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Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 06:43 AM
Original message
Hillary Clinton and being female in America
Edited on Wed Jun-13-07 06:44 AM by Alamom
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070612/OPINION/70609026


Hillary Clinton and being female in America

By MARIE COCCO

June 12, 2007


>
Maybe Hillary Rodham Clinton didn't need the Supreme Court -- Lord knows, not this Supreme Court -- to remind people of the extraordinary historical moment her candidacy represents. But now the court's right-wing majority has decided that it doesn't matter if women are paid less than men who do the same job, year after year -- even decade after decade.

>
Employers who've been found to discriminate early in a woman's career can't be held liable for the subsequent years she's underpaid, the high court ruled recently. Only if a woman finds out, pretty much as soon as it happens, that she's being paid less for the same work -- then takes action within 180 days -- can she sue. And if this pay gap goes undetected for several years, compounding annually as raises are based on a percentage of the woman's lower pay? Tough luck.


>
Then this March, Clinton promoted comprehensive ``paycheck fairness'' legislation that anticipated a crucial difficulty that was illuminated by the Ledbetter case. Because an individual worker's pay is generally not made public, few women can discern when they are being paid less than their male counterparts. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg points out in her dissent to the Supreme Court decision that a third of private-sector employers prohibit workers from discussing their wages with co-workers. Clinton's bill calls for, among other things, a prohibition on businesses retaliating against employees who share salary information. If you don't know you're being discriminated against you can't do a thing about it -- which is, apparently, how the majority of the Supreme Court wants it.



Not much about Clinton's effort got attention. These ``women's issues'' don't involve a celebrity pregnancy or an anorexic actress or even the exhausting argument over abortion. Even when Clinton does draw news coverage for her work on matters that concern women, it almost always comes with the caveat that she is stroking her political ``base,'' a sneer that reduces women to a special-interest group. Hint to political reporters: Women are a majority of Democratic primary voters, and a majority of voters in the electorate as a whole.


It is not that men do not support fairness for women -- Clinton's forthcoming measure to correct the new timing problem set by the Supreme Court ruling is likely to be co-sponsored by Democratic Sens. Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts and Tom Harkin of Iowa, among others. The broader Paycheck Fairness Act also has men as co-sponsors. But neither Clinton's legislative agenda, nor even the prescience of it, is what makes her first-woman-who-could-become-president candidacy novel.


What sets her apart is that she gets it.





edit to add link
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. YES! Clinton was all over that like white on rice. Quickly too! Coco's great. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 06:48 AM
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2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. warmongering? "If President Bush doesn't end this war, I will." -HRC
"This is George Bush’s war, and it’s his responsibility to end it before he leaves ... But if he doesn’t end it, as president I will.” -Hillary Clinton

www.qctimes.com/articles/2007/03/27/news/state/doc4608a7c4990c2492494411.txt - 34k -
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. She may call it ending the war
but she wants us there for another decade or so.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/15/clinton.troops/index.html
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
31. Your link doesn't support your insinuation.

You: "She may call it ending the war but she wants us there for another decade or so."
She:
Clinton said the American troops would not play a role in trying to curb sectarian violence.

Rather, they would be positioned north of Baghdad to combat terrorists, support the Kurds, counter any Iranian moves into Iraq and provide logistical, air and training support to the Iraqi government "if the Iraqis ever get their act together."

"If there is not any political resolution, the civil war will continue and we need to get out of the way," she told the Times


Another poster called her "warmongering," such hyperbole and other misrepresentations serve no constuctive purpose.

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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Read the fine print. For The Devil's in the details - she'll keep troops as targets in Iraq.
I don't trust HRC. :thumbsdown:
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
32. "she'll keep troops as targets in Iraq" see my post above ^
"she'll keep troops as targets in Iraq" is just more irrational hyperbole.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Hillary makes me proud of my gender.
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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I've always been proud of my gender
nevertheless, every election I vote against Collins and Snowe because I disagree with their policies. I would hope that men who look at candidates do so with an open mind.

As for Sen. Clinton: she has decided that she is the second coming of Margaret Thatcher who would never get my vote.

I'm looking for a candidate who will put the country first. That is not by any measurement Sen. Clinton.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. "I've always been proud of my gender"
Really??? Not me. Some make me sick
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Do you have a link or is that just your opinion?
Edited on Wed Jun-13-07 08:07 AM by William769
"she has decided that she is the second coming of Margaret Thatcher". I thought so. :eyes:
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Exactly. This is the thing I can't stand about the haters
They just make up shit, and they do it all the time

It's like saying,"I hate the Easter Bunny, ever since he totaled my car."


Yes indeed, this country is chock full of delusional nuts.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. This new meme about Margaret Thatcher..
There isn't one of the detractors that can expound on what their perceptions are of the similarities between Thatcher and Clinton. I've read both biographies and found no similarities whatsoever. However, far be it from me to point out irrational thinking to those of the brainwashed set who prefer throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Hillary has my unconditional support and my vote.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. And the biographies were probably written by men!!!!! nt
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. Thatcher's biography was very stark and unforgiving..
Why do people continue to flaunt how much 'they don't know' by repeating the same BS talking points that the "collective" has determined a detrimental flaw?

When in reality, Thatcher couldn't hold a candle to Hillary's ability and accomplishments!
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. Well said, Donna.
We may be women, but we have issues beyond our vaginas.

(Hope that wasn't too crass.)
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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Semantic over-load
It sounds crass but how else does one describe this pressure: Vote for Hillary! She's a woman!!!!

Vagina politics.

If males were saying: I won't vote for so-and-so because they're a woman, we'd be outraged with good cause. Now this embarassingly stupid attitude.

Oh please, give me strength. This is like some mental exercise during the Stone Age.

Period need to be judged on the quality of their character and their ideas. Period. When those ideas including sending soldiers to die for lie that you knew was a lie, then count me out. And then we can always bow down to NAFTA, the China Free Trade policy, and some new way to shovel huge amounts of tax-payer money into the coffers the insurance industry.

I'm at work now, or I'd write more. Like the Sunday morning Sen Clinton was shilling for bush on MTP.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. I have never once heard someone say to vote for her
because she is a woman

The haters may have something interesting to say, but I

tune them out because they always start off with a lie.

But I am sorry to hear the Easter Bunny stole your car.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. Overall, I like HRC
I would prefer a Leftie to run and win, but that isn't going to happen. I would also like Gore to run, which also probably won't happen. The spleen directed at Senator Clinton confounds me. I understand disagreeing and disliking her, but she garners more hatred on this site than RON PAUL. Ugh. Clinton could save a bagful of drowning kittens and still be attacked.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. When she becomes our nominee
Your going to see massive amounts of EHS here! :rofl:
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. She's not among my top 4 prefered candidates, but I don't 'get' the anger about her. nt
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. See? This is the perfect response
Even if you said, "I really can't stand her, but I don't 'get' the anger about her," it's still the perfect response.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. I support Clark, Richardson, Dodd and, perhaps, Gore first, but...
Edited on Wed Jun-13-07 08:51 AM by MookieWilson
the stuff people say about her just stuns me. On both the right and the left.

Yes, she's 'ambitious' and 'aggressive'. Most people in the Senate are. So was her husband. Hell, so was FDR. It's okay for her to be that way.

No, she's not a war-monger. Read her statement when she made the IWR vote.

Yes, she needs to explain why she accepted money from the pharmaceuticals lobby. We need to find out how many other candidates accepted this money also, they've got enough to give to everyone who's viable.

And I give her, Richardson, Gore and Dodd credit for being interested in the process of governing. Not just showing up at a meeting, making an announcement, and leaving. These folks all believe in government and understand and respect its process. THAT's one of the problems with the current administration.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. The anger directed at HRC comes from
our misogynist culture. Even the most Lefty of the Leftists have certain deeply ingrained biases against women being the boss....and to have a woman as the boss of the entire United States of America...well, that is just too much to bear.

I don't think the majority of people realize how our culture is 'programmed' starting at birth to treat women as LESS or as object....or as maids. And there are not that many men who really want to take the time to look our culture to see the bias that is so strongly brainwashed into their minds. The misogyny is so pervasive and accepted that it's just not questioned. It's like not seeing the forest for the trees. Women are girls...and men are men. 'Boy' is a derogatory term.

We raised the consciousness of many men back in the '60's and '70's, but many of those decided that they preferred being the boss and keeping the women in their 'place.' They wanted to keep the power. And we're seeing that now....behind all of that anger for HRC, is hatred for a woman not in her place....but few will cop to that.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Go to a Trek board and see the crap written about Janeway. nt
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Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. I agree. even though I want to believe our society has progressed
more than it has in the last 30-40 years, especially all non-conservatives.



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Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
13. I want to see a Woman become our president. Just not this particular Woman. n/t
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Sure you do
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. I have noticed something about myself....
the more people spew at HRC, the more I defend her...and I've ended up convincing myself that she is certainly someone I could vote for.

I wish she were more Lefty, however...and the Clinton's past affiliation w/ the DLC bugs me. But Nov. of 2008 is a ways off....lots can happen between now and then.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Hey, YOU, yeah, YOU, stop reading my mind!!! Out! nt
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. I think she is more left than she lets on and the thing I keep in mind
is, she is always the smartest person in the room.

I also defend her a lot more than I ever intended,

mostly because I can't stand the unbelievable ignorance.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
33. HRC has spent a lot of her career working for the rights of women and children.But misogyny is alive
and well in this country -- and very much in power.

Each and every issue that I care about personally in politics has at one time or another been marginalized and diminished as a "woman's issue." My interests are pretty broad, so it's spooky to realize that.

Women are 51% of the population, but we don't hold the reins of power. When exceptional women rise to the top in non-traditional jobs and challenge the status quo they are demonized.

Bush-women not only do not challenge the status quo, they eagerly serve the far-right power structure as high IQ handmaidens -- so they are lauded as long as they are useful. Condi Rice and Harriet Meiers are among the most prominent.

Hillary is a strong and intelligent woman. Very early on she was targeted by conservatives and in their eyes she can do nothing right.

Every trait that would be admired in a man is portrayed as a negative in her. Her excellent analytical ability? -- she's cold and calculating. Her forthright manner? -- she's abrasive. Her continuing legislative work on behalf of women and children? -- she's pandering to her base, a narrow constituency by implication. Her faithfulness to her straying husband? -- his infidelity is her fault because she's a lesbian, and she stays married to him because she loves power. Her reticence about her Methodist church beliefs? -- she must be an unbeliever.

For the umpteenth time, I simply cannot fathom why DUers continue to tear her down on behalf of Karl Rove and the rest of those SOBs. She doesn't walk on water -- but she sure can swim fast, and she's one of ours.

Hekate

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