Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Hillary!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 02:58 AM
Original message
Hillary!
Hillary Clinton.

She is that woman who says things and does stuff!

:popcorn:







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, no she doesn't!
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Oh, yes she does!!
:mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. YES she does!
Stop SHILLING for the DLC!!!1!

:P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. You are not a real democrat!
She does things before she says stuff AND YOU KNOW IT!!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Excuse me, I saw her on MTP
and she was saying things, NOT STUFF. Besides, DINOs don't even HAVE motor skills.

WTF
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. That is DINA!
Not DINO. Obviously your hatred of women is the reason for your hatred of Hillary!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Whatever.
The fact remains that Hillary flipped off my grandma.

Take your strawman (strawwoman) arguments elsewhere. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Well....
What did your grandma do to so inflame such a paragon of virtue and drive her against her will and good judgment to do such a thing, eh?

Look in the mirror, I say!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. Could it be that Granma was an intern??
Bill had an eye for the ladies - and they didnot have to as young as Monica.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemKR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. She is.....
Edited on Mon Feb-19-07 03:18 AM by DemKR
the candidate I have decided to support after weeks of soul searching. The anti-Hillary crowd pretty much helped influence the decision. If we do not stick together this election, the consequences are our own fault!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. You are also incorrect!
War
Famine
Disease
Death....

I'm not saying Hillary caused WW2, but.... it makes you think, you know?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. That could.....
happen alot. :think:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. There is no great honor in...
..."sticking together" for a candidate who is helping
BushCo in his Iran War PR efforts.

We are AMERICANS. We should be loyal to the Constitution
and the Bill of Rights first. Rallying around Hillary--a
candidate who stood around saying nothing--while Junior
wiretapped, robbed our treasury, tortured, abused his power,
murdered innocent Iraqis and raped the planet---really
isn't a virtuous act!

Doing the right thing---and restoring our democracy from
these sick neocons--should be priority one. Not
settling for a candidate who is currently in lockstep
with Junior's plan to go after Iran next.

Many Republican candidates aren't even endorsing Iran!
Yet, Hillary is.

If "sticking together" means supporting a candidate who has
had barely anything to say about Junior destroying our
democracy---then I'm proud to be counted out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
31. Congrats on picking the best candidate for you.
As part of the anti-Hillary crowd, I mean that most sincerely. Enjoy!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chaz4jazz Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. READ THIS ABOUT HILARY
NY Times, February 15, 2007
Op-Ed Columnist


No Apology Needed
By David Brooks

Far be it from me to get in the middle of a liberal purge, but would anybody mind if I pointed out that the calls for Hillary Clinton to apologize for her support of the Iraq war are almost entirely bogus?

I mean, have the people calling for her apology actually read the speeches she delivered before the war? Have they read her remarks during the war resolution debate, when she specifically rejected a pre-emptive, unilateral attack on Saddam? Did they read the passages in which she called for a longer U.N. inspections regime and declared, "I believe international support and legitimacy are crucial"?

If they went back and read what Senator Clinton was saying before the war, they'd be surprised, as I was, by her approach. And they'd learn something, as I did, about what kind of president she would make.

The Iraq war debate began in earnest in September 2002. At that point Clinton was saying in public what Colin Powell was saying in private: emphasizing the need to work through the U.N. and build a broad coalition to enforce inspections.

She delivered her Senate resolution speech on Oct. 10. It was Clintonian in character. On the one hand, she rejected the Bush policy of pre-emptive war. On the other hand, she also rejected the view that the international community "should only resort to force if and when the United Nations Security Council approves it." Drawing on the lessons of Bosnia, she said sometimes the world had to act, even if the big powers couldn't agree.

She sought a third way: more U.N. resolutions, more inspections, more diplomacy, with the threat of force reserved as a last resort. She was triangulating, but the Senate resolution offered her a binary choice. She voted yes in order to give Powell bipartisan leverage at the U.N.

This is how she's always explained that vote, and I confess that until now, I've regarded her explanation as a transparent political dodge. Didn't everyone know this was a war resolution? But now, having investigated her public comments, I think diplomatic leverage really was on her mind. I also know, from a third person, that she was spending a lot of time with Powell and wanted to help.

On Nov. 8, 2002, the Security Council passed a unanimous resolution threatening Saddam with "serious consequences" if he didn't disarm.

The next crucial period came in March 2003, as the U.S. battled France over the second Security Council resolution. Clinton's argument at this point was that inspections were working and should be given more time. "It is preferable that we do this in a peaceful manner through coercive inspection," she said on March 3, but went on, "At some point we have to be willing to uphold the United Nations resolutions." Then she added, "This is a very delicate balancing act."

On March 17, Bush gave Saddam 48 hours to disarm or face attack. Clinton tried to be critical of the Bush policy while being deferential to the office of the presidency. She clearly had doubts about Bush's timing, but she kept emphasizing that from her time in the White House, she knew how unhelpful it was for senators to be popping off in public on foreign policy.

At one press event in New York, she nodded when Charles Rangel said Bush had failed at the U.N. But when reporters asked Clinton to repeat what Rangel had just said, she bit her tongue. On March 17, as U.S. troops mobilized, she issued her strongest statement in support of the effort.

Clinton's biggest breach with the liberal wing actually opened up later, in the fall of 2003. Most liberals went into full opposition, wanting to see Bush disgraced. Clinton ­ while an early critic of the troop levels, the postwar plans and all the rest ­ tried to stay constructive. She wanted to see America and Iraq succeed, even if Bush was not disgraced.

When you look back at Clinton's thinking, you don't see a classic war supporter. You see a person who was trying to seek balance between opposing arguments. You also see a person who deferred to the office of the presidency. You see a person who, as president, would be fox to Bush's hedgehog: who would see problems in their complexities rather than in their essentials; who would elevate procedural concerns over philosophical ones; who would postpone decision points for as long as possible; and who would make distinctions few heed.

Today, the liberal wing of the Democratic Party believes that the world, and Hillary Clinton in particular, owes it an apology. If she apologizes, she'll forfeit her integrity. She will be apologizing for being herself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Right...we should all trust David Brooks to provide us with the truth...
Maybe we should all tune in to Faux News Channel for our political insight from now on?

:eyes:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Brooks as a visionary would mean
he would predict that Winter follows Spring, that snow is sucked upwards to create clouds, that 7 is an even number, that . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. I love it when Republicans are "concerned" and give us advice.
They always have our best interests at heart when they do this, you know! :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Boo Boo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. "Drawing on the lessons of Bosnia, she said sometimes the world had
to act, even if the big powers couldn't agree."

I don't see those two situations (Kosovo vs. Iraq) as being at all similar, and I don't accept the analogy. Moreover, I think Brooks is putting up a bit of a straw dog with this effort of his to prop up the Repubs favorite punching bag. Hillary is trying out various formulations to diffuse the issue, and she's not having much luck. I think the reason for that is not that certain people are looking for an apology, but rather that they aren't looking for one at all.

Hillary's big problem is now, and will remain, that pretty much everybody in the country (right, left, and center) has made up their mind about her one way or the other.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Brooks makes a good case for Hillary to remain firm.(eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. but flabby is really unattractive.
so I am with him on that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
15. I'd take Hill on her worst day over most candidates on their best.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
17. Kinda like,
just about everybody.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
20. These people are just no fun
:D

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. lol, I failed in my mission
Partly because I wasn't here to keep this on track.

THIS WAS NEVER MEANT AS A SERIOUS DEBATE ABOUT HILLARY, FOLKS.

Ah, well, there is always my famous Kerry! thread. Memories.... ;)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. You got that right...
...she speaks out against the Iraq war--when her words
won't affect change and are meaningless.

Then, she speaks FOR war with Iran--helping Junior with
his warmongering foibles, and assisting him in the "run up".

Yeah, she speaks all right--but nothing she says ever furthers
Democratic ideals.

Most of what I've seen her say--regarding foreign policy--helps
out the warmongering neocons.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
24. no comparison

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
25. meh
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
28. Well, in my opinion, and it's only my opinion,
(albeit an opinion you that if you would simply assume as your own would stop me from looking upon you as an imbecilic and ill-mannered cyber-space time-waster and presidential-femalaphobe)

-my opinion is that when she's doing stuff and not saying things, she's in danger of having the Republican character assassin-squad swift-boat her for saying things and not doing stuff.

I just can't tell you how sick I am of these kinds of OPs. Don't you have better fish to kettle in a black pot? :shrug:

Really, you're worse than Tom DeLay and Hitler playing Parcheesi in a roll-away cot in a garage off Delancy Street during a rainstorm two days before the fourth of July.

Do I make myself clear, young lady? :mad:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
election_2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
29. Plus...
Barack Obama is a biracial person of color who says things and does stuff.

John Edwards is a Southerner who says things and does stuff.

Wes Clark is a military veteran who says things and does stuff.

And Joe Lieberman is a self-important gasbag who says things and does stuff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluehighways911 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
30. The Democrats George Bush
hardened their opinion of her.
Clinton Alienates Progressives With Her "Never Admit Mistakes" Campaign

The view on the Left, meanwhile, was quite the opposite. The election of Bill Clinton in November of 1992 meant to Liberals and Progressives that there would be a First Lady who was anything but window dressing to her husband. She was smart, articulate, and had a strength of will that hearkened back to Eleanor Roosevelt. But a lot has changed in the last fifteen years, and now there are probably almost as many new-generation Progressives as there are old-school Conservatives who see Clinton as cold and calculating.

There are many reasons for this: First, there is the Iraq War. She voted to authorize it in 2002. So did a lot of other Democrats in the Senate, but most of them have disavowed that vote. But Clinton steadfastly refuses to recant that vote, or call it a mistake, as former Senator and 2008 hopeful John Edwards did in an opinion piece in November 2005. Even the fact that it’s costing her votes does not faze her. Progressives are starting to feel that the formidable Clinton shares one chilling trait in common with George W. Bush: Never admit you’re wrong, even when it’s painfully obvious that your lack of candor is costing you support.


Too Close to George
She has displayed other too-close-to-George sentiments that are setting progressives teeth on edge. On the Iraq war, she has said repeatedly that had she been president in 2002, we would not have gone to war, but that she still made the right decision in authorizing, because she was given bad information. In other words, I was a pawn, and did as I was told, but make me Queen, and I’ll do a better job.

Besides not admitting the Iraq vote was a mistake, she states that she will not redeploy all troops out of the region if elected president. “There will be missions,” she said ominously. And while there rest of the country (and the whole world) is screaming to Bush to not make the Iraq mess worse by attacking Iran, Clinton insists “No option can be taken off the table,” in dealing with Iran, including military action.

Avoiding the Label of Flip-Flopper

In trying to break the glass ceiling of presidential politics, she obviously thinks that her admit-no-mistakes policy is the best way forward, but if she thinks that by sticking to her guns (literally) she is going to avoid John Kerry’s fate of being labeled a flip-flopper, it’s already too late. The Necons, remembering their success with Kerry, have already started calling her a flip flopper. Meanwhile, she is fooling no one with her nuanced “If I had only known” explanation; if tens of millions of progressives were able to see through the Bush Administration lies that led up to the Iraq invasion (Iraq-Al Qaeda, weapons of mass destruction, 9/11 connection), how is it that a U.S. Senator was not able to see through them? She would do better to take a lesson about learning from mistakes from another politician, the Gipper himself, who escaped unscathed from a completely botched Lebanon deployment by taking responsibility, admitting his mistake, and moving on.

Moving on is exactly what progressives want to see in any presidential candidate: Moving on in Iraq, moving on in the stalled Israeli-Palestinian peace process, moving on in economic development at home and abroad, moving on toward a balanced budget that stops giving the best pieces of the pie to the super rich at the expense of the middle class, moving on toward reclaiming this country from the badly misguided policies of politicians who can’t admit mistakes. And moving on is something the steadfast Clinton shows no inclination of doing, giving progressives a bad case of TDWS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
32. She clearly has betrayed the Dems by refusing to understand the importance of sitting on one's ass
Guess I'll have to look elsewhere.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 05th 2024, 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC