The Kerry smear is not a Rove "black bag" job

[NNN0LHI]

And its not because Bush's minions have not been chasing after every old girlfriend that all the candidates have had at one time or another looking for dirt. Because they have been. I promise.

But to leak a story like this before the Democratic convention and before our nominee is chosen makes no sense at all. We can nominate anyone we want to then.

After the convention would have been the time to pull something like this. Not before. And they will too.

So what is going here? I would call it Democratic preventive maintenance. When the unproved or weak smears that are sure to start against our actual nominee begin after the convention the media will be very hesitant to report anything until there is rock solid proof. And if they do report anything it will be to expose how wrong these sources were the last time. It will take more than some bimbo saying that our nominee was a very nasty man for any credible source to run with the story. And all of the incredible ones who have run with the smear against Kerry this time will remain incredible.

The faked Kerry/Fonda photo was probably the same type of preventive maintenance. After enough people hear the reports about the faked photos of Kerry and Fonda together they will think that any photo that someone finds is also faked too.

Don

[molly]

1. Very smart analysis

[formernaderite]

19. Agreed...I still believe Lehane was behind this Kerry smear, along....

...with the Dean smear giving Lisa Meyers the Canadian tape where he dissed the Iowa Caucuses. I actually feel very sorry for Kerry at the moment, although I still support Dean. There have been too many reporters including the fellow from roll call, who have substantiated the fact that Lehane was shopping this story around. I have no idea whether Clark knew this or not...but considering his little "off the record" comments, and he hired the guy after Kerry fired him...he is somewhat culpable. Rove is probably not too unhappy about this, but the timing would have been better after Kerry had received the nomination. Sadly ONE democrat is responsible for this treachery...Chris Lehane.

[Adelante]

22. Here we go again, day after day ... NOT Chris Lehane

"The Drudge item blaming Lehane quoted Craig Crawford, a former Democratic operative who now works as a consultant and columnist for MSNBC. Within 10 minutes after Drudge posted the Kerry intern item, Crawford sent a memo to his superiors that said the story was "something Chris Lehane (clark press secy) has shopped around for a long time." According to Crawford, someone at MSNBC promptly leaked his memo to Drudge. But when Lehane called Crawford with a loudly indignant denial, the MSNBC columnist quickly issued a public retraction. He said:

"The comments attributed to me are from a private email to television news associates based on conversations with Democratic campaign operatives. I did not consider any of it confirmed enough to report or publish. I can only verify that Chris Lehane's rivals in other Democratic campaigns made these claims and I have found no independent source to confirm it. Which is why we did not go with the story. But then someone sent my email to others, which is the only reason it got into the public domain." In other words, there is no proof that Lehane circulated the rumor, let alone that the rumor has any basis in reality."

Source: Joe Conason, Salon, 2/13/04

[JI7]

2. it was right wingers

they are pushing this story because of the criticisms of bush going AWOL.

[JackRiddler]

3. Yeah, there's been a lot of prevention

Like the preventive war on Dean, lest anything actually change in the Democratic Party or its ossified leadership.

Why are you manufacturing spin? Do you actually have a clue where the intern rumor came from? If so, either tell us or drop it. Hunches don't matter.

And if you are right, would you approve of this kind of manipulative technique - no matter who it is supposed to benefit?

[NNN0LHI]

11. I am not telling you to drop nothing JR

And are you telling me that I a should not be able to express my opinion on this board with your spin and hunch comments? Tell me. Is that what you are saying? Because if you are...(use your own imagination in this space) .

Even after insulting me I will still answer your last question of whether I think it is right to do or not.

Listen. I want this election in November. I don't have a fucking clue as to what you are doing. Get it? What do you think Ed Gillespie the RNC chairman is doing with this quote?

Gillespie said: "We now know that some time this fall Kerry campaign operatives intend to go into pro-life chat rooms on the Internet to spread a scurrilous story that President Bush drove a former girlfriend to an abortion clinic, and paid for her abortion, according to the New York Daily News."

It is called preventive maintenance. They know that the Dem's have the goods on Bush with this abortion story. If they didn't Larry Flynt would have had the pants sued off of him a long time ago when ha said so live on cable TV. But he wasn't sued. But CNN sure the hell edited his charges off of their transcript page.

This is going to be a very nasty campaign. That is the kind that Bush runs. Remember McCain's black baby story Bush's people put out? So I suggest that if you don't have the stomach for these kinds of politics try golf. See ya.

Don

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[virtualobserver]

5. I can only think of one reason to disagree with you.

Since the driving force behind this is Drudge, and he certainly obeys his master, I think that Rove panicked as he saw Kerry rising in the polls and Bush dropping. He wanted to stop that poll movement before it showed Kerry leading by 20, and he desperately wanted to change the subject from the AWOL situation.

[LuminousX]

6. They've been prepared for Kerry for over a decade

They are most likely preparing a slow trickle. They already know Democratic voters don't care about the morals of the candidate when that candidate is facing down a Bush, but they know it works slowly on the minds of the independent voters.

