Ben Franklin Speaks!

[MannyGoldstein]

A better prognosticator than Nostradamus, I think!

From Dr. Franklin's closing speech to the Constitutional Convention:

"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."

He foresaw our inability to vote for good people - and we're getting exactly what we deserve.

[Tellurian]

1. No,not at all..

Your concept is seriously lacking addressing the division and the important contrasts within that division that has always existed concerning the Constitution since it's inception.

>>"He foresaw our inability to vote for good people - and we're getting exactly what we deserve."<<

When the Founders were constructing the tenants of the Constitution, there was a split on how the Constitution should be written and interpreted. The Federalists wanted TRADE & Military might as the major focus of the Constitution. The Anti-Federalists (Constitutionalists) worried the protections afforded citizens weren't good enough.

John D. Lewis’ book, ANTI-FEDERALIST VS. FEDERALISTS contains the principle divide existing with the Founding Framers.

"Those in favor of ratification of the Constitution were called Federalists. They were in support of the new plan of government. The Federalists had a distinct advantage over the Anti-Federalists for a number of reasons: they drew their numbers, generally, from the wealthy, propertied class, although there were some laborers and skilled craftsmen who favored the new Constitution (shipbuilders, dockworkers, and related fields). Others, on the edge of the frontiers, favored the Constitution for protection against the Indians; the Federalists had a tangible plan; their leaders had super images (Madison, Washington, Franklin, etc.); and they seemed to be better organized in reaching the people. THE FEDERALIST, a classic collection of political essays, is a notable illustration of this.

The Anti-Federalists found most of their support among the poor and small farmers, in general. However, some wealthy people joined the fight against ratification. States’ rights, the denial of individual liberty and increased taxes were the main arguments of the Anti-Federalists. Further, they touted the new powers of the Congress as subject to great abuse, as well as the powers of the new executive and judiciary branches."

...as we are all aware, there has been a concerted effort since 2000 to appropriate extraordinary powers to the Executive Branch.. And a reminder this action has little to do with your assertion :>>"He foresaw our inability to vote for good people - and we're getting exactly what we deserve."<<

It is the Republican Party that has acted in tandem as a majority to allow these extraordinary powers to flow to the EX Branch.. In direct contradiction to the majority voting for Gore in the 2000 election, having it stolen from him by the decision of the SCOTUS!

http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1982/3/82.03.03.x.html

"The Federalists were successful in their effort to get the Constitution ratified by all 13 states. The Federalists later established a party known as the Federalist Party. The party backed the views of Hamilton and was a strong force in the early United States. The party, however, was short-lived, dead by 1824.

The Anti-Federalists generally gravitated toward the views of Thomas Jefferson, coalescing into the Republican Party, later known as the Democratic Republicans, the precursor to today's Democratic Party."

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_faf.html

[MannyGoldstein]

2. "Sometimes A Cigar Is Just A Cigar"

I think you're over-complexifying this.

[Tellurian]

3. "He foresaw our inability to vote for good people - and we're getting exactly what we deserve."

We didn't "ELECT" GWB in 2000 or 2004.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. We *Did* Elect The 'Democrats' Who Are Aiding And Abetting

Unless you know differently.

There has been an active war against the bottom 98% of Americans (by income) since 1980. Most 'Democrats' in office have acquiesced to it, if not actively and proudly participating in it (e.g., the DLC). We voted for these awful, awful people. We have only ourselves to blame.

[Tellurian]

5. Do the math MG..

Dems have control by a slim majority in both houses. They've only been in power for 6 mos.

They're trying to unravel six and a half years of corruption as fast as they can.

Your being impetuous as usual, when it took 'you' 2 days to answer my post.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Did "Democrats" Not Capitulate To Bush's Illegal Power Grab?

Did two of our three frontrunners for President not vote to go to war with Iraq? And were they not endorsers of permanent "free" trade with China? And the "Patriot" Act? And the first hideous bankruptcy bill?

At best, we're talking Quisling Democrats here. And we voted for them.