"No one quite resembles Roosevelt so much as Hillary Clinton"

[mtnsnake]

In Casting Her Own Shadow, historian Allida Black chronicles Eleanor Roosevelt's considerable---if often unacknowledged---influence on liberal politics. Throughout her adult life, Roosevelt campaigned for civil rights and women's issues, conducting a vigorous campaign of editorials in publications like Redbook and The New York Times to advance the causes she espoused. She enjoyed a huge following, Black notes, not least because her writing was commonsensical and good-humored, even when Roosevelt was clearly irritated.

Better known than her husband, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, when he entered national politics, Eleanor managed to keep her own identity even as his advisors urged her to keep a lower profile and stay out of the news. What bearing does all this have on the present? Well, this is a matter being played out even now in Washington, for no one quite resembles Roosevelt so much as Hillary Clinton, whose work as a politician and newspaper columnist echoes Roosevelt's---and who has been similarly reviled for expressing independent ideas.

Link at http://www.amazon.com/Casting-Her-Shadow-Allida-Black/dp/5557116877

Wow, that's quite a tribute to Hillary...and to Eleanor, too...how they're so often compared to one another by historians the world over, such as how the well-known historian, Allida Black, did here when she wrote this book.

Hillary sure picked a fine role model in Eleanor, didn't she.

[babylonsister]

1. Gimme a break. nt

[BayCityProgressive]

2. They were both influential

however, I think Eleanor took on more controversial issues. The right wing turned many small quotes from Hillary into controversy...but Eleanor took on some BIG taboos of the day. She helped found ADA for God's sake.

[SaveElmer]

3. The ADA...

Which give Hillary a 95% liberal rating!!!!

[BayCityProgressive]

5. yup

she consistantly gets high marks from them. I was simply pointing out what I saw as differences.

[loyalsister]

42. Not so sure.....

Hillary probably comes out in better standing on this one.

The Roosevelts have a place related to disability, but it is not quite as positive as many people think, because the great efforts to conceal his disability only furthered the mythology that it should be a source of shame.
A fallacy was also perpetuated. In pre-industrial agrarean societies members could not afford to not have disabled members work.
Industrialization shifted priorities so that our majority nondisabled culture and politics consented to the idea that it is so expensive to hire people with disabilities that we should not demand that there be an assumption that it would be within reason for the government to help us find a way to compete in the work force rather than support us altogether.

Hillary is closer to that step with health care, and is supporting ADA policies that have been driven by people with disabilities. She knows all about them because ADAPT showed up at the WH when she and Bill were there.

There were protests by a group called the "League of The Physically Handicapped" during the Roosevelt admin. because of a policy of the WPA to avoid hiring people with disabilities. They wound up securing several hundred jobs.
In order for disability to be included to Roosevelt's satisfaction, disabled language needed to include an inability to work. The League of The Physically Handicapped did not want that, however.

The Roosevelt's were simply too "class distanced" from most people with disabilities. Their solutions to such "problems" were to be "pampered to some extent. The reality that most people lived was to try to move on and live ordinary lives with alternate careers, etc was not something they could comprehend.

[Tellurian]

6. I remember Hillary saying ...

when she was First Lady, she felt Eleanor Roosevelt was her role model.

If anyone could emulate Mrs. Roosevelt, it would be Hillary.
They have many similar traits. From time to time, the History channel
airs historical footage of Mrs Roosevelt out there speaking on her husband's behalf.

She seemed to be an unusually strong woman blessed with a powerful presence in her stature alone.
She was powerful yet compassionate. When she spoke, everyone listened. At least, thats how she came across to me.

[Tellurian]

9. A few pic of Mrs. Roosevelt

a young Mrs. Roosevelt circa 1898


great link to The Roosevelt's bio:

http://www.usconstitution.com/franklindroosevelt.htm

[Tellurian]

11. A quick study of FDR's 1st and 2nd New Deals..

The First was for Relief

The Second was for Reform..

I can see the similarites to the present.

http://us.history.wisc.edu/hist102/lectures/lecture19.html

[mtnsnake]

10. Speaking of similar traits...

Did you know that after the death of her husband that one of their advisers suggested that she run for United States Senator for the state of NY?

[Tellurian]

12. No, I didn't know..

But I bet Hillary did. She knew if it was alright for Eleanor, it would be alright for her as well!