Allegations won't stop the Primary Steamroller that is the Kerry campaign. It will just make his GE campaigning harder.

[Rich Hunt]

16. I think you're right n/t

.

[Walt Starr]

7. Drudge had a premature ejaculation

Drudge let the cat out of the bag early. Since Kerry categorically denied it, it will destroy the party if it's true.

[GOPEC]

8. I can't help thinking that...

I can't help thinking that following so closely on the heels of Gen. Clark's withdrawl, and in the midst of the AWOL story (suddenly negative stories have traction), and suddenly low approval numbers, that the early release of this "story" was part of a desperate attempt to change the nominee. It's too early for it to be anything else.

[dave29]

9. Someone wake me when we can

live in a world where political "preventive maintenance" is not required.

Thanks.

[BruinAlum]

10. I don't buy it. I think it is a Rove job. Too familiar

[Gman]

12. Gotta disagree because

as much as some of us would like to believe that other candidates still have a chance, Kerry seems well on his way to getting a majority of the delegates before the convention. Right, wrong or indifferent, Kerry's going to be the nominee. Remember that all delegates are committed (as in they do not have the right to vote for anyone else except who they are committed to) on the first ballot at the convention. From the second ballot on all delegates are released from their committments and can vote for whoever. Assuming Kerry has a majority of the delegates in line and committed before the convention, that first ballot becomes merely a formality.

That being said, I think the GOP sees Kerry as the inevitable nominee, they see him as a very formidable opponent. They didn't expect him to get this far, much less get the nomination. The GOP has decided that they better start on him now because he is on a roll.

[NNN0LHI]

14. If Kerry had every single delegate, but dropped out of the race for...

...unexpected medical reasons like a relapse of prostrate cancer would we still have to nominate him at the convention? Of course not. My point is that after Gary Hart was exposed during his presidential campaign he was gone yesterday. Do you think politicians and unions would still be supporting him if this was a real story? I don't think so. They would switch to Dean, Edwards, or someone else so quick all of our heads would be spinning. And Kerry would have left in shame. This is smoke and mirrors. I don't think even Fox news is reporting this story? I may be wrong but I am pretty sure it would have been posted here by now if they were. What you you think?

Don

[Gman]

18. With the caveat that something could happen to knock Kerry out of the race

similar to what happened to Hart, then yes, it's still not a sure thing that Kerry has the nomination. Should that happen, I'm sure Kerry would release all of his delegates. I believe Kerry may have the right to commit his delegates to the convention to a certain candidate, but I can't find anything in the Texas (on a state level, other states may be different) rules that backs that up. I don't have a copy of the national rules. If in fact Kerry can commit his delegates to another candidate, then the convention would still be locked up for whoever Kerry committed his delegates to. This didn't happen in '68 after Bobby was killed, but then again, he wasn't around to do it. I don't know of any precedent here. If Kerry delegates would be released from their committment to go with whoever they feel their constituents want, it may well be a brokered convention from the first vote. It would get pretty hairy at this point.

If Kerry delegates would be released, I would, for example, expect AFSCME to jump right back to Dean again. You may even see Clark, Gephardt et al jump back in. It could be complete chaos that would make the '68 convention look mild and well ordered.

I guess it could happen that some Dem candidate could be doing this to Kerry in order to try to get all his delegates released. Of course, there's no assurance that the candidate trying to torpedo Kerry would get those delegates. Such an approach wouldn't be different from saying, "I'm going to run the Titanic into that iceberg to stop it from going where I don't want it to go."

But I can also see that the ultimate GOP dirty trick would be to derail Kerry and cause complete chaos at the convention which would have the party in such disarray that there'd be little hope of getting it back together in time to mount an effective campaign in November.

But I still think ultimately, the GOP is trying to take some of the shine off Kerry's star as soon as possible rather than wait until its too late.

Frankly, I'm getting the feeling that the media would rather not go down that road again after Clinton. That would surprisingly include Fox by their lack of attention to the Drudge rumor. I am very surprised at Peter Jennings for alluding to it Friday. But in general I'm rather proud of the media that they didn't jump on this rumor like they would with Clinton. Maybe they learned something about getting manipulated.

[Renew Deal]

13. The fonda pic comes from a real scumbag.

McCain Fights Old Foe Who Now Fights Kerry
By MICHAEL JANOFSKY

Published: February 14, 2004


ASHINGTON, Feb. 13 — Senator John McCain came to the defense of a fellow Vietnam War veteran, Senator John Kerry, on Friday by attacking the credibility of a North Carolina veteran who has dedicated himself to defeating Mr. Kerry in his campaign for president.

Mr. McCain, an Arizona Republican, called the man, Ted Sampley, "one of the most despicable people I have ever had the misfortune to encounter."

Mr. Sampley, a businessman from Kinston, N.C., has gained some attention in recent days for operating a Web site devoted to attacking Mr. Kerry, a Massachusetts Democrat, for his opposition to the war in Vietnam after his military service. The Web site, www.vietnamveteransagainstjohn kerry.com, includes pictures from the 1970's showing Mr. Kerry at antiwar protests. One shows Mr. Kerry at a rally, sitting several rows behind Jane Fonda, who was so outspoken against the war that she was labeled a Communist by her political opponents.

In response to Mr. McCain's remarks about him, Mr. Sampley said in a telephone interview: "It's not the first time he said that. That's his opinion. It's unbecoming of a senator to say things like that, but I'm fair game just like he is."

In 1993, Mr. Sampley was convicted of misdemeanor assault and sentenced to 180 days' probation for attacking a legislative aide to Mr. McCain.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/14/politics/campaign/14VET.html

[NNN0LHI]

15. Sounds like the perfect kind of morAn to send some phony pics to

He would be sure to splash them all over the internet before finding out if they were bogus. Rove is too smart for that stuff. See what I mean? I am not saying I am right. But you just never really know about this stuff. All I know for sure is if some ditto head ever says to me "hey, did you see them photos of Kerry with Fonda"? I will answer with "oh, do you mean those faked photos that some whack job Photoshopped and put all over the net"?

Don

[mzmolly]

17. Unfortunately there is a tell all interview in the archives of a US tele

network.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004072203,00.html

I just hope the interview doesnt come to light in October.

[emulatorloo]

21. Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them - Page 3

Isn't this whole pattern (Drudge to Fox Rush to Wash Times) just pretty standard operating procedure????

Franken re Fox News Washington Times, New York Post, Editorial pages of WSJ,Talk Radio:

"The members of the right-wing media . . .employ a tried-and-true methodology. First, they concoct an imflammatory story that serves their political goals. . .They repeat it. . .They embellish it. . .They try to push it into the mainstream media. All too often they suceed. . .Occasionally, they fail. . .But even thier failures serve their agenda, as evidence of liberal bias. Win-win. You got to admit. It's a good racket."

[NNN0LHI]

23. That is exactly what Drudge reported with no names, sources, or quotes

The only thing different in the story that you link is the bit about no one believing her? So Fox news sent a reporter to her house with a camera and even they were not able to collaborate and therefore didn't buy the story themselves since December? So where is the story there? If you see something I don't, why don't you cut and paste a quote from someone with a name saying something in quotation marks about this being true. If you can't do that you are doing nothing but rumor mongering. Why would you do that? See? Maybe my original theory is proving out already?

Don

[WiseMen]

20. So Club of Growth Did NOT Attack Dean and Dems before IOWA?

Don't underestimate the fear of Kerry. The underlying numbers
are very bad in a Kerry/Bush matchup. For whatever reason, Kerry
appeals to constituencies Rove was counting on.

[NNN0LHI]

24. I didn't mention the Club of Growth. I don't understand your question? n/t

[jeter]

25. Didn't Bush Senior leak Jennifer Flowers before NH in 92?

What sense would that have made?

It's the exact same MO.

Kerry leads Bush for the first time and then suddenly out of the blue he has a girlfriend.

A story which may or may not even be true.

It's the intern aspect that I suspect they believed would hurt Kerry.

But according to every story I have read: there wasn't even an affair.

Perhaps he propositioned her.

But even that I seriously doubt.

If true, this meant that Kerry would have propositioned a 24-year-old intern months after Bill Clinton was impeached for the same thing.

Kerry couldn't possibly be so stupid.

I think he offered her a job. She thought Kerry had other interests and declined.

She told her father and he now thinks he is a "scumbag" or whatever he said about him.

This story has no legs.

Just innuendo.

[BruinAlum]

26. STATEMENT FROM WOMAN ABOUT SENATOR KERRY

Statement From Woman About Sen. Kerry

12 minutes ago

By The Associated Press

A statement released Monday by Alexandra Polier, who has been the subject of rumors linking her to Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites):



"For the last several days I have seen Internet and tabloid rumors relating to me and Senator John Kerry. Because these stories were false, I assumed the media would ignore them. It seems that efforts to peddle these lies continue, so I feel compelled to address them. I have never had a relationship with Senator Kerry, and the rumors in the press are completely false. Whoever is spreading these rumors and allegations does not know me, but should know the pain they have caused me and my family. I am in Kenya with my fiance visiting his family, and we ask that the press respect our privacy and leave all of us alone."


A statement by Terry and Donna Polier, the parents of Alexandra Polier:


"We have spoken to our daughter and the allegations that have been made regarding her are completely false and unsubstantiated. We love and support her 100 percent and these unfounded rumors are hurtful to our entire family. We appreciate the way Senator Kerry has handled the situation, and intend on voting for him for president of the United States."


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040216/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_polier_statements&cid=694&ncid=2043

CAN WE PUT THIS TO REST NOW??

[Tinoire]

27. This has been the feeling over at FR also for the past week

and there are numerous posts and threads to that effect. They smell a big rat in this story because of the timing and now the bizarre denial & endorsement from a family that was supposedly talking and a girl who supposedly did an interview before leaving the country.

Too many Dem names involved in this before it was "leaked" too.