Obama: "I would love to see an America where race is understood in the same way that the ethnic

[beaconess]

diversity of the white population is understood. People take pride in being Irish-American and Italian-American. They have a particular culture that infuses the (whole) culture and makes it richer and more interesting. But it's not something that determines people's life chances and there is no sense of superiority or inferiority. I think if we can expand that attitude to embrace African-Americans and Latino-Americans and Asian-Americans, then we will be in a position where all our kids can feel comfortable with the worlds they are coming out of, knowing they are part of something larger."

February 7, 2007

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0207/2689.html

[Hav]

1. .

Good thinking and it makes sense. Why should heritage only matter (in a negative way) when it comes with another skin colour?

[msongs]

2. obama is mixing his....descriptions is he not?

italian-american is identification with country of origin (in the past somewhere)
latino-american is an identity NOT based on country of origin as it could be anwhere from italy to tierra del fuego.

in all these cases such identities are a matter of self-segregation.

I know where my ancestors came from. I do not consider myself to be an xyz-american however, any more than I consider myself
to be a californian-american.

maybe Mr. obama should just stop labeling people in the first place :-)

Msongs
www.msongs.com

[beaconess]

3. "maybe Mr. obama should just stop labeling people in the first place"

Yes - all was peachy keen until Mr. Obama divided the country when he came up with the idea of labeling people.

If only he'd stop doing it, all would be right with the world again.

:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jakem]

5. Unless I am missing something..

That was his point, no?

That racial divides should hold no more significance to others than geographic / cultural ones?

Ancestry is not 'a matter of self-segregartion,' but a significant factor in understanding our place in the world.

I dont think that is an unreasonable premise... we do not all share Colberts 'color-blindness,' so lets not pretend we do.

[Bullet1987]

6. ...

That was his point, no?

That racial divides should hold no more significance to others than geographic / cultural ones?

Ancestry is not 'a matter of self-segregartion,' but a significant factor in understanding our place in the world.

I dont think that is an unreasonable premise...

That's exactly what he was saying.

[hedgehog]

7. I like his notion of embracing and recognizing that we can all be

Americans and still retain all of our unique cultures. I don't want to say "sub-cultures" because that implies that there is a standard American culture that all the other cultures are measured against. We have come a long way. I can remember when blacks were told they had to straighten their hair to look businesslike!

[beaconess]

8. It's an interesting phenomenon

As members of the majority culture, many whites don't think of themselves as a "group." They're just "the people." Every other group of people is seen either as a separate group or an identifiable subset of the larger majority group. The separate identifications for the "other" groups were often created and perpetuated by whites, however, whites are frequently very uncomfortable when minorities embrace and operate within those very identification.

That's why, as I noted in another thread, black students are criticized for "sitting together in the cafeteria" without any criticism or even acknowledgment that the white kids, too, are sitting together. But because there are so many more white kids than black, no one seems to notice that the white kids are self-segregating - they're just seen as "the kids" while the "black kids" are separating themselves.

On the other hand, members of the larger group are quite comfortable celebrating differences within their own group. So St. Patrick's Day is a perfectly acceptable celebration of Irish culture and history. White Americans see nothing wrong with advancing Italian culture through Colombus Day. Pulaski Day, which celebrates Polish culture, is embraced. Yet whenever a minority group of color attempts to celebrate its own culture and history - a tradition created precisely because our own history and traditions were not only ignored, but in some cases, spit upon and erased, by the larger white culture - we are accused of engaging in separatism.

This argument is nothing new. But it's still crap.

[FrenchieCat]

9. I think if anyone should talk on race, it should be Obama....

it's a dialogue many have long ran from....and certain things need to be said.

It is refreshing that Obama isn't attempting to be "color" blind on this respect, because our nation isn't color blind at all.

Thank you Sen. Obama for leading this dialogue. It is long overdue! :thumbsup:

[loyalsister]

24. Excellent observations

A friend recently asked me "what is white culture?" I had no answer.
It occurs to me now that that may be because white people separate themselves from each other at least as much if not more than from others.

[beaconess]

25. "White" culture is often considered synonymous with "American" culture

Therein lies the problem.

[fuzzyball]

10. The success of a race has nothing to do with "color"..here is an example..

My example is immigrants from India. They are dark brown in
color. They speak with thick accents. Yet, 1 out of every 9
immigrant from India has net worth in excess of a MILLION $.
Goes to show you, striving for education and hard work and
thrifty living can get you somewhere.

[beaconess]

11. And folks wonder why we need more dialogue about race . . .

Thanks for sharing your belief that blacks are just lazy, uneducated, spendthrifts - if only black Americans followed the lessons of East Indians about how to succeed in America, all would be good.

[fuzzyball]

14. Actually blacks can't all be lazy....just look at the success of black

immigrants from West Indies (Jamaica, Barbados etc) and from Nigeria.
I believe Colin Powell has West-Indian ancestry. No only that but the
black middle class population is growing very nicely.

[beaconess]

15. You are really too ignorant for me to waste my time discussing this with you

But, of course, since I'm not West Indian or Nigerian but am instead a native-born black American descended from slaves, who has a doctorate and an excellent job and plenty of money, I guess I don't fit in your stereotype.

But considering that I'm no more committed to education, hard-working or thrifty than any of my ancestors, predecessors or peers, but have had opportunities (including - thank God - affirmative action) and just plain good fortune that have enabled me to do well while others who are just as "worthy" as I am still face obstacles that keep them from attaining full equality of opportunity, I am fully aware that your argument - based on backward racial stereotypes - is full of crap.

[Clark2008]

23. How did you get THAT from what fuzzyball said?

I don't see that (s)he put American black people down at all. (S)he only pointed to the fact that race doesn't translate into the wealth or non-wealth of anyone.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see the put-down you saw. :shrug:

[CTLawGuy]

27. some people see what they want to see

and nothing else.

It's sad really.

[FrenchieCat]

12. The Indian population that immigrates here are the creme of the crop....

for the most part.....coming for education or coming to fill a void in a specialized area.

They didn't come in slave ships packed like sardines...!

If you see any Indians in the photos of the marches that occurred in the south back in the 1960s.....

lemme know!

:crazy:

[fuzzyball]

13. Actually East Indians were ruled by a foreign power for 150 years

until 1947. It was a British Colony. I was a young child in 1947,
but I will never forget an incident when my parents and older
siblings were travelling by train. Two British women entered the
cabin at a stop, and we had to vacate our seats for them. My parents
were really angry but had to defer to the "ruling class". Indians
were most certainly 2nd class citizens during the colonial days.

What the indians did have going for them is ancient tradition of
education. There was a university of higher learning in India going
back 2000 years! And fortunately for the Indians, thayt tradition
continues. The university of Calcutta and Bombay have more students
enrolled than any university in the western world.

[FrenchieCat]

18. Thanks for making my point.

and maybe there is something to be said in the difference between import vs. export.

East Indians remained in their country for the most part...and their culture was left pretty much intact....although the European culture was added on top of what was already there.

While,

Africans were imported to another country in a most inhumane way.....and as well were stripped of every aspect of their culture, including language, history, etc....

So the point is you are comparing histories that are very dissimilar, thereby resulting in very different results.

[beaconess]

20. Thank YOU

[bling bling]

16. As always,

thought-provoking, inspiring, and right on the money.

Obama sure seems like the right person at the right time to lead this country.

I'm branching out a little here, but the Republicans have lead this country by intentionally dividing us into groups by race, economic status, gender, and religion, and making us all hate each other and bringing out the worst in everyone.

Can you imagine a country where our leaders teach us that it's ok to LIKE each other and like ourselves even if we aren't mirror images of some subjective ideological "American" stereotype? I can. If Obama's elected, I can.

[beaconess]

17. I agree - but it's not just Republicans.

Plenty of Democrats are just as guilty of dividing us.

But I like your vision.

[bling bling]

19. You couldn't be more right.

And I see it loud and clear all the time. All.the.time.

I was actually branching out a little from the OP about race and ethnicity. What I was thinking of when I posted that was the politics of our leaders in office the last 6 years. The way the republicans have appealed to the scummiest side in everyone to GOTV. Using gay marriage to get people to the polls. Or calling the Democrats who disagree with them unpatriotic and terrorist-sympathizers. They have successfully managed to paint a picture of Democrats as:
anti-family, anti-God, anti-life, anti-troops, and anti-Americans who just want power so we can take all their money. I read the opinions on opinion journal and listen to the callers on Rush Limbaugh so I know that this is what the other side thinks of us at large. It makes me wonder why, if they REALLY and truly think we're this horrible and hateful, why they don't call for a civil war to ostracize us from this country!! Seriously.

And I have to admit that I find myself hating them too.

But when I hear Obama speak or read a transcript I find myself thinking differently. On a different level. How refreshing would it be to have a leader that elevated us to higher levels of thought and action instead of bringing us down to the gutter where we just point our fingers and spew hate back and forth.

It's probably too early to say this but at this time I really feel that the type of leadership Obama can offer is an opportunity this country should not let slip by.

[beaconess]

21. You explain so well why he makes people feel hopeful.

Even if he doesn't win the nomination or the general, I think he will help to change the tone of our political debate.

[jcrew2001]

22. yes

I agree with this and would like to say that institutional racism has led to institutional anti-miscegenation, which has further created barriers between race in america. To tear down these walls of race, we need to create a culture in america where it is free and okay to cross racial barriers. We're all immigrants, we're all one race, and in time we'll all be one race.

As for immigrants being more successful than minorities in America, I think in general, immigrants are flexible and resilent, not bound by a city or family history, they are able to pursue wealth/education at full speed. Most immigrants have the personality to succeed on a greater level because they have already succeeded in coming to the usa.

Minorities who have lived in the same place for generations may be subject to their own personal and family histories of poverty or lack of education. They may have become complacent. I believe that personal success and wealth are gained by taking advantages of opportunities when they become available and having the smarts to create your own opportunities.

[SemperEadem]

29. also, they have laws which makes assimilation into this country

for new immigrants a whole lot easier financially than what is afforded to minorities already born here.

[jcrew2001]

31. here

The black minorities and native americans who have lived in the USA for generations have become downtrowden as a result of institutional racism that has created poverty, lack of education, and complacency.

I wanted to point out that minorities in the usa are not lazy but are forced into complacency by poor schools, lack of opportunity, bad neighborhoods, family history, and a history of failure and roadblocks.

I'm too young to know anything about inner-city busing to suburb schools, but I think its a good idea and gives urban youths the chance to attend good schools. I can't understand why anyone would be against this. Plus, it would make the schools sports teams better.

[spooky3]

26. At an earlier time in our history Irish-Americans & Italian-Ams

and other groups very clearly did feel superiority and inferiority, and their group membership did determine job opportunities. The positive side of this is that the change since the early to mid-50s suggests that we will one day be where Obama hopes we will be.

[Karenina]

28. A very astute comment

and pretty fucking deep for those who have ears to hear... :bounce:

[jcrew2001]

30. not to be sarcastic

But I also think that some of the equality of caucasian ethnicity is that they are NOT black or hispanic or asian that brings different white ethnicities together. Certainly the lower class whites and new immigrants from ireland, etc. propelled racial conflict because of limited job opportunities or economic growth.

Racism and slavery was always driven by economic factors more than the color of skin. Its not just enough to solve racism, but to provide economic opportunies for people of all color to escape poverty, obtain a college education, and a job.

[beaconess]

32. I think you're right

While racism itself is not based upon economic factors, it is often driven by and promoted by exploiting economic insecurity.

[jcrew2001]

35. melting pot

There is a melting pot in the US, and that melting pot involves white ethnicities inter-marrying, such as italian/irish which is very common in the northeast. The common enemy that brought whites together has been minorities and skin color. As chris rock has said, no white person would ever want to trade spots with a black man. The US demographics had been white upper class, white middle class, white lower class, and blacks/minorities.

The melting pot has to include minorities if we are to move forward.

[Karenina]

33. The definition of "white" in America

is "not anything else" that would show up in your skin tone.

[beaconess]

34. and give you away . . .

:-)