Hillary was full of it during the Gays Rights Forum. She side stepped Melissa Eldridge's question.

[eweaver155]

Melissa Ethridge asked Hillary Clinton the question why during her husband's campaign for Prez, gays believe in Bill's campaign promises on gay issues. During his administration, gays felt disappointment, with "broken hearts and were thrown under the bus". She replied to Melissa saying that "she saw it's differently than you". How can she say that when Bill campaigned on those issues and did absolutely nothing? The Clinton administration used gay issues for political advancement and didn't do shit for gay rights so how does she see it different? The difference is that gay people wanted change and the Clinton only wanted votes with no intention of solving those issues. I guess the blame was totally the fault of the Republicans at that time. Her husband's political strategy or ploy was to tell you what you wanted to hear. And if Hillary's elected, what would change? Nothing. The apple does not fall far from the tree. Plus, she consistently danced around the subject of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, blaming a "misinterpretation" of her husband's policies on the military and tried to justify it by saying that we did not intend for the results of that policy to be implemented in that way. So wow she wants to repeal the military policy? Why? because she is speaking to a gay forum? Sounds like voter pandering to me. That crowd did not buy that weak bullshit.

You are the Prez of the U.S. and one of your major functions is to ensure that all policies and laws you implement are implemented correctly and followed up properly. Bill Clinton dropped the ball on gay issues then and Hillary's weak stance on gay issues and her promises made now won't change anything. She wants to run on her husband's record but can't defend it. And, as usual, when asked, she said again "I am your girl". She did not intend to include gay americans in that sound bite. More bullshit and voter pandering. She is all political Washington D.C., just a old fashioned deceiver, manipulator and power hungry legacy hunter. America does not need this sneaky politician :puke:

[eleny]

1. I noted that she didn't look Melissa in the eye when she answered

She kept looking down and away and it was obvious she was on the hot seat.

[Clintonista2]

26. I'm watching the video now.. she's looking in Melissa's eye

Maybe you need to re-watch that part.

[Skip Intro]

2. What promises did Bill Clinton make on gay issues?

[closeupready]

15. I can't recall specifics, but I do recall how he courted the gay community,

and that he was going to make it so that openly gay men could serve in the military. What did we get? Don't ask, don't tell.

THEN, he went and signed the Defense of Marriage Act.

I like Hillary but even talking about this stuff makes me angry again. :mad:

[Skip Intro]

31. DOMA is bullshit, but I think Don't ask/Don't tell was seen at the time as a step forward

That's the way I saw it at the time. Then again, for me, politics was a light hobby at the time.

[papau]

3. The fierce Pentagon opposition to even as small a liberalization as don't ask was

matched by a media that used the gay debate to weaken the health push via making Clinton look weak and a pawn of an "interest group".

Clinton took a chance when he pressed for even a minor improvement - and lost in other areas because he took that chance and made that effort.

I don't see how one jumps on Clinton for not changing a nations point of view in 6 months. No one else has ever held the presidency and made an effort to change the situation.

Don't ask as implemented has actually resulted in more folks removed from service - hence her desire to repeal it and do a frontal attack on the idea that being gay is something anyone need hide.

[eweaver155]

6. But as Prez, this is the policy that you implemented

and yes the policy did remove hundreds of military members from service, but as Commander-In-Chief, it is your responsibility to insure policy oversight, proper implementation and proper follow up, and not allow policy to be abused by military commanders based on old fashioned military thinking and/or tradition. Those Generals work directly the Prez, not the other way around. You don't assign someone a project and not ask for require follow up and follow through. Any good administrator would ensure that happens. Bill Clinton dropped the ball.

[SaveElmer]

4. Historical revisionism is a DU specialty...

Hillary was entirely correct on the political firestorm this created...opposition to opening the door to gays in the military was led by a Democrat...Sam Nunn...

And oh btw, efforts at a compromise which resulted in DADT was led by...wait for it...Barney Frank...who said at the time about criticism of the policy (and I am paraphrasing), that he thought criticizing those who are trying to make progress on the issue (Clinton) was misguided...and that ire should be directed at those that wanted to continue with the same policy that made it a crime to be gay and be in the military...

And Frank vote YES on final passage of the bill...

[eweaver155]

9. But at the Presidential level, who commands the military forces

there was no oversight to ensure the policy was implemented correctly. The policy was created to ensure that military members were not discriminated against based on sexual orientation/preference, not military performance. Military commanders used it as a tool to discharge military personnel once they found out that a service person was gay. Just the mere reference or suggestion of being gay without that service member's attempt to influence service members based on homosexuality, was enough to discharge. President Clinton, The Commander-In-Chief, signed the bill, made it into law and did not properly follow through to ensure it's intended meaning was interpreted correctly or revised if necessary.

