Does Bill and Hillary owe their legacy to John Edwards?

[jcrew2001]

If John Edwards didn't save Bill Clinton from impeachment, several things would have happened. Bill and Hillary owe John Edwards big time, I wonder if they've ever thanked him.

If Bill is impeached and resigns:
1) Gore becomes president, may beat Bush
2) Bill is disgraced, makes less on books and speeches, never becomes head of UN
3) Hillary is disgraced, never gets elected Senator of NY, and never runs for president
4) Hillary moves back to Chicago, runs for Senate in 2004, gets elected to Senate

Edwards changed the course of History, like the butterfly effect!

[napi21]

1. I don't understand. Are you saying the Senate vote was only one against conviction?

I don't think that was the case.

[jcrew2001]

2. Huh? He gave the closing arguments in the impeachment hearing

and convinced the republicans not to impeach.

[Alexander]

5. The Republicans didn't have the votes - this is a crock of shit.

Even if they all voted along party lines, Clinton would've been acquitted. There were too many Democrats in the Senate to convict.

[Tellurian]

21. They didn't have the evidence to convict!

The perjury charge never met the threshold of High Crimes an Misdemeanors.

[Alexander]

24. I never thought I'd ever actually agree with you.

:wow:

[Tellurian]

27. haha! It was just a matter of time.. :)

[Prophet 451]

60. And if I remember rightly

I seem to remember that impeachment preperations had already begun before the perjury charge ever came to light (yes, it really was all about a blowjob).

[wyldwolf]

31. several factors convinced the GOP not to convict - like lack of votes...

... public opinion... Larry Flynt...

[ElizabethDC]

3. Yeah, I mean, I know Sen. Edwards played a big role

but was he really the deciding factor in Bill not being impeached or resigning?

[Nedsdag]

4. He was one of two Democratic Senators

who interviewed Monica Lewinsky during the impeachment and he gave a stirring speech to his Democratic Senate colleagues that practically saved Clinton's bacon.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nedsdag]

39. Calm down.

Yes, they didn't have the votes to convict and yes the charges were bogus; however, you cannot deny the fact that Edwards did make a stirring speech clearing Clinton.

[Tellurian]

41. I'm very calm- I might be considered too calm.

I'll tell you what I think of his speech. Edwards broke it down so that even first graders could grasp the concept. Which really worked well for the Republicks. He chose the right venue to demonstrate the consensus of the senate's verdict. Although, this tactic wouldn't paint a very palatable picture if and when the WH criminals are Impeached. Lady Justice would be stooped over supporting herself with a bowing crutch on the Guilty side, waving a white flag with her off hand begging for relief.

[smalll]

56. But isn't that all he has really been doing well, ever since his days in front of juries?

( you: )

"however, you cannot deny the fact that Edwards did make a stirring speech..."

[Nedsdag]

58. So blowing up what I said makes you feel happier?

Well, c’est la vie!

[Adelante]

6. That explains it

:rofl:

[mtnsnake]

7. WTF are you talking about? Edwards didn't save him from shit. Clinton WAS impeached

You've got quite the imagination!

[Catchawave]

10. Also, charged with perjury and obstruction of justice...

read the transcript I posted below.

[Catchawave]

8. Here's the transcript of that speech:

http://edition.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/12/senate.statements/edwards.html

[primative1]

13. I never knew that ...

Thanks for sharing ....

[bling bling]

28. Thanks. That was pretty interesting. Edwards did very well. n/t

[jsamuel]

32. Thanks for the link, good read.

[illinoisprogressive]

9. I do hope they are nice to him and have thanked him.

I never thought about the fact that it was Edwards who saved Bill. Only thing, Obama still wins the senate here.

[Tellurian]

26. What does this mean?

"Only thing, Obama still wins the senate here."

?

