I will say it.

[janx]

I'm not afraid to say it now.

The leaders of the DLC, which is not (by the way) an official organ of the Democratic party, have trashed Dean--ironically to the detriment of real democracy. Power trippers are comfortable and do not want to lose their positions; this is understandable, but this is not democracy.

Many of us have been against Kerry because of his baggage, which is only now being vetted by what most people consider legitimate American media. We knew this would happen from the start, but why, oh why, oh f***ing why did not the leaders of the DLC or other D.C. insiders see this ahead of time?

I suppose this is a little like saying that some of us saw the lie of the Iraq war well ahead of time, while some of us did not.

WE HAVE A VERY CORRUPT GOVERNMENT.

Unless we address this now (and even if we do), I'm afraid that our kids and grandkids are in serious trouble.

"Front loading" this primary is a huge mistake. How can we determine which candidate would be most effective if we rush to judgment? This is more of a power ploy than an effective tactic to oust the Chimp.

I hope everyone will take time to think about this.

[RichM]

1. Re: "WE HAVE A VERY CORRUPT GOVERNMENT"

Oh, you've noticed this, have you?

[quinnox]

2. We have a corrupt government?

Say it isn't so!

[janx]

11. On all sides. I've had it. n/t

[Straight Shooter]

3. Patience, Janx, let us see what the morning brings

But you have a point. It isn't like anybody is going to actually be surprised if the story is true. I haven't heard one defense raised along the lines of, "That just isn't possible. He isn't like that!"

None of us will ever escape the shadow of our past.

[janx]

13. That guy has so much baggage that I cannot believe he

would be the darling of the DLC.

But they are into power, I suppose.

[Gringo]

4. Dean wrecked his own campaign

He lost Iowa BEFORE his "Scream", and since has resorted to bitter, petty attacks on Kerry, instead of laying out his grand vision for the country.

Dems want someone who can beat Bush. We want the party to change, as Dean has called for, but tearing down specific other dems (especially likely presidential nominees, and powerful sennators who Dean would have to work with if HE were elected) is NOT constructive.

Good riddance to Dean and his once-noble campaign that went so awry.

[nancyharris]

6. Huh?

<"We want the party to change,">

And just how do you think Senator Kerry will change the party?

[Gringo]

61. I don't expect that Kerry will "change the party" at all.

But if he has some coattails, we'll be in a position to really revers some of the most egregious parts of the Bush agenda, and if we stay fired up, we'll be able to to things like stop media consolidation, re-implement the fairness doctrine so that we can get our message (unfiltered by right-wing spin) out. As things stand, our party is doomes because whether it is true populist or corporate whore, either way, the rightwing media are so dominant that we are at a distinct disadvatage unless we have a candidate with "magic" a la Clinton.

I don't know if what I'm saying makes sense, but boil it down to this: The party needs to be in a position of SOME power if we're going to change it. Changing an irrelevant party that has all the right rhetoric and all the purest motives, but no political power is pointless.

[Mairead]

63. "But if he has some coattails..."

Which the DLC has already proven it doesn't. Under Clinton -- Mr DLC, The Big Dawg -- the Dems lost seats.

[Guaranteed]

7. We haven't torn them down. They ABDICATED.

They weren't there for us. They destroyed themselves.

[madfloridian]

10. Well, let me count the ways.

That the attacks went on Dean pre-Iowa. I remember debates, where he was ganged up on by all of them. He held his own with class.

I remember reading of some of the Osama ads? Ever hear of those? I do believe that was leading up to Iowa. We have a daughter in Iowa, and there was some ugly calling going on and some nasty flyers being distributed.

Dean did no worse than what was being done to him.....considering the Osama ad....not nearly as badly as was done to him.

He has a right to go after his opponents. They went after him when he was leading.

[janx]

14. Dean didn't wreck ANYTHING.

He created an awareness that was not present before.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[janx]

50. HORSESHIT

Let the others try to derail democracy--

It's not going to work.

[Malikshah]

66. Wrecked???

No grand vision laid out?

Did you ever hear one of his speeches, read his stance on the issues?

Or did folks just listen like good little lemmings to the media memes?

That's whas was being spouted in that last message--a pure and simple meme.

sheesh. It's the 21st century and folks still aren't capable of arguing on the issues.

[bobthedrummer]

5. I think there's been a neo-con coup of some type

but that's just me.

[WilliamPitt]

8. "to the detriment of real democracy"

Jesus.

Pardon me for having more respect for the people of Iowa, New Hampshire, Michigan, Washington, Virginia, Tennessee, Arizona, Missouri, New Mexico, Delaware, North Dakota and Maine.

[mzmolly]

How many states are there in the Union Mr. Pitt.?

;) I'd say it's best we take our time. 1500 plus delegates to go for Mr. Kerry.

[WilliamPitt]

15. So you'd say democracy has been well or poorly served to this point?

[mzmolly]

20. Id say were not finished *at this point*

.

[janx]

24. William! Please take this seriously.

It's not a matter of teams or some goddam thing. You are a gifted young man, and you have a real stake in this.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[janx]

21. Would you like to recount your meeting with the reporters

at Franken's apartment?


