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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:09 PM
Original message
The Blogometer: Clinton's tactic didn't work
CLINTON: This Tactic Did Not Work
The netroots are not happy with Hillary Clinton's admission that changing "tactics" in Iraq is "working." Despite Team HRC claims that the word "surge" never appeared in her 8/21 Veterans of Foreign Wars remarks, most are interpreting her statement as an endorsement of the surge. Reactions include:

Open Left's Matt Stoller: "Hillary Clinton is upfront that she thinks Petraeus has made progress in Iraq with new military tactics, she's also upfront that she thinks that the surge can't work. She also wants to leave troops in Iraq to continue the military progress Petraeus is making. That's why I don't trust her on Iraq."
Open Left's Chris Bowers: "I think this statement from Clinton is a very big deal, and does show her to have a more hawkish "core" than Obama, Edwards or Richardson. ... My main concern here is not whether this specific troop escalation had or has not worked (it hasn't, and both Obama and Clinton are wrong on that front, as the numbers objectively show) ... Rather, it is whether a sizable, long-term military presence in Iraq that arrived via pre-emptive invasion could ever have "worked," no matter what strategies were employed from the start."
Daily Kos' Down with Conservatism: "While she does say the best thing we can do is bring the troops home, even by acknowledging some sort of success because of the surge just shows Hillary's lack of credibility on the war. If you believe we should not be in Iraq, it doesn't matter if the surge is working or not. ... Democrats who hate the war should think twice before supporting Hillary."
MyDD's Todd Beeton: "At the very least, it was an acknowledgment of nominal support for one aspect of the president's escalation policy ... My larger issue with Clinton is when she chooses to reinforce right-wing talking points ... Talk about Bush/Cheney light."
Mike Gravel at The Huffington Post: "In an attempt to please an audience of veterans yesterday, Hillary Clinton said the surge was "working" and gave a helping-hand to the Bush spin machine ... Endorsing the surge is another example of how Hillary is adopting Bill Clinton's triangulation strategy. After securing the Democratic base, the Clintons always sacrifice their allies to the Right.
The Huffington Post's Frank Dwyer: "What does Hillary mean by "working"? How is the surge working? Is it the same goal she had in mind when she voted to allow Bush to go to war in Iraq if he wanted to? Is her only regret now that our "tactics" were flawed, i. e., we did not send enough Americans to accomplish whatever the Bush/Clinton goal is right from start? ... I have been thinking I would feel compelled to vote for Hillary if the Democrats nominated ... I'm not sure now how meaningful that vote would really be. And I don't think I'm going to be able to do it."


http://blogometer.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/08/clinton_this_ta.html
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Gee...lefty liberal bloggers lying about Hillary....
Shocking!!!

:sarcasm:
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I thought we were all part of the "left"
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. There is the left and then there is the wacky left.
Just like there is the right and the far wacky right.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. whacky left because they're not right-leaning "centrists" like you?
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I happen to be moderate.
Want to take a gander why there will never be a left of the left President?
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. one, that's a silly statement Kreskin.
two, who's "left of the left" here in the race (other than DK)? Obama, Edwards? Is there a point here?

we sure know who's sitting on the center-right (*cough* moderate *cough*) on the Dem side.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. You just don't seem to have any answerers, do you?
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. an answer to what? your bullshit hypothetical? nice try.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. Show me where I posted a hypothetical.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. post 11 kreskin
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. And how is that a hypothetical?
Edited on Wed Aug-22-07 02:18 PM by William769
And what is kreskin?

On Edit: lets review here shall we? You stated this is a left website, I said is was not and showed why, you backed off. You called me a centrist, with no proff to back it up, I stated I am a moderate. Everytime you get slapped down, you move on to something else. Why is that?
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. slapped down? gimme a fucking break....
ok, let's replace the word hypothetical with "bullshit assertion" that a "lefty" will never be elected president. Is that good enough for you? Kreskin is the Johnny Carson character that predicts things.

You wanna nitpick over moderate vs centrist vs dlc and possibly think you're "slapping me down"? You and elmer got a real wierd definition of what a slap-down. How bout this, you're a conservative democrat shilling for the DLC. You going to ask for proof of that too? Open up your "my DU" link and read your own posts.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. you realize how you look bashing the "left" on a lefty web site don't you?
everything you don't like reported about Queen DLC to you is a "lie". You guys flip your lids when you're not safely contained safely in a DCL circle-jerk.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. So by your reasoning democrats should nor be bashed here either?
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. i'm actually quite amused by the pathetic spinning,
backflipping, and hypocrisy you guys engage in...

the Goddess of Peace rhetoric...

the bashing of sources as lefty or liberal if they don't annoint your queen...

the infantile "debate tactics", and overall nastiness.

And all of this over the least charismatic and most right-leaning candidate next to Biden.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Now who's spinning? I asked a question. Wheres the answer?
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. i disagree with your basic premise that reporting unflattering
*FACTS* in a news article constitutes "bashing"... so I'm not going to play your little "answer my question" game.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. So I will take that as a no then.
Edited on Wed Aug-22-07 12:50 PM by William769
You can't have it both ways. This is BTW Democratic underground.

ON EDIT: this is not a left site, it is A Democratic site. All Democrats are welcomed here.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. again, any fact that paint her in a bad light are "lies" in your
world. Ridiculous, really.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Not facts...lies...
These people are lying about what she said...plain and simple...

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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. so you are saying you're incapable of digesting unflattering truth...thx
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. So you are saying you are incapable of digesting the truth that
Hillary's opponents on the left are yet again lying about her statements...thx

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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. only to you guys are quotations lies...
btw, love the copycat post tactic you guys use when you have nothing.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. When the proper wording has already been formulated...
Why reinvent the wheel...?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. What "changed strategy" does she refer?
:shrug:

And as to al Anbar, what evidence does she have the Sunnis there are conciliatory towards the Shiites and Kurds? Is fighting al Qaeda what we need to declare "victory" in Iraq? What does she mean?

She corrected herself today, good for her. It doesn't mean she didn't say what she said yesterday and, once again, leave people scratching their head as to what her intentions are.
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HeraldSquare212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. Very effective
So that little graphic is the vaunted Clinton secret-weapon to fight back against RW attacks? She's a shoo-in.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. This thread answer my question about "conservative Democrats"
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
22. No, since Obama sends his wife to do the dirty work.
May be she should send Bill to do hers. Course Bill would be a better draw than Obama's camp.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. what the hell does that response have to do with the OP?
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Michelle Obama did not do anything wrong there
Her comments on her family and raising kids with values were as typical campaign speech for a wife as there is. The fact is that a reporter saw something that wasn't there - a swipe at Hillary. It very likely wasn't anything other than an attempt to shape the image of her husband and herself. That Clinton people take it as a slam - this really fits the words my Chicago area dad would have used - if the shoe fits, wear it. The problem is not what Mrs Obama said, but the fear of Clinton supporters that that side of Bill Clinton is a Clinton negative.
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Broke Dad Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. One of these days . . .
We can splice the segments together where Hillary says one thing to the VFW and another to the DU. Then we can splice together her speeched for and against ethanol.

Or maybe we could just replay the Obama 1984 parody commercial.
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