It doesn't matter who created/initiated/voted on the bill, Democrat or Republican. The President is the Commander-In-Chief of the armed forces, not San Nunn or Barney Frank. If Bill Clinton would have had military inspectors (The Inspector's General's Office (IG) periodically inspect military bases to ensure the policy was being implemented properly at the lowest level as opposed to listening to The Army Chief of Staff updated briefings and accepting the results as true facts, maybe the policy would have worked the way it was intended. Again, as I stated in a previous thread, Bill dropped the ball. In any organization, follow up is essential. That's an administrator's/implementor's responsibility.

[ruggerson]

5. You act as if Bill Clinton

was dictator instead of President.

He was naive to the extent that he did not realize that homophobia was rampant in Washington and drove public policy there.

He tried to lift the ban on gays in the military and was met with derision from the MSM and with hatred from the Republican party and from the Generals and from many Southern Democrats.

He issued an executive order banning discrimination against gays and lesbians in the federal work force.

He was the first president to routinely mention gay and lesbian issues in his speeches. He insisted that a gay man address the convention in '92 for the first time.

His record was far from good. Under guidance from Dick Morris, and still reeling from his encounter with institutionalized homophobia, he signed DOMA into law in the middle of the night. He caved to bigots.

But, history shows us that equal rights comes in increments, not all at once.

Clinton did far more for gay people than any previous presidents. Hopefully, the next Democratic president will pick up the ball and move it forward.

[bellasgrams]

7. So glad to see Dems speaks up for Dems.

There is so much trash talk about the party on DU.

[FiveGoodMen]

27. I only support the party because it has a decent platform

(fairness, equality, honest government, living wages, freedom of expression, etc.)

When people -- even inside the party -- don't live up to those ideals, they don't deserve support.

If we start blindly supporting Democrats just because they are Democrats, we will devolve into the same monsters that the Republicans are now.

This isn't about rooting for the home team. It's the principles that count.

[eweaver155]

10. I hope that you're right. Something needs to be done

The current D.C. machine is an antique. It needs to be changed. Yes, gay rights is a hard issue, but just be truthful and honest to the american people. Melissa Ethridge has a legitimate concern: the gay community wants change, and for the past 15.5 years, little or no result. But don't answer, "I see it differently than you" after all this time. It's empty, somewhat rude and not trustworthy. Hillary and other politicians don't have to walk in their shoes or other hundreds of other issues that americans have for that matter, but you are given the privilege to serve the american public, Democrat or Republican and our current political system doesn't do that. I don't want excuses, I want something done.

[DCKit]

14. Yeah, what ruggerson said

I'd like to mention as well that a Presidential directive isn't going to end homophobia and the resulting abuses, even murders, that are a given in the military.

It's going to take a HUGE fix and it's going to involve everyone from the top down and a ZERO tolerance policy for discrimination.

[eweaver155]

29. Isn't that why we elect our political leaders?

To make policy and laws and enforce those laws to provide those fixes. If our current political system was worth a goddamn and worked correctly, we could greatly reduce those things you mentioned as well as other issues. We elect them. They need to do their jobs and quit bitching' about how difficult it is. Hillary, if it so hard, why the fuck are you running for office and asking for my vote. When asked the question about no gay support Hillary gave that "Oh my husband and me had such a hard time getting support for law passage" bullshit. So shut the fuck up, quit blaming everything on everyone else, singing the same old song, work for the american people, solve problems and serve this country. This is one of the reasons why she will not be Prez, but do your fuckin' job anyway.

[smalll]

8. Riiight - she couldn't say "I see it differently than you" -

she HAD to say, "Yes, you're right Melissa Etheridge - we broke your hearts and threw you under busses. Sorry!" I have NO idea how Hillary hopes to win the nomination and then the presidency with bone-headed answers like that one!
:sarcasm:

[eweaver155]

11. At least it would have been honest, not the usual B.S. from her

The other candidates (Obama/Edwards/Richardson) struggle with their position on gay issues, I can respect that. Many americans do. Just don't sing the same ole song and sound foolish. She is beginning to sound like she's stuck in a continuous loop. :nopity:

[AnotherGreenWorld]

12. She said "I am your girl" again?

What the hell is this shit? I've not heard her say her "I got the scars to prove it" line in a while. I guess this is its replacement.

Somehow I can seeing this being used against her in the general election.

[eweaver155]

13. She is right She is their Girl for making False Promises to them.

[Ronnie]

16. They asked her to say it.

...

[ronnykmarshall]

18. No kidding

WOW! Two "ronny/ie's" on DU and both Hillary supporter!

[Az_lefty]

17. Melissa is right, they were set up and knocked down.

I don't remember exactly what the issues were but Bill did turn his back on them almost immediately.

[creeksneakers2]

19. Didn't Bill put great effort toward fighting AIDS?

I remember AIDS as the big issue in 1992.

[Cameron27]

20. At least Hillary has no personal problems

with the issue of gay marriage, unlike Obama who thinks marriage should only apply to a man and a woman, and Edwards, who still hasn't explained his personal conflict over this.

[ripple]

21. Hillary doesn't support gay marriage, either

Obama is doing the smart thing by putting the issue into a civil rights, rather than a religious context. That is the only way we're going to make headway on the issue.

[Cameron27]

23. I know she doesn't,

but I can't tell you how disappointed I am that Obama personally thinks marriage should be reserved for only a man and a woman. Unfortunately he did put it into a religious/social context, and the fact that he can't see this as discrimination makes me wonder how he can possibly consider it a civil rights issue.

[ripple]

25. Marriage is largely a religious institution

I doubt he truly disapproves that strongly, if at all, on a personal level. He's too smart for that. Instead, I think that he recognizes how much it ignites negative passion by folks who view it in the religious context. In my view, the government should only recognize civil unions for anyone, whether they be gay or straight. Let churches decide the criteria for recognizing marriage. I know that isn't going to happen, though.

As a lesbian, I honestly believe that Obama's approach is the correct one if we are even going to come close to full equality in the next decade. Unfortunately, the term 'marriage' tends to rally the ignorant and intolerant and drive them into a frenzy of action. That is evidenced by all of the state constitutions that were amended in 2004 to ban gay marriage- I know this well, as my state is one of them. As much as I long for full equality, including in marriage, I think we need to tread carefully in order to regain some of the ground we've lost and hopefully, gain some more ground.

Again, by putting it into a legal context and not a personal one, I think Obama is absolutely correct in thinking that people will be more open to the idea. After all, equality is something most people can get behind. Once it goes to a personal level (ie. Bush's 'threat to the sanctity of marriage meme), people tend to lose their objectivity. It's all about setting the tone for the discussion and not allowing oneself to get bogged down by useless anecdotes. For every gay couple that has been happily partnered for 15 years, the bigots among us will be able to think of five ridiculous stereotypes that make them believe that the couple is the exception to the rule.

Equality in the eyes of the law is where it's at right now. Once we can get that, I think we'll finally begin to erase a lot of ridiculous public perceptions that have been shoved down peoples' throats by right-wing extremists.

I hope I'm right about Obama (and while I'm probably not describing it well, if you read between the lines of what he's saying, you might get a better idea of what I mean). If I'm incorrect and he believes gay marriage is a sin or otherwise immoral, I respect his religious beliefs, provided that when the time is right for gay marriage to be accepted by the public, he doesn't allow his personal beliefs to affect his political judgment. Again, the way he's framing things gives me every reason to think he'll do the right thing- and more importantly, get the public to do the right thing. If he were to come out in favor of gay marriage now, it would effectively end his presidential bid and get the fundies on a rampage all over again. I think he has a long-range plan and I think that of all of the candidates, he is best equipped to change a lot of minds about this issue. By tapping into the best ideals people hold (ie. equality, fairness) and not allowing the other side to play to their worst (bigotry, inolerance), he's elevating the conversation to the point where we can make some progress, IMHO.

[eweaver155]

28. No personal problems? She supported civil unions, not gay marriage.

just as Obama, Edwards and Richardson did. That was the original question.

[goddess40]

22. "Politics is too soul sucking"

That's what Melissa Ethridge said that Gore was saying about politics. When she said it at the end of the debates last night I could tell it came with a very heavy heart and much regret.

[truedelphi]

24. I wish at least some of the canddidates would have the honesty of Lewis Black

When he says (about gay marriage) "In my mind that is like one of the fifty least important issues - right up there with "Does our nation consume too much garlic?"

I realize he's not running for office - but still - what difference does it make?

By the Christian Right's reasoning, we SHOULD NOT have been attacked on 9/11 because we have not yet permitted gay marriage.

Nor should we have lost Katrina

No wait a minute Silly me. Their reasoning is that those things happened just because we allowed gays to exist!!

[mistertrickster]

30. Hillary can't take a stand on gay rights because then she'd have to take a stand.

She never takes on a stand.

She's the epitome of fence-sitting Democrat that tries to make everyone happy and makes no one happy.