Perhaps we could repost that just one more time.

You are still a young man, and you have so much potential! Now Ritter is coming out with some stuff that you should pay attention to.

Pitt, be careful and thoughtful, please.

[WilliamPitt]

29. Wait a minute

You sling this shit at me: "Go with it if your daddy tells you to..."

and then expect to be able to lecture me? Your aged wisdom inspires after "Go with it if your daddy tells you to..."?

Please. Peddle your papers somewhere else.

[janx]

38. I don't have any political papers. That's the point.

I'm not trying to trash you.

I'm only trying to urge you to be honest and to watch your back.

[WilliamPitt]

40. Watch my back?

Maybe my 'daddy' will do it for me.

Spare me.

[janx]

42. Yes. And I don't mean it in a mean fashion.

You are still young, and you are talented. I mentioned the rest before.

[Straight Shooter]

26. You continue to believe in your candidate.

We continue to believe in ours. This is not a difficult concept to grasp, as one American to another.

Peace.

[WilliamPitt]

31. Is it possible to believe in *your* candidate

without shitting on democracy simultaneously?

Jesus Christ, I work for DENNIS KUCINICH. If anyone has a beef with democracy, it is us. Yet we still worship at that temple.

Get a grip. Damn.

[Straight Shooter]

33. I have a grip, and it's very steady

And I don't shit on democracy. Furthermore, I have never had anything but kind words to say about Dennis Kucinich.

Please, show us Dean supporters the same respect.

[Rich Hunt]

64. I guess people who don't vote ...

aren't really people.

[edzontar]

69. Tell me Will, has Kucinich pulled out yet?

Is he still running against Kerry and the others for the nomination?

By so doing, is he hurting the party and disrespecting the voters?

I am confused--please clarify....

[mzmolly]

9. I agree.

And, I might add, all this stuff about Kerry far outweighs a passionate campaign speech in Iowa...

[WilliamPitt]

12. The speech in Iowa actually happened. I saw it.

[mzmolly]

16. Did you see the *spun* version of the real version that did not include a

mike that tuned out crowd noise.

Additionally, wether you saw *it* or not, does not liken *it* to an affair, which we *generally* we dont *see* on film ;)

[seaglass]

62. You don't even get that it wasn't about the VOLUME.

I saw it live too.

[Eloriel]

18. Did you also see all the TV news regret their distortion of it?

Doesn't sound like it.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

22. The world saw it, Will.

The whole damn world saw it. I got emails from some friends in Europe who loved it. Even Letterman had said it was a tragic thing the way he was treated. It was.

There was nothing wrong with the speech. There is nothing wrong with anger. There is a lot more wrong with our country than there was with that speech.

[Straight Shooter]

28. That wasn't anger. That was passion.

Without passion, we might as well all roll over and play dead, like good little Democrats. If he had stood there and handed useless platitudes to his supporters, he would have been no different than any other neutral-personality politician.

So, here's to passion! Yeeaaarrrrgggghhhhh!!!

[madfloridian]

41. Amen!

They are taking the messenger's message, but they are shooting the messenger.

[JCMach1]

23. The good news is that this is hitting now... NOTHING

is decided at the moment.

I firmly believe this will sort itself out before 3/2

[Comadreja]

27. Bandwagon Politics

I'm not jumping on Kerry's bandwagon. Dean and only Dean has made me proud to be a Democrat. I will not "fall in line" until the contest is actually held. The longer Dean holds on, the more new voters get involved. Meanwhile, I keep writing letters. As long as Deans in the ring, I'm in there with him.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[rumguy]

32. What does your pooch think about Dean and the DLC?

[janx]

35. Huck likes democracy in our democratic republic--

but he sees it fading now.

[Straight Shooter]

39. Is that short for "Huckleberry Finn"?

Huck -- I love that name! Give ol' Huck a big scratch behind the ears and a biscuit treat for me, will ya?

[janx]

43. I have another dog named Finn...

She is a senior golden named Finnegan by my ex-husband.

So when Pamela White Hadas, one of my favorite mentors, urged me to adopt her girl's brother, I had to agree....

Pamela talked me into it.

So we had Finn...

and we should have had a literary name...(Pamela's names were always Shakespearian, and her dog was Portia)....

So............

HUCK

[rumguy]

44. What kind of dog is Huck - a Wiemer?

[janx]

46. Yes. His name is Huckleberry. Get ready for the

Weimar Republic.

[janx]

48. C'mon man, you are kidding.

You know.

He is a weimaraner, from the Weimar Republic.

That's where he is from.

Facists hate him, because he is from a free place in Europe, and he likes to run around and hunt.

[janx]

52. weimaraner. how timely!

[Straight Shooter]

45. That's great. I love dogs and I love dog stories.

Good night everyone

:loveya:

[janx]

53. i love you too. Finn the golden and Huck the weim are snoring

here too.

they are very American, and they like to swim.

[janx]

57. Guess what.

I wrote this months ago.