[BootinUp]

11. Ground Control To Major Tom

This is Major Tom to ground con-trol, I'm stepping through the door
And I'm floating in the most peculiar way
And the stars look very difeerent today

For here am I sitting in a tin can, far above the world
Planet Earth is blue and there's nothing I can do

[bellasgrams]

12. Saved Clinton

What have you been smoking.

[Alexander]

14. Edwards didn't "save" Clinton from anything. Come back to earth.

The Republicans didn't have enough votes to convict in the Senate. What Edwards did was nice but in no way did it save Clinton from being removed.

[smoogatz]

15. On the other hand, if Kerry had picked a better running-mate

he might be president today. Hmmmm.....

[Alexander]

17. Or if voters had picked a better nominee...

*cough* *cough* Dean/Clark *cough* *cough*

We'd have some nice new Supreme Court justices if that were the case.

[smoogatz]

18. Right you are. n/t

[The Count]

It's not as if voters had the opportunity - by the time I got to vote, only the dregs

were left in the race (still voted Clark).
That being said, Kerry won and one day, if we'll be really, really good, the candidates we voted for in 2004 will tell us about that.

[Alexander]

23. I didn't have the opportunity either - but I still voted for Dean.

Once Kerry won that upset in Iowa, it was all over - so I guess I should've said "Iowa caucus voters".

I too think Kerry probably won that race. Ohio was just as shady as Florida was in 2000, plus we had DREs to deal with.

I remember seeing Bush at rallies during the race, and apart from there being far fewer attendees, he just didn't look like his heart was in it.

Electronic voting machines are still a problem - they didn't disappear just because we won 2006.

[mtnsnake]

35. If Howard Dean didn't mysteriously get screwed, we'd be looking forward to his 2nd term right now

Something just wasn't right in the state of denmark during those primaries. Dean had all the momentum in the world going for him and there's no way one single scream should've put the end to him. No way.

I would have loved watching Howard Dean totally cream Bush in a general election.

[smoogatz]

37. Maybe.

Dean's Dem rivals were having considerable success painting him as a far-left whacko--the scream was just the clincher. The media found him irascible and curiously insistent that they, you know, do their jobs--so of course they disliked him. I think the DLC machine picked Kerry for us before the primaries even got going, and the media were happy to transcribe the narrative.

[Alexander]

45. He "mysteriously" got screwed by the mainstream media.

CNN played a clip of the scream over and over and over and over, only to turn around and say "we think we played that scream clip too much, we're so sorry" once it was guaranteed Dean wasn't going to win the nomination.

They targeted him because he wanted to regulate the media and because Gore had just endorsed him.

It used to be that our candidates would get assassinated. Now that practice has been replaced by character assassination.

[mtnsnake]

54. The media did go way overboard, but

when I heard the scream myself, I just cringed. I was pulling for Howard right from the start, was elated at how well he was doing, and then the setback in Iowa...followed by the scream...well, I knew that was one moment that Howard Dean wishes he could go back and change. He did look really frazzled and the stinking media was no help in the matter. The whole thing was just weird and tragic. Howard Dean should be president. I'd rather see him run again than Al Gore, not to say that I don't like Gore or anything.

[Adelante]

51. Momentum is one thing

But Kerry did have the organization by that time. They hit the ground running in Iowa. I give him credit (and Kennedy) for that.

[MonkeyFunk]

53. He came in third in Iowa

before "the scream".

There's nothing suspicious about the Iowa Caucuses, unless you can think of a way to rig people standing in various corners of a room.

[jcrew2001]

49. If President Gore beat Bush in 2000, he would win re-election

in 2004 easily. Clinton resigns and Gore becomes President, like Ford.

[smoogatz]

52. Why should Clinton have resigned?

For trying to cover up an affair? What a laughable idea--especially in the current context.

[JI7]

16. Clinton WAS impeached

Republicans never had the votes to convict in the Senate.

[OHdem10]

47. Little known fact

While all the hulla-balue was taking place in the House,
Senator Lott went to Senator Daschle and quietly told him...
Do not worry, No matter what happens in the House of Rep.
it will never pass here. Daschle explained this on C-Span
just before the last election.