I'm sure Mrs. Roosevelt would be proud of Hillary for stepping up, throwing her hat in the ring
for the presidency, representing ALL women, as the First Women to run for the highest office in the Land.

Bravo!

[Adelante]

4. Heh

This one's really stretching it, mtnsnake :D

[mtnsnake]

8. Enjoy!

O8)

[Tellurian]

13. Great Pic of Eleanor in Riverside Park..

[LittleClarkie]

7. Why did I just picture her with a cigarette holder in her mouth

held at a jaunty angle.

[nealmhughes]

14. And an admiral's cape slung over her shoulders!

[Bucky]

45. Hillary charging up San Juan Hill! Bully!

"Speak blandly and carry a big warchest."

[JNelson6563]

46. Good one.

I love DU humor. :toast:

[leftofthedial]

15. it's the cigarette holder

[mtnsnake]

16. Yes, while past comparisons are usually made just between Hillary & Eleanor

...if elected president, many think Hillary will evolve into a combination of both Roosevelts...Eleanor and Franklin. Ahhhhhhhhh

:smoke:

[w4rma]

18. The Roosevelts pushed 'free' trade and helped destroy American livelihoods … in fantasy land. (nt)

[Morgana LaFey]

17. reviled for expressing independent ideas?????

I'm always terribly suspicious about that thought -- I've NEVER heard it except as a rightwing defense of someone spouting their own flawed ideologies, someone who shouldn't be (e.g., Clarence Thomas). And sure enough, Hillary's "independing ideas" are the ones that are kinda rightwing (and DLC-ish).

Sigh. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[bvar22]

19. Reminds me of the ReichWing scam to connect bush* with JFK.

If Eleanor and Franklin were alive today, they would be appalled by the slimy coziness of today's Democratic Party with CorpoAmerica's rich CEO's, and the abandonment of the Working Class and the Poor.


Yes, both Eleanor and Hillary are white women whose husbands were president, but deeper comparisons are laughable, cetainly in areas of honesty, integrity, and concern for Working Americans and the poor.

[dorktv]

25. *laughs* not really, Eleanor might have been but FDR was perfectly

okay with letting coporations keep going on as long as people were employed and all that.

For all of his so called "populist" ideals, he really was not that out there with changing things.

[Cha]

60. There was that Social Security

thingy that I for one am grateful.

[huskerlaw]

20. In her dreams, maybe

In reality? Not even close.

When was the last time she expressed an independent idea? Honestly. Serious question.

[roguevalley]

21. Eleanor had a history of work and greatness in her wake. Hillary

has a ways to go. Eleanor is one of my heroes and I don't see it.

[TwilightGardener]

24. Luv your wiener doggie!

[mtnsnake]

22. You don't think Hillary has expressed an independent idea lately?

How many women have you seen running for president? I'd say that's a pretty independent idea.

[huskerlaw]

23. You think she came up with the idea

to run for president independently? That's laughable.

[Tellurian]

26. Oh so, you 're taking credit for her idea...

I see!

[huskerlaw]

27. Uh...no

I did no such thing. And I challenge you to show me where I did.

But if you think she woke up one morning and came up with the idea out of thin air, all by herself, you're delusional.

[Tellurian]

32. Well, you Leftys blame everything on Bill..

I was expecting the usual response.

whatever...it's you're fault for trying to invent a fallacy.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tellurian]

39. I challenge you to step into any Kerry thread..

and find one not blaming Clinton for something..

[ProudDad]

64. No, not everything

just NAFTA, GATT, the welfare "reform act", the Telecommunications act of 1996 (giving away the rest of the store), Don't ask Don't tell, and 500,000 dead in Iraq...among a few other things.

But the bastard was sooooooooo charming!!! :evilgrin:

[mtnsnake]

30. I'm saying she's an independent woman, period

and it comes as no surprise that someone who's as independent as she is is loaded to the hilt with independent ideas. Ask anyone in my area of remote Northern NY if they think she has independent ideas or not and you'll find out.

You think she came up with the idea to run for president independently?

WTF?

[huskerlaw]

38. And yet, you can't seem

to come up with a single one.

Shocking.

[mtnsnake]

40. I guess that makes two of us

:shrug:

[bvar22]

29. Ahhh, that would be Carol Moseley Braun 2004

Democrat...Woman.....running for President......2004....remember?