You are busted.

[janx]

54. I will always give Huck an ear scratch for you.

He will like that.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

36. Baggage now being vetted by "legitimate American media"???

You referring to Drudge?? Please tell me you are not seriously suggesting that you think "most people" consider Drudge a legitimate news source??

The idea behind the "front loading", if I understand it correctly, was to settle on a candidate early so that collective resources and energies could be combined to mount an early all out force against Bush and his formidable war chest.

Yes, the front loaded process has it's drawbacks for candidates who fall behind, because it doesn't allow much time between primaries to gain much traction or momentum. It could have gone another way, and Dean could have been the recipient of the initial momentum as well. I won't belabor that point.

I will agree that Dean has not ingratiated himself to the DLC or the DNC and neither of them wanted to see him get the nomination, I'm sure. But I don't agree the front loaded primary was a conspiracy theory against all the candidates. Even if they didn't like Dean, Kerry was all but written off for dead and any of the other candidates could have taken off as well. There was no way to foresee this.

[janx]

37. No. Some of us were waiting for this kind of thing to happen.

Kerry, I'm sorry to say, is not the best candidate to beat Chimpy.


We knew this. It was obvious.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

59. The majority of Democratic voters do not agree with you, I'm sorry to say.

Your saying "we knew this" or "it was obvious" over and over does not make it so. You ignore the facts.

He's getting the most support. He's getting the most votes. How you can possible say he's not the best candidate to beat Bush simply defies logic.

He's won 12 of 14 primaries. And it does no good to say other states have not voted yet. He's polling ahead, by AT LEAST double digits in most states.

Poll released by USA today showed Kerry beats Bush in head to head match by 57 to 43.

Wisconsin poll today showed Kerry with a 37-point lead over Edwards. (closest contender)

Here's some stats for the Super Tuesday states I did a couple days ago. These figures are about a week old, not to mention before Clark dropped out and threw his support behind Kerry, and likely have increased since then:

In California, Kerry has a 31-point lead over Dean

Kerry 49%
Dean 18%
Edwards 12%
Clark 8%
other 9%
undecided 5%

In New York, Kerry has a 33-point lead over Dean

Kerry 47%
Dean 14%
Sharpton 12%
Edwards 12%
Clark 5%
other 5%
undecided 6%

In Maryland, Kerry has a 32-point lead over Edwards, and 35-point lead over Dean

Kerry 47%
Edwards 15%
Dean 12%
Sharpton 10%
Clark 6%
other 4%
undecided 6%

In Ohio, Kerry has a 29-point lead over Dean

Kerry 44%
Dean 15%
Edwards 13%
Kucinich 7%
Clark 6%
Sharpton 5%
Lieberman 4%
other 3%
undecided 4%

In Georgia, Kerry has a 15% lead over Dean

Kerry 30%
Dean 15%
Edwards 15%
Sharpton 14%
Clark 9%
Lieberman 6%
other 5%
undecided 5%

Massachusetts has not been updated since November in this poll

http://www.pkarchive.org/2004DataCenter.html


So, while you insist Kerry can't possibly be the best candidate to beat Bush, and further propose that a candidate that cannot win a single primary can, it simply flies in the face of rational reasoning to me. I just don't see it. And the overwhelming majority of voting Democrats, Independents, and swing voters do not support your conclusions.

[Mairead]

67. "The idea behind the 'front loading'"...

if I understand it correctly, was to settle on a candidate early so that collective resources and energies could be combined to mount an early all out force against Bush and his formidable war chest.

Right. Like their decision to roll over on the invasion and massacre so they could concentrate on domestic issues. Uh-huh.

Another shrewd move by the DLC. 'Let's surrender to get opposition out of the way, so that we can concentrate on helping the GOP'

Move along folks, nothing to see here.

[Kool Kitty]

47. We have a very corrupt government?

:wow: I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you.....;-)

[janx]

49. Then do something about it!

Don't just support some other candidate; go out and do something!

[Kool Kitty]

51. Excuse me?

You have no idea what I am doing. I'm pissed off at this government, too. Excuse me...

[janx]

55. get rolling then

volunteer or do something now

[Kool Kitty]

56. I do volunteer.

Do you mean right this minute? Can I wait 'til morning? You know, I was kidding with you in my original post. I guess I didn't read the entire thread thoroughly enough. Jeez, I do volunteer, I do alot of things to try to change this situation. I beg a thousand pardons....

[janx]

58. It is amazing that everything looks so incredibly horizontal---

and I must remind anyone who cares about David Hadas that David is no longer with us.

But don't you dare blame Dean for this.

DON'T YOU DARE.

[janx]

60. God bless you guys for now.

I have to say my own prayers and volunteer.

[CWebster]

65. because

they would rather lose with one of their own than risk winning with an outsider who would shake up shop.

[bigtree]

68. I'll say it

No candidate is without 'Baggage'. Because of decency, some of us haven't gone into the cellar to dig up stale dirt on those we oppose. This is no way to get your candidate elected.

"There's always room at the top -- after the investigation."
-Oliver Herford