To Convict on Impeachment there has too be some Bi-Partisan
cooperation.

The Repubs were in charge. I am not here to defend GOP
but this is worth noting.

[The Count]

19. Edwards also saved us from going to war with Iraq...and Federal abortion ban

and bankruptcy law...and repeated airings of American Idol...and election theft 2004.
In fact, life as we know it, would probably have ceased to exist if not for Edwards....

[MODemocrat]

20. All Democrats except one voted against impeachment

How did John Edwards single-handedly save Bill Clinton from impeachment? Seriously....... :think: :think: :think:

On edit: I should have said: Expel-not impeachment; fact is he was impeached (for lying under oath
about how he did or did not use Monica's body parts.) :crazy: :silly: :blush:

[FrenchieCat]

25. True that Saint John helped and did his part.....like a good saint should!

however......
1. Saint Gore saved Bill Clinton by standing by him publicly during those dark days.
2. Saint Clark saved Bill Clinton by winning a war for him while Bill was answering Blue Dress Questions.
3. Saint Hillary saved Bill Clinton by standing by him during those difficult hours.
4. Saint American people saved Bill clinton by keeping his approval ratings way up there while this was going on.
5. Saint congresspeople saved bill Clinton by not voting for conviction.

Bill Clinton was and is blessed, that's for sure! Cause if everything would have played out differently, Bill Clinton would still be burning in hell to this day! Amen!

[AtomicKitten]

29. Blessed he is.

[Adelante]

34. My babeeeee!

Ain't nothin like the Big Dawg.

[The Count]

36. Let's not forget Saint Bob Guccione who dug dirt of the impeachers and exposed

their hypocrisy for all to see - causing numerous resignations in the House

[Edgeoforever]

43. I think you meant Larry Flint - or Saint Flint for the purposes of this discussion

:shrug:

[The Count]

44. Oops! I need to get my pornohraphers (and saints) in order!

Good catch.

[wyldwolf]

30. this is wrong on so many fronts

[The Count]

33. I bookmarked as symptomatic of a certain bunch here....I'll whip it up when

other "miracles" shall be sighted (as they are bound to be)

[Catchawave]

38. In that case, for the record....

On Eve of Clinton Impeachment Vote, John Edwards Spoke Brilliantly, Compellingly
29-Feb-04
John Edwards
Newsday reports: "The night before the Senate impeachment vote, John Edwards condemned Bill Clinton for showing 'remarkable disrespect' for 'the moral dimensions of leadership.' Then, he pivoted, sifted through the evidence, and drove holes in the case. Edwards, in office for just a month, threw out the speech his aides wrote and crafted his own on a legal pad as he waited in the back of the chamber full of senators for the rare, closed-door session.' Edwards' frank, powerful statement 'were as audacious as they were telling about why Edwards remains the final serious candidate blocking John Kerry's sprint to the Democratic nomination. That evening, Edwards addressed Senate titans of both parties, some prickly, many with decades of seniority; any one of them could have judged him impertinent, or simply dismissed him. Instead, he was widely praised...Said Sen. Patrick Leahy, 'He held their attention, both those for and against impeachment. He was brilliant.'"


http://archive.democrats.com/preview.cfm?term=John+Edwards

[karynnj]

40. That entire article is over the top

The vast majority of Senators clearly looked at the issue independendly. Many, such as Feingold, Levin, and Leahy, are constitutional lawyers far more respected than Edwards. Do you seriously think that the Democratic Senators made their decision after Edwards spoke. You can read the statements that other Senators gave in the Senate record. Each gave his or her reasons for voting as they did. The Senate was not a typical jury that would be swayed by an eloquent lawyer.

