Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

BRING ON THE CLINTON (snicker!) DYNASTY!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:19 PM
Original message
BRING ON THE CLINTON (snicker!) DYNASTY!
Edited on Fri Aug-10-07 03:20 PM by wyldwolf
(This should have the effect of stepping on an ant hill)

Yesterday, we wrote about the increasing desperation in the hate Hillary camp of Republicans and fake “progressives”. The desperation is due to Hillary increasing her poll leads. Nicholas Kristof gave voice to that desperation in yesterday’s New York Times.

Kristof declared that if Hillary is elected after Bush we are in danger of having a dynasty established in our presidency. Bob Somersby, an Edwards supporter and publisher of Dailyhowler.com, incomparably responded that Kristof’s argument appeared to be - don’t vote for Hillary in 2008 because we (allegedly) voted for Bush in 2000.

The dynasty argument is silly on its face, but it is actually much more pernicious and sophisticated than it appears to be. The thrust of the argument as articulated by Kristoff, and echoed by the nutroots, is that if Hillary is elected for 2 terms we will then have “seven consecutive presidential terms” in which the White House “would have been in the hands of just two families.” Kristoff pleaded “If we really want a presidential dynasty, then that’s fine. But we shouldn’t back into it without discussion — for the second time in eight years.”

The origin of this “dynasty” argument, as in most things anti-Clinton, has its roots in Republican strategy. In 1994 Democrats had controlled Congress for 40 years. Newt Gingrich was determined to get as many Republicans elected as possible and end the 40 wise years in which Americans kept Republicans from controlling congress. Newt Gingrich and his rabid band of Arriana Huffingtons knew that if they were to take over the congress they needed a gimmick to get them to that majority. Newt and his Republicans came up with a truly novel idea: get rid of experienced lawmakers. They called their gimmick “term limits”.

The idea behind term limits was to blast loose as many Democrats from political office as possible and break the 40 year Democratic grip on power. Newt and the Republicans, aided by Big Media screamed for “new blood” as the solution to the nation’s problems. The aim of course was never true reform nor bringing in outsiders. The aim was Republican control of congress and the new blood was to be new Republican blood.

The Republicans in 1994 were successful. They took over the congress. Since then Republicans abandoned the call for term limits. Most of the Republicans who promised to leave office after 2 terms in office broke that pledge after they were elected. The call for term limits was hypocrisy for political advantage.

Since 1994, the Republicans, led by their “C” student George W. Bush have waged a war on experience and intelligence - for political advantage. In 1994 they won the congress by attacking experience. Bush populated his government with horse aficionado “Brownie” and the Department of Justice with graduates from religious law “schools”.

The Republican attack on experienced lawmakers for their own political advantage is now a tool employed by fake “progressives” for their political and financial advantage.

Many of the fake “progressives” picking up pitchforks to attack Hillary obviously support other candidates. The big blog owners have financial stakes in bringing Hillary down and in increasing their influence in politics. Like the 1994 Republicans screaming for “new blood” these fake progressives are interested in promoting their political power over the interests of Democratic voters.

Does the Hillary “dynasty” argument have any validity?

We do find it interesting that now that the first likely woman president is running that Republicans and fake “progressives” have discovered the evils of dynasty. Are there any functioning dynasties in America today and should they stay in business? Should we throw out these dynasties?

Lets start with the Salazar brothers in Colorodo (Colorado Democratic Senator Ken Salazar and his brother Democratic Congressman John Salazar). Should we get rid of them in the name of anti-dynasty.

What about the Kennedys? The Kennedy’s have elected a President, several senators, congressional representatives, state office holders and many others. Today, we learned that a Kennedy might challenge Congressman Chris Shays in Connecticut. Should we throw the Kennedys out in the name of anti-dynasty?

What about Democratic Senator Jay Rockefeller? The Rockefellers have elected senators and vice presidents. Off with Jay Rockefeller’s head in the name of anti-dynasty?

What about former Vice President Al Gore? He was, like his father, the Senator from Tennessee. How did Gore become VP? It surely didn’t have anything at all to do with his father the senator? Al Gore entered the presidential sweepstakes in the 1980s. Now of course the tears flow and anticipation fills the airwaves, with “why won’t Gore run?” No dynasty talk there. No, its Run Gore Run and please ignore our hypocrisy. Should we ban Al Gore from running for President in the name of anti-dynasty?

What about the Cuomos (former NY Governor Mario Cuomo and his son Attorney General Andrew Cuomo)? Should we ban the Cuomo’s from public life in the name of anti-dynasty?

What about the dynastic Udall family? The great Morris K. Udall was the congressman from Arizona. He inherited his congressional seat from his father Stewart Lee Udall in 1961. Out with Stewart and immediately in with Morris. Congressman Tom Udall is still in office. And Congressman Mark Udall is running for the Senate from Colorado. Should we ban the distinguished Udall family in the name of anti-dynasty?

Of course none of these good Democrats should be excluded from our political life. The complaints against Hillary are a political bill of attainer applicable only to her. Hypocrites.

In his confused column, Kristof’s wife counterargues “that if our aim is to open up the political system and broaden opportunity, then what better way than to elect a woman?” Kristof’s replys that “the election of a first woman loses much of its significance if she has enjoyed a political shortcut as a predecessor’s wife”. Kristof seems to be unaware that Hillary has served a full term in the senate and won reelection on her own. No, for Kristof the little lady must be discredited as only the unaccomplished wife of the man even though her life of activism goes back to before her days at Yale.

Instead of asking why the presidency has been restricted to white males of healthy incomes Kristof and fake “progressives” denigrate Hillary. Instead of asking why the female majority has never been represented at the highest level they now raise the mud bedecked argument that Hillary was merely married to a president. Why only males Kristof? Why has the political system never produced a woman president? Is there a barrier to women becoming president? These questions do not cross these fake “progressives” minds. They belittle Hillary’s accomplishments and imply she would be nowhere without her husband.

Is marriage to a political leader now the new barrier to prevent women from breaking the glass ceiling? Is this the newly minted invention to block access to the political process? As women have progressed the excuses against participation have increased. When women were finally allowed to work in offices and as teachers then those became “their” jobs. Recall when it was controversial to have women police or firefighters. Firefighters were in a life or death business and there was no room for political correctness or diversity unlike other “women” jobs. There are always great new reasons for prejudice and exclusion.

Instead of asking what it is about the political system that has excluded women from the presidency the question becomes “oh we have no problem with a woman as president it’s just that this one has the experience of having been married to an ex president.”
Meanwhile, the tears flow because poor Jeb Bush can’t run for president because his dumb brother has ruined it for him.

The “dynasty” argument of course is at best inarticulate. A dynasty must have a sequence of some consequence and some durability. Bill Clinton was the first member of his family to win elective office. Hillary Clinton was the second member of the family to win elective office. That is it for the Clinton “dynasty” - 2 officeholders. A true dynasty is the Bush family. The Bush family had Senator Prescott Bush, Congressman George H. Bush, Vice President George H. Bush, President George H. Bush, Governor George W. Bush, Governor Jeb Bush, and, President George W. Bush.

We do agree that American life would be better without the Bush family. However, Americans disagree with us and keep electing them and the courts at least once selected them. No Clinton ran for president in 2000 nor in 2004. Democrats were not inaugurated the following January. Should we hold the Clintons to blame for the fact that they seem to be the only ones capable of defeating Republicans in general and Bushes in particular? This is the central silliness at the base of the “dynasty” nonsense.

Since the Bushes won’t go away on their own, we need the Clintons to get rid of them for us.

http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=46
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Don't care about dynasties.
I care about real change.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Do you believe Senator Hillary represents a real change?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Change, yes... but not enough for me.
I should have said substantial change, not real change.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. I am a fake “progressive” No way will she provide the Populist Leadership we require.
to bury the fascist policies forced upon us in the last 7 years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Fake "progressive" here, too!
Edited on Fri Aug-10-07 03:43 PM by redqueen
Her chumminess with media whores, offshoring giants, etc. leave me cold. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. I've made this same argument
but don't forget that DU is the Home of Selective Memory and Selective Outrage. Best to just let the anti-Dynasty folks have their second in the sun before we circle back to more important, pressing matters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. Bring back Dynasty!
Edited on Fri Aug-10-07 03:32 PM by ronnykmarshall
The big ass hair. The fights between Chrystal and Alexis!! :woohoo:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TlalocW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. All I know is this...
If you're over 35 and a natural born citizen, you can technically run for president so if 10-15 years from now, we've got Chelsea Clinton going up against Barbara or Jenna Bush, then that's what we got.
I don't really care who the democratic nominee is as I will be voting for them because anyone is better than Bush, and anyone is better than the group of morons the Repubs are running.
I enjoy telling my conservative friends that Hillary will be elected president because history has proven that it takes a Clinton to come in, govern responsibly, and clean things up after a Bush fucks everything up. I like seeing their faces get red with anger.

TlalocW
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lojasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. I don't care about all that hubbub.
I care about Clintons vote for

IWR
Patriot Act
Bankruptcy bill

And her continuing support for the war in Iraq, despite words to the contrary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Like It Is Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. You're a cut & paste Champion. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. Bravo! nm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. This must be the longest, most complex strawman argument I've
seen here.

You may be too young to remember, but the Kennedys have been accused of dynastic ambitions for decades; that has nothing to do with this. Nor do the Udalls, or the Rockafellers, or any other long line of distinguished political families.

It bothers me that so many Hillary supporters want her in because that will put Bill back in the White House.

By the way, what is a fake "progressive"? Is that different somehow from a "fake progressive"? Or a fake progressive? And how is that different from a real progressive?

It seems you have a real bug up your ass about progressives of any stripe - no doubt why you support a corporatist candidate to begin with. But I am interested in your definitions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. do you need some cheese with that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Great way to defend your argument.
Loser.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. It has more to do with "shadow government" ties than a family dynasty...
Edited on Fri Aug-10-07 03:47 PM by AntiFascist
although the Bush family certainly has its tentacles into a lot more serious venues.

Many people wonder why investigations into Iran/Contra were swept under the rug and how the BCCI network of criminal cash flow was allowed to live on. The Sibel Edmonds case has also been squelched and people are wondering why the progressive Democrats are shy about even acknowledging that there is something to investigate. This is because the underlying problem is so pervasive. The problem is certainly tied into organized crime - you may often see threads about how Congresspeople are being threatened or possibly blackmailed, citing the anthrax attacks as an example.

On edit: this is what separates the Kennedy dynasty from the Clinton dynasty. JFK was actually willing to take on the CIA. I seriously doubt if Hillary would ever be so brave.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. Of all the stupid arguments against Hillary...and there are many...
This takes the cake as the dumbest...

The argument is usually accompanied by some assertion that our founding fathers never intended that more than one member of the same family should be elected to office...without of course a shred of evidence that there intention was such. Without mention that not one of our founding documents ever uttered a word on the topic, or that the "Atlas of the Revolution," the man without whom we may not even be a country, John Adams, had a son rise to the Presidency....

And in all the correspondence between Thomas Jefferson and John Adams on the topic...not one peep out of either of them that this was in any way antithetical to the spirit of the founding...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. "In America, anybody can be president! Even you!"
This is where the annoyance comes in with the dynasties, hearing this as a child. The image that in America, a common person can be president if they were to work hard enough. So the myth is that the best person gets elected president. And Oh! Imagine the odds! The best person is coincidentally the former presidents son, and now its the former president's wife! What a coincidence!

I accept Hillary as prez, I don't think she will be bad (no worse that Bill, who was decent) but I do so with a newfound cynicism about how this country really works. The ideal America of my youth is long gone and I have to accept that good hard working people without power and connections don't become presidents. Its a bitter pill, but maybe its about damn time we woke up to what's really going on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Well-said. n/t
PB
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC