Will Obama exageration/lies about community organizer past doom his run?

[papau]

As the 24-year-old mentor to public housing residents, Obama says he initiated and led efforts that thrust Altgeld's asbestos problem into the headlines, pushing city officials to call hearings and a reluctant housing authority to start a cleanup.

- Problem is that the above is untrue/exagerated/a lie

Offsetting this is the fact that Obama was effective and did a lot of good in the Altgeld's asbestos problem effort.

Democratic Party members will give Obama a pass on this, I am sure, but will the GOP in the general election or the media that is the GOP echo chamber?

=======================================================================================

http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/264478,CST-NWS-sweet20.article

Fornek reports that Johnson, 72, objects to Obama taking credit for helping force the CHA to remove asbestos at Altgeld Gardens. Johnson has not read Obama's book. She said he played no role in the asbestos-removal fight. She said he did help get "angel hair," another type of dangerous insulation, removed from attics in the complex's row houses -- and worked on public transportation issues and helped get a library built. ''He was not with us on the asbestos,'' she said.

But Johnson told Fornek a different version of the events in 2004 during an interview for a profile on Obama during that year's U.S. Senate race. She said Obama worked on the asbestos removal after the angel hair project. "We worked together." Another colleague, Sun-Times reporter Tim Novak, talked to Cheryl Jackson, her daughter. She said her mother was exploited by Obama when he failed to include her efforts in his book.

"My mother worked too hard and too long of a time. That hurts when someone who has been a sole soldier for so long and continues to be a soldier for environmental issues . . . for someone to exploit the work that she has done is not fair."

====================================================================================
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obama19dec12,0,6826104.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Obama memoir left out credits for activism, critics say
The senator and presidential hopeful's account of his work at a Chicago housing project leaves out others' work on asbestos removal, organizers charge.
By Peter Wallsten, Times Staff Writer
February 19, 2007

CHICAGO — <snip>What followed, Obama says in a memoir, was a life-altering experience, an early taste of his ability to motivate the powerless and work the levers of government. As the 24-year-old mentor to public housing residents, Obama says he initiated and led efforts that thrust Altgeld's asbestos problem into the headlines, pushing city officials to call hearings and a reluctant housing authority to start a cleanup.<snip>

They say Obama did not play the singular role in the asbestos episode that he portrays in the best-selling memoir "Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance." Credit for pushing officials to deal with the cancer-causing substance, according to interviews and news accounts from that period, also goes to a well-known preexisting group at Altgeld Gardens and to a local newspaper called the Chicago Reporter. Obama does not mention either one in his book.

"Just because someone writes it doesn't make it true," said longtime Altgeld resident Hazel Johnson, who worked with Obama on the asbestos campaign and had been pushing for a variety of environmental cleanups years before he arrived.

U.S. Rep. Bobby L. Rush (D-Ill.) said it was Johnson's work, as well as asbestos testing conducted by the Chicago Reporter, that sparked the interest of Chicago officials and prompted Rush, who at the time was a City Council member, to launch an inquiry. Though he has not read Obama's memoir, Rush, who has been a political rival of Obama in recent years, said Johnson's role was so prominent that he was "offended" by anyone telling the Altgeld story without including her.<snip>

One of those scientists, Regnal Jones, visited Johnson in the early 1980s and recalls sitting in her kitchen as she laid out hundreds of index cards listing the illnesses throughout Altgeld. He said he was "blown away" by Johnson's survey. During that visit, Jones said, he inspected Johnson's apartment and concluded that her heating pipes were insulated with asbestos.

From that point on, Johnson says, she included asbestos in her complaints to government officials.<snip>

[illinoisprogressive]

1. Lynn Sweet proves this as a total smear.

[papau]

8. No - Lynn Sweet doesn't dispute Obama did "lie" about leading asbestos fight - but does say he

got in on the tail in of the asbestos fight and helped out
=============================================
http://rojname.com/show-all-last-minute-news.php?nuce=10105

Did Obama take too much credit?
L.A. Times questions his role in asbestos removal at Altgeld

February 20, 2007
BY LYNN SWEET Sun-Times Columnist
LOS ANGELES -- <SNIP>Obama, 45, is hoping to dilute questions about his experience by arguing that the totality of his career -- from community organizer to state senator to the U.S. Senate -- should count, and not just his last two years in Washington.

An apparently anxious Obama campaign sent out a detailed memo at 5:05 a.m. Monday, rebutting the thesis of the L.A. Times article and the "implication" Obama "partially fictionalized events" in Altgeld. The campaign memo contained testimonials of several people familiar with Obama's Altgeld role and said he downplayed his role in the asbestos controversy.<snip>

Fornek reports that Johnson, 72, objects to Obama taking credit for helping force the CHA to remove asbestos at Altgeld Gardens. Johnson has not read Obama's book. She said he played no role in the asbestos-removal fight. She said he did help get "angel hair," another type of dangerous insulation, removed from attics in the complex's row houses -- and worked on public transportation issues and helped get a library built. ''He was not with us on the asbestos,'' she said.

But Johnson told Fornek a different version of the events in 2004 during an interview for a profile on Obama during that year's U.S. Senate race. She said Obama worked on the asbestos removal after the angel hair project. "We worked together." Another colleague, Sun-Times reporter Tim Novak, talked to Cheryl Jackson, her daughter. She said her mother was exploited by Obama when he failed to include her efforts in his book.

"My mother worked too hard and too long of a time. That hurts when someone who has been a sole soldier for so long and continues to be a soldier for environmental issues . . . for someone to exploit the work that she has done is not fair."
==================================================================
http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/local_story_051195408.html

Feb 20, 2007 6:51 pm US/Central
Obama's Community Service Called Under Question
Altgeld Gardens Resident Who Worked With Senator In 1980s Says He Is Exaggerating His Role
Get breaking news alerts

Mike Flannery Reporting

[ieoeja]

53. Reading comprehension problems?

Nowhere in that article does it say Obama lied. Unless by lie you mean "underplayed his role", i.e. took LESS credit than he deserved.


As to getting "in on the tail end", in 2004 Johnson specifically stated that he had already worked on community projects BEFORE the asbestos removal project got started.

"But Johnson told Fornek a different version of the events in 2004 during an interview for a profile on Obama during that year's U.S. Senate race. She said Obama worked on the asbestos removal after the angel hair project. 'We worked together.' Another colleague, Sun-Times reporter Tim Novak, talked to Cheryl Jackson, her daughter. She said her mother was exploited by Obama when he failed to include her efforts in his book."


Johnson is simply upset being part of a composite character (to avoid legal entanglements) instead of receiving separate credit for her part.

[MethuenProgressive]

2. Is DU now the "the GOP echo chamber?"

:sarcasm:

[papau]

9. Do we dismiss what CBS and the LATimes - what MSM is saying if we don't like it? n/t

n/t

[Ethelk2044]

16. Yes, we do

We know how the media smears and slants views because they
prefer the other candidate.  WE all know the LA time supported
President Clinton with his election bids as they do Hillary
now.  Please don't take us for fools we that we are not.   

[papau]

24. ? -no one is being taken for fools - Obama asbestos response is excellent - but I can't

find a "I did not lie about my Dad" response to
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=431908&in_page_id=1770

rapid response is what will win this election - for whomever is the nominee.

[bluehighways911]

54. Why Would You Believe

Why would anyone believe the LA Times. In fact, why would you believe CBS. They caved like Bush toadies on the National Guard story.

This media lied their ass off and now hundreds of thousands are dead.


You would need to be brainwashed to believe a thing they say.

And yes, I am an Obama supporter, and I would say the same thing if they were attacking any others.

What Obama will do is what Reagan did, no not sell missles to terrorists.

Obama will go above the media.

When will the netroots join him.

You are fool if you repeat the media talking points.

[FrenchieCat]

3. OMG!!!!!

:boring:

[Horse with no Name]

4. I'm not an Obama supporter

but this is ridiculous to bring hit pieces here and post as fact.

[FrenchieCat]

5. And break copyright DU rules at that!

I think 3 or 4 paragraph of a smear is more than enough! :puke:

[papau]

10. Bobby Rush is now a liar because he said Obama exagerated? The others at the

project and the newspaper that actually did expose the story in the 80's are your enemy I guess.

[ripple]

21. Bobby Rush is no friend of Obama's

I heard an interviw on NPR in which he said that Obama needs to "become angry" in order to reach black voters. He also said that racial problems in the US today are actually "worse" than they were during the civil rights movement. :wow:

Rush is a sore winner- I think he's especially pissed off that the guy he defeated in a House race has gone on to become a US Senator and serious presidential contender. Sorry, Bobby! :rofl:

[papau]

27. Rush is my generation Black Panther - and he beat Obama head to head in 2000 - but

I do not know Bobby to lie -

indeed I do not know a reason for him to lie.

Indeed both he and Obama may well be - indeed seem to be - telling the truth about the asbestos incident. Rush and other activists were there early on - and Obama came in late but as organizer got the Chicago Housing Authority to make change (although we have not heard any CHA person say this is the way it happened, we have also not heard anyone say it wasn't).

The charge that the book is not clear about this remains, of course.

But not clear is different from lie.

[mth44sc]

6. get outta town...

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2007/02/rapid_fire.html

[papau]

17. Great link - thanks for posting the Obama rebuttal - I thought it great - but Trib readers said

otherwise (or at least some Trib readers)

The Obama rebutal is that those speaking to the LA Times were activists that did not know how to get change accomplish - he did know how, and accomplished the change.

Works for me

but a reader wrote:

The principle allegation in the Times piece is that in Obama's Book, community activists are given short shrift, or even fully ignored. To wit "He Initiated and Led Efforts That Thrust Altgeld’s Asbestos Problem Into the Headlines"

Instead of citing passages FROM OBAMA'S BOOK to refute that, we are given a blizzard of quotes about the important role Obama played in the Altgeld Asbestos matter.

Nobody has denied that Obama played a critical, perhaps THE critical role -- the LA Times piece doesn't nor has anybody in the thread as I type. Furthermore let me congratulate Obama for what he did back then. It was certainly laudable.

Nevertheless, above allegation remains unanswered. The fact the Obama's crack staff does not rebut the point by citing from the book suggests to me that they can't.

[carpe diem]

30. This is from the introduction to 'Dreams from My Father'...

Finally, there are the dangers inherent in any autobiographical work: the temptation to color events in ways favorable to the writer, the tendency to overestimate the interest one's experiences hold for others, selective lapses of memory. Such hazards are only magnified when the writer lacks the wisdom of age; the distance that can cure one of certain vanities. I can't say that I've avoided all, or any, of these hazards successfuly. Although much of this book is based on contemporaneous journals or the oral histories of my family, the dialogue is necessarily an approximation of what was actually said or relayed to me. For the sake of compression, some of the characters that appear are composites of people I've known, and some events appear out of precise choronology. With the exception of my family and a handful of public figures, the names of most characters have been changed for the sake of their privacy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...he tells you upfront that this is not a precise recouting of history but he still gets smeared as being dishonest/a liar because it's not a precise recounting of history...

[papau]

38. I saw that - and it covers everything except "color events in ways favorable to the writer"

One can't be rid of the charge just by saying that you might have done that.

[carpe diem]

39. How can one be rid of a charge/smear like this?

It's his word against someone else's...someone who might possibly have an agenda of their own. He says it happened this way, they say it happened another, some people support his recollection, others support a different recollection. If the links to contemporaneous media coverage of the events as they happened don't convince you, and the other residents who remember his involvement don't convince you, then you don't want to be convinced and nothing anyone can present 20 yrs later is going to be good enough.

[papau]

41. On asbestos I am convinced - and Dad story goes away with statement he learned later about

Dad - but he has not dropped the marriage broke up because of racism line so far - and based on the new data - he should drop it. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=431908&in_page_id=1770

[thoughtcrime1984]

42. Persistent little bugger, aren't you?

I doubt anyone gives a rats hind quarters about what you're selling.

[papau]

46. Primary season at DU - got to love it - I don't care vs I don't care - wait till we have

a nominee, and we all come back together - I hope! :-)

[carpe diem]

45. they are misrepresenting (big surprise!) what he wrote...

the racism charge was not made by Obama but by the African relatives...that was their speculation/recollection of what happened to his parents relationship.

[papau]

47. Thanks - a good answer to the Dad/marriage breakup/racism charge n/t

n/t

[Erika]

7. Obama is the future of our country.

I am thrilled with the candidates we have.

The GOP is in an implosion mode with their "candidates"

[MonkeyFunk]

11. the answer to your question is

No, not at all.

[IndianaGreen]

12. Obama's response to this swift boating attempt was posted yesterday

Here is the link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3121831

On a related issue, I would ask how many members of Congress, including several Democrats, voted to limit liability for claims for asbestos related disease? You will be surprised!

[ripple]

13. The allegations have been responded to

By the Obama campaign:

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2007/02/rapid_fire.html#more

[papau]

23. And I like the response - did they do a similiar response to charge he lied about Dad?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=431908&in_page_id=1770

[ripple]

25. Obama didn't lie about his father

I don't know what charge you are referring to (the British tabloid bit, perhaps?), but some 'charges' are undeserving of a response, especially when they involve family members. He's not running on his father's record, for fuck's sake.

[papau]

28. He is running as a truth teller - did he tell the truth about Dad and family being destroyed by race

?

[Connie_Corleone]

31. Read the book and judge for yourself.

[ripple]

33. Bingo!

Just saw your response #19. Sure enough, you are now parading out a british tabloid story that is several weeks old, and that includes unverifiable sources, in an obvious attempt to discredit the man.

That amount of effort makes me inclined to believe that you won't be voting for Senator Obama. So do tell, who are you supporting in 2008?

[papau]

36. The Brit story is sourced to relatives - not exactly unverified- and the fact that it is old with no

response is a little disconcerting.

I want the Dem candidate to be into rapid response.

And the response time for the LAT story was excellent - but why no response to the Brit Dad story? - both involve the question of truth telling.

[Connie_Corleone]

37. Why don't you email his campaign and find out.

Maybe it's because it's in a Brit paper and the story hasn't had any traction in the states.

[carpe diem]

43. actually, in the book, he recounts the same stories...

...told to him by his African relatives that the British paper tells. Probably some of the same 'relatives'. He had no personal knowledge of his father, so he couldn't lie about him, he had to take others word for what he did/was like...He did not mythologize his father, he didn't know enough about him to do so even if he wanted.

[papau]

51. then why say racism broke up the family when dad just walked out as he had before and

would again and again - with black wifes in Africa?

[ripple]

52. That's just it

with the exception of a cousin (and the article doesn't state how distant) and some classmate of Obama's, the article doesn't mention the relatives by name. The more egregious assertions are vaguely sourced with phrases like "relatives say..." and "according to relatives...". I would link to the article to make this point, but I don't particularly care to reinforce this ridiculous swiftie-style attack.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be too thrilled to have a cousin that I haven't seen in years, a person I happened to share a class with, or distant unnamed relatives speculating about my life and how whatever version of events made it to them through the rumor mill or might not have affected me.

Regarding the absence of a response to the tabloid story, I think you could probably present the same questions to most all candidates who have been subject to irrelevant, speculative smears.
Why doesn't Hillary address the subject of her sexuality? Has she been dishonestly passing herself off as a heterosexual? Why doesn't Edwards talk openly about having cosmetic surgery to remove a mole? What is he trying to hide? Hmmmm???????

It's absurd to expect candidates to answer every insulting smear that's lobbed at them, especially those smears that qualify largely as gossip and have nothing to do with their political record or qualifications for office.

[Connie_Corleone]

26. Since you posted the same question three times in this thread...

He acknowledges in both his books that he was disappointed in what he found out about his father. He goes on to tell some things about his father that were negative. He did not lie about him.

All these reporters have to do is read the damn book.

[papau]

32. So the book on family and dad was written before he knew much about dad?

that works well as a response -

but it seems the Obama camp has not responded to the Brit paper, as far as I can google.

[Ethelk2044]

14. Obama's Response

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE WRITES IT DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE
Press Release | February 19, 2007
Today, the Los Angeles Times published an article entitled
"Fellow Activists Say Obama's Memoir Has Too Many
I's" which implies that Obama partially fictionalized
events in Altgeld Gardens in the 1980s in order to enhance the
role he played in the community there. 

The implication is false, and the article is misleading. At no
point in the work does Obama take "singular" credit
for initiating and leading efforts on the Atlgeld asbestos
problem. In fact, those who worked with him confirm that he
preferred a background role in the matter, refusing to claim
credit or even be in pictures taken of the community group.
However, despite the fact that he shunned a public role,
Obama's work is clearly remembered by Altgeld residents, other
organizers, and the reporter that the LA Times and others
credit with bringing the problem of asbestos in Chicago's
public housing to light. 

[papau]

19. Is there a press release re Brit paper finding that Dad in Obama's Book was not how real dad was?

found by interviewing Obama's relatives....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=431908&in_page_id=1770

We have discovered that his father was not just a deeply flawed individual but an abusive bigamist and an egomaniac, whose life was ruined not by racism or corruption but his own weaknesses.

He was put forward for an American-sponsored scholarship in economics, with the idea being that he would eventually use his Western-honed skills in the new Kenya. At the age of 23 he headed for university in Hawaii, leaving behind the pregnant (wife) Kezia and their baby son.

Relatives say he was already a slick womaniser and, once in Honolulu, he promptly persuaded a fellow student called Ann - a naive 18-year-old white girl - to marry him. Barack Jnr was born in August, 1961.

Two years later, Obama Snr was on the move again. He was accepted at Harvard, and left his little boy and wife behind when he moved to the exclusive east coast university.

Mr Obama Jnr claims that racism on both sides of the family destroyed the marriage between his mother and father.

In his book, he says that Ann's mother, who went by the nickname Tut, did not want a black son-in-law, and Obama Snr's father 'didn't want the Obama blood sullied by a white woman'.

In fact Ann divorced her husband after she discovered his bigamous double life. She remarried and moved to Indonesia with young Barack and her new husband, an oil company manager.

A relative of Mr Obama says: "We told him how his father would still go to Kezia and it was during these visits that she became pregnant with two more children. He also had two children with Ruth."

It is alleged that Ruth finally left him after he repeatedly flew into whisky-fuelled rages, beating her brutally. <snip>

[KoKo]

56. That's quite a read....Obama's father was a real Scamp....

Is the "Daily Mail" owned by Rupert Murdoch? The article brings up some interesting questions. Why would Obama have hero worshiped his father? Also did Obama ever see his father again after he went back to Kenya.

We need to separate Obama the man from the Myth. Who wants to have another president with father problems in the WH. If Obama believed his father to be a hero then finds out later he's what this article suggests...what did that mean to him? :shrug:

[KingofNewOrleans]

15. The weird thing

the man who really led the fight against the abestos--Neil Kinnock. And now you know--the rest of the story.

While many have been critical of the early start to the election cycle, it may not be so bad to get this stuff out of the way early, while the vast majority of the people still don't give a rat's ass.

[papau]

22. I agree - a Aug 08 "revelation"/slime can't be eliminated before the election n/t

n/t

[stillcool]

18. Wow.....is this a real live 'issue'?

makes me want to go examine the mole on my ass, and write a book about it's characteristics.

[Ethelk2044]

20. Trying to Bring him Down

I love how people are trying to bring him down and the real
time for the election has not begun yet.  They must be really
afraid of him.  That is the only reason why they are
continuously trying to attack him.  It is funny how it does
not stick.   However,  I must say keep on trying it is funny
what people do when they are really scared.

[stillcool]

34. The absurdity is both...

hilarious and horrific. Fear and Loathing expressed by a panoply of pawns, at the delight of the puppeteers.

[k_jerome]

29. bwahahaha.nt.

[zulchzulu]

35. Look! It's a gnat on the window sill.... SPLAT!

What a pissant story. Ferchrissakes, is this all Carville has?

[oasis]

44. "Carville"? My first instinct would be to look within the GOP ranks for the culprit.

Isn't Obama a threat to them?

[zulchzulu]

55. Perhaps you don't know about Carville Le Turncoat...

If you have a copy of Bob Woodward's "State Of Denial", page it on over to pages 343-346. You'll find a lovely little story where Mr. Carville got wind that Kerry was going to fight in Ohio for 250,000 outstanding ballots on Election Eve.

He could have shut his piehole...but no...not Jimmy Boy. He decides to tell his skanky wife, Mary Matalin, who just so happens to be part of the Bush-Cheney team. They make a little phone call to Kenneth Blackwell, the Repug Secretary of State in Ohio. He downs the estimated number to a fictional 180,000, hence making it meaningless to fight it out.

An excerpt from the book:
"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Essentially, Carville gave information to the enemy (if that's who they are to him) in a time of war. What usually happens with scum like that is that we'd find their skeleton hanging from a tree by now.

[oasis]

57. "Woodward" emoticon:

:dilemma:

[thoughtcrime1984]

40. PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA

Enjoy the 8 years of a great leader.

[Hekate]

48. No.& why are you obsessing about & participating in this Swiftboating?Care to explain your own shit?

Jeez louise, papau. Having read this whole thread, I have to ask what ails YOU? The fact that no answer satisfies you says more about you than it does about Barack Obama.

Read his two books, why don't you, instead of British trash.

Hekate

[elizm]

49. Papau is just upset...

...because Obama is catching Hillary in the polls. Grasping at straws I'd say.

[cali]

50. You wish. But sorry, no

it won't even dent it. What will continue to impress folks is that instead of joining a firm where he could have cleaned up- and he had slews of offers from said firms- Obama chose to go with a public interest law firm.

So sorry that your pathetic attempt is doomed to failure.

[geek tragedy]

58. Classic concern trolling. eom

[KoKo]

61. Well.....Papau has been here a long time to be just a "concern troll"

Perhaps Papau...is just trying to get a discussion going here about what Obama is going to face from the RW as he goes along in his candidacy.

It's one thing to "Hero Worship" Dem Candidates and disregard or shoot down any questioning of their background and how it might relate to their policy views and another thing to examine the questions that are raised and try to come to an honest assessment through discussion of both flaws and strengths. :shrug:

[geek tragedy]

62. A normally good poster can concern troll on occasion. eom

[Radical Activist]

59. No, because this has been completely debunked.

Nice try though.

[Hawkowl]

60. Lie is incorrect

You need to take Lie out of your title and just go with exaggeration--at the least. He obviously did help with this asbestos problem. Of course with any successful venture there are many people who want to take some credit. Obama certainly deserves some.

I'm not even an Obama fan, but parroting right wing character assassination points is just STUPID.