To show how over the top this article is, it refers to Edwards as the last serious candidate blocking John Kerry's sprint to the nomination. This was written on February 29, 2004. At that point, Edwards had won South Carolina, Kerry had won Iowa, NH, AZ, NM, MO, DE, ND, MI, WA, ME, TN, VA, DC, NV, WI, HI, ID, and UT. Edwards was still in only because he hadn't conceded! The next primaries were on March 3. Kerry was over 20 points ahead of Edwards in the polls for many of the big states voting that day - such as NY, CA, and MA. How was Edwards really a serious opponent at this point? Kerry did win all the states that day and Edwards conceeded the obvious.

[The Count]

42. I wipe my ass with his Liebermanesque condemnation. And you watch too much Boston Legal

The entire condemnation was buying into GOP rhetoric that getting a BJ has something to do with leadership abilities. It is instead strictly between Bill and Hillary - and should have stayed that way.
Everyone who gave lip service to the hypocritical grandstanding of the Gingriches and the Delays can kiss my ass - brilliant closing arguments or not.
So, Edwards had a speech in the senate besides sponsoring the IWR. Big fucking deal! You guys lost all sense of proportion. He pretty much said what Joementum said. Again.

[Robeson]

55. Gore Vidal said it best....

...

"And the events that befell poor President Clinton were all done because he wanted healthcare for everyone in the country, so you get him on dalliance with Monica in the White House. A matter of no importance at all—and no one’s business at all, except his. And that was interesting because that was the impeachment of a president for something that he had done, which was fibbing about—did he know her in the biblical sense. So they say, “That’s perjury, we don’t want a liar for president.” Look what we’ve got now; we don’t get the truth—ever. This was all cooked up to destroy the most intelligent politician in the history of the United States. And like a fool, he agreed to answer the questions. If I were he I would have ordered Starr out of the White House, and said, “If you come back I’ll have you arrested.” It’s as simple as that. And he would have won anyway, as it was proved. There are times that you must stand up and your private life is private and public life is public."

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20060303_gore_vidal_sex_oscars/

[Edgeoforever]

46. John Edwards condemned Bill Clinton for showing 'remarkable disrespect' for 'the moral dimensions of

leadership"....Oh, my!:nopity:

[Adelante]

48. It's to vomit

It truly is. I will spare everyone the smilie.

[karynnj]

50. Here is definitive proof thet it was not Edwards speech

Before Edwards gave that speech, at least the following Democratic Senators had already read their statements - many of which were every bit as good as Edwards:
Feingold, Conrad, Murray, Johnson, Biden, Sarbanes, Kerrey, Lautenberg, Boxer, Cleland, Durbin, Levin, Moynihan, Kennedy, Harkin, Reid. Immediately following Edwards, the following Senators read well crafted speeches citing legal precedent, parts of the case, Greek scholars, and Victor Hugo. These speeches were not written in the minutes after Edwards speech - many were already released before the Senator read them. those Senators were: Akaka, Leahy, Dodd, Wellstone, Leiberman, Kerry, Hollings, Rockefeller, Drogan.

Because this such an unusual, important issue - dealing with sex, dishonesty and an attack on the presidency - reading all of them is fascinating because they tell a huge amount about each politician. In some ways, they show the most important values of each. I suspect if 30 people here read all of them - there might be as many as 20 to 30 favorite speeches. (I ran out of time before reading all of them - but I think I will go back.

The speeches are in the Senate record on -

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/r106query.html

This is a query - choose the 106 congress, select any Senator key words - Clinton impeach limit time to Feb 1999. The Feb 12 entry has many pages of speeches. (It will not surprise anyone that I loved Kerry's :) ) But everybody's mileage will vary - The key is that these are US Senators and they likely wrote these speeches weeks before.

[Catchawave]

61. Did they use notes ?

Edwards threw out his notes after listening to those speeches. He was the cream that rose to the top :D

Weren't you supporting Harris Miller over Jim Webb in '06? How did that turn out?

[tammywammy]

57. No, the Clinton's don't "owe" Edwards

[incapsulated]

59. Bill Clinton Save the World From a Nuclear Holocaust!

Because, you know, he was against that and then it didn't happen!