care about the consequences to other states.

People who are cheering on Florida need to realize that our Democrats here are a donkey/elephant combo.

The worst thing they did that may keep us from working in the party here for a while.....was they lied.

They told the media Dean and the DNC were taking their votes away. That is just bull hockey.

[jmp]

41. Howard Dean is forcing the crisis.

Not Florida.

[LeftCoast]

31. Why should FL care?

IA and NH already make everyone's else's delegates irrelevant anyway. Living in CA, I've never been allowed to lend my voice to the nominating process either. Getting rather tired of these two states getting special status.

[madfloridian]

32. Let's let Florida decide the process.

Do away with the national committee and turn it over to Florida.

Things just work so well here.

[LeftCoast]

34. I guess my point is that as a Californian

it really doesn't make one whit of difference to me since by the time it comes around here I won't have a vote anyway. Our current primary system is unfair and undemocratic.

Also, from a real-politik perspective, threatening to w/hold delegates in this case doesn't seem to be a big threat since the entire debate is over the fact that virtually no other state apart from IA and NH get a say in the nomination apart from a highly symbolic casting of delegates.

[madfloridian]

37. Fire Dean's lazy incompetent ass. Harold is waiting.

And he won't cross our bully Florida Dems.

[Hobarticus]

35. Madfloridian, you crack me up...

Your utter resignation and disgust just oozes off the screen.

You are the wind beneath my wings.

[madfloridian]

38. I simply see where this is going.

I hope Dean steps down and goes back with DFA. He does not deserve this lawsuit crap when the DNC is following rules.

Fire him or get him out of there. He is too good a man to be insulted by the likes of Bill Nelson.

[Critters2]

43. Are you freakin' kidding me?

You get to vote, just like everyone else. If you CHOOSE not to vote for someone because they didn't win in Iowa or New Hampshire, you've made that decision. Don't blame it on Iowa and NH. And how many delegates will California get, compared to Iowa and NH?

[THUNDER HANDS]

39. wouldn't it just be easier to do it in alphabetical order

I mean, that seems fair to me.

[madfloridian]

40. First we need to fire Dean because he is stealing Florida's votes.

Then when Harold gets in....he will fix things.