[hughee99]

31. IIRC, Pat Schroeder had the idea 20 years ago.

She didn't stay in the race that long, though.

[Bucky]

47. Shirley Chisholm had it (and had it longer) 40 years ago.

[hughee99]

48. Good call! She's a little before my time. n/t

[ProudDad]

65. You beat me to it, I was thinking of Chisholm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Chisholm

http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/chisholm/

[Name removed]

28. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtomicKitten]

33. ***

[Jack Rabbit]

34. This is a joke, right?

(N)o one quite resembles Roosevelt so much as Hillary Clinton, whose work as a politician and newspaper columnist echoes Roosevelt's---and who has been similarly reviled for expressing independent ideas.

I would that were true. I, for one, would love to hear Hillary Clinton express some independent ideas instead of focus group tested platitudes. Perhaps if she did, it might be possible to vote for whithout holding one's nose.

[IndianaGreen]

35. Bush sees himself as George Washington and Truman, and now Hillary is an Eleanor Roosevelt

I rather think that this ridiculous statement is the result of Team Hillary's image makers rather than something that Hillary herself dreamed up. I say this because if Hillary did pick Eleanor Roosevelt as a role model, as the OP states, then she has failed miserably in this endeavor.

However, a cynic might point out that there is one parallel between Hillary and Eleanor. Both were married to notorious philanderers, and their marriage was one in name only. Eleanor had stopped being intimate with FDR decades earlier and, just as FDR had a long time affair with Lucy Mercer, Eleanor had a long lasting relationship (non-sexual perhaps) with another woman.

I strongly recommend to my fellow DUers that they read about the key role that Eleanor Roosevelt played in giving birth to the United Nations. Eleanor did not believe in "pre-emptive" wars or in wars of aggression. She was an anti-imperialist par excellence! Eleanor was also decades ahead of the Democratic Party, and her husband, when it came to racism. Eleanor opposed segregation and, were she alive today, she would be a strong supporter of LGBT rights including marriage rights.

[mtnsnake]

36. ooh la la

Hot and steamy stuff!

[ddeclue]

41. Oh stop it already... that's preposterous...

Hillary is at best a poor imitation... All that she worries about is advancing her own career...she's just another "Bidencrat"..

Give me Edwards any day!

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[ShortnFiery]

43. To add insult to injury, this is a recycled topic from a week ago.

Naughty Naughty ... and no, we still do not buy it. :eyes:

[Hippo_Tron]

44. She's by far the strongest first lady since Eleanor Roosevelt, but I think the comparison ends there

Eleanor Roosevelt spent most of her time as first lady nagging her husband to take on issues that he initially deemed too politically controversial.

If Hillary Clinton were Eleanor Roosevelt she would've been nagging Bill Clinton to legalize Gay Marriage, end the drug war, enact single-payer health insurance, and do every other thing that Stan Greenberg and later Dick Morris told him that he couldn't do because it didn't poll well. Instead, she made the first call to Dick Morris after the GOP won in 1994.

Hillary is way too much of a pragmatist and too politically ambitious in her own right to be Eleanor Roosevelt.

[catgirl]

49. Eleanor Roosevelt advanced causes she espoused

Eleanor Roosevelt hired an all black band to play at a White House
event. The DAR (Daughters of the American Revolution), which Eleanor
was a member of, demanded that she replace the band with a white band.
Eleanor was furious and very publicly quit the DAR. The black band played
at that event.

Of course, this wouldn't happen today, and the DAR has no political power
anymore, but I doubt Hillary would have done this. I just don't see the
comparison between the two. Eleanor was about justice. She would have
been against the Iraq war and the killing of innocent civilians.

[IndianaGreen]

52. Eleanor Roosevelt also wanted the armed forces desegregated

She lobbied hard to get the African-American pilots being trained at Tuskegee to be commanded by one of their own, and to be send into combat to protect our bombers flying over Europe.

I can't envision Eleanor ever approving of a DOMA or a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

[SaveElmer]

55. She also did not attack her husband...

For accommodating himself to southern white racists in order to get his programs through...

People have this image of Eleanor Roosevelt as this uncompromising liberal champion...when in reality she was a skilled politician who employed both compromise and publicity to move her agenda forward...

And in her day was as despised by certain sections of the electorate, including many in her own party, and Hillary is...

I think Eleanor would admire Hillary very much...

As to whether Hillary will have the same impact as Eleanor...time will tell...my bet would be yes!

[IndianaGreen]

57. Eleanor would never approve, much less admire, anyone that supported preemptive wars

Eleanor was a strong believer in international law and human rights. Hillary's record is dismal when it comes to the rule of law and civil liberties.

[SaveElmer]

58. ...

"Eleanor would never approve, much less admire, anyone that supported preemptive wars"

Hillary does not support preemptive war

"Eleanor was a strong believer in international law and human rights. "

As is Hillary

"Hillary's record is dismal when it comes to the rule of law and civil liberties."

No and...

When's the last time Hillary incarcerated 120,000 people based on their ethnicity?

[IndianaGreen]

62. Hillary voted for PATRIOT and remains unrepentant about that vote

PATRIOT began our nation's slide into tyranny.

[mtnsnake]

67. So did every other Democratic Senator but one, but pin it all on Hillary

Russ Feingold was the only senator who voted against the Patriot Act of 2001. Every other senator in Congress voted along with Hillary FOR it, including every Democrat but Feingold. I'm not saying their near unanimous vote for it was right, just saying that the criticism of her for it is a little on the selective side.

[IndianaGreen]

68. Like Bush, Hillary is incapable of admitting error

The reason she is unrepentant about PATRIOT and IWR is because she is either incapable of admitting error, like Bush, or she really believes in PATRIOT and pre-emptive wars but, unlike Joe Lieberman, she lacks the courage of her convictions.

[mtnsnake]

69. You compared her to Bush. Historians compare her to Eleanor. Guess who I believe

The reason she is unrepentant about PATRIOT and IWR is because she is either incapable of admitting error, like Bush, or she really believes in PATRIOT and pre-emptive wars

It doesn't surprise me you'd single her out from all the other 48 Democratic senators who voted the same way she did on the Patriot Act or from all the other great majority of senators who voted for the IWR. I'll bet you'd be the first one to call her a hypocrite if she apologized for the IWR, now that it's politically safe to do so.

unlike Joe Lieberman, she lacks the courage of her convictions.

Hillary's got more conviction and courage in her pinky toe than Lieberman has in his entire body. Anyway, you're one of the first posters I've seen who admires that rat, Lieberman, for his courage.

[Tellurian]

59. Great First Ladys of the 20th Century..

[SaveElmer]

63. I like it!!!...nt

[AnOhioan]

61. Not to be picky but your post has some factual errors

In 1939, in the final years of the Great Depression and before the entry of the United States into WWII, a famous incident took place in Washington that clearly showed Eleanor's stand on racial equality. The world famous African American female singer, Marian Anderson, was denied the use of the public Constitution Hall by its owners, the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR). The DAR stated that the use of their hall was restricted to white performers only. Eleanor, a DAR member, quickly sent in her resignation letter and this action made national news.

Marian Anderson, with the help of other Roosevelt administration officials, went on to sing her concert on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on Easter Sunday 1939 to an integrated crowd of 75,000. In January 1943 Marian Anderson finally sang in Constitution Hall and she performed again at the Lincoln Memorial in 1963 and in 1965. She had once stated that racism was like "…a hair that blows across your face. Nobody sees it, but it's there and you can feel it." When asked about her opinion on Eleanor's DAR resignation she told a reporter "I am not surprised at Mrs. Roosevelt's action, because she seems to me to be one who really comprehends the true meaning of democracy."

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/eleanor/lesson2.htm

[election_2004]

50. Hillary Clinton is no Eleanor Roosevelt

More horseshit media propaganda on behalf of Ms. Inevitable.

[mtnsnake]

53. Since when are historians like Allida Black part of the media? nt

[election_2004]

51. Hillary Clinton is no Eleanor Roosevelt

More horseshit media propaganda on behalf of Ms. Inevitable.

[mtnsnake]

54. Some think she'll be more like a combination of the two Roosevelts

once she becomes President, so yes, in that regard, she's no Eleanor...she might become more like a cross between Eleanor and Franklin. Time will tell.

[IndianaGreen]

56. America can't afford to take a risky chance on Hillary blossoming into a Roosevelt

All we got to go on is her own record of vacillations, triangulations, calculations, and unprincipled stands except when there was an angle that beneficial to her neoliberal admirers.

[TheWatcher]

66. Most. Delusional. Post. EVER.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: