Those of you growing fond of Chuck Hagel need to look at this

[n2doc]

and remind yourself- He may be on the right side on the Iraq War, but he is still a puke...

http://bobgeiger.blogspot.com/2007/01/who-wanted-to-eliminate-federal-minimum.html

Who Wanted To Eliminate The Federal Minimum Wage?
Here's the Republican Senators who voted for the measure killed in the Senate yesterday that would have eliminated the Federal Minimum Wage entirely:
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Graham (R-SC)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lott (R-MS)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Sununu (R-NH)
Thomas (R-WY)
For the record, those running for reelection in 2008 are Alexander, Bennett, Chambliss, Cochran, Cornyn, Craig, Enzi, Graham, Hagel, Inhofe, McConnell and Sununu.


(edit for spelling)

[LostinVA]

1. Thank you -- Hagel is FAR from moderate, let alone liberal

[Tellurian]

27. The TIP-OFF this morning was WARNER...

saying, something to the effect..."We don't want the wording in our legislation to be too harsh and insulting to the President"...During the moments of hearing those words. I see guns and bombs aimed at our soldiers, blowing their limbs off, blowing them to bits of unrecognizable human flesh...and this fat, dastardly, horse's ass JOHN WARNER, having the unmitigated gall of not wanting to insult the man who is responsible for killing our children, husbands, fathers, brothers and sisters.

What is wrong with this picture.

WHEN, OH, WHEN is CONGRESS going to STAND UP and Bring our TROOPS Home???

[Buzz Clik]

36. Bush makes the decisions. How he's approached is critical.

If we want our troops to come home, we go through Bush. I'm not a big Warner fan, but he's correct -- insulting the President will not make him more flexible.

Keeping the language on target without being insulting will be a trivial task.

[Morgana LaFey]

55. There's a problem then. Bush is "insulted" whenever he doesn't

get his way.

You have an entirely too generous and Pollyanna-ish view of Bush. Wonder where you got it?

[Buzz Clik]

2. And this "Puke" is crucial in our battle to get out of Iraq.

We need more like him. How many would we attract if everyone called them "Pukes"?

[Caro]

33. What we need to be able to do ...

... is to work with people who agree with us, issue by issue. Those who agree on one issue won't necessarily agree on another. The only way to make this happen is to respect each other, even when we disagree.

Those who disparage all Democrats will never be part of these coalitions, but the rest of us outnumber them. And if we could really get ourselves together, we'd build a media empire dedicated to the truth to counter their media empire dedicated to lies.
http://makethemaccountable.com/caro/Progressive_Media_Strategy.pdf

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

[Buzz Clik]

35. Absolutely!

:thumbsup:

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. Maybe so, but he still in Bush's face re: Iraq.

I don't care for him, but I still like it when he challenges Bush. Wish more would do the same, especially on our side.

Take all the help we can get - even from the RW.

[bdamomma]

4. yea, alot of people are talking about Hagel running for Pres.

we need to be very cautious of him, we all agree with him on this issue of Iraq, but what are his views on other matters maybe purely repub. So beware what you wish for. We need one of our own to be in WH in 2009

[flpoljunkie]

5. Hagel has voted with Bush over 95% of the time, according to MSNBC's Tucker yesterday.

[Zodiak]

39. It's true

My calculations concur with Tucker's

Hagel, like McCain only defies Bush once per congressional session, which lasts for two years.

[havocmom]

6. Hagel, Hagel, of the 'used to run DIEBOLD' Hagel fame?

Yeah, there's a guy to back...

NOT!

He is NOT one of us.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

9. Yes, and the one who taught the GOP

how to manipulate elections, the very same.

[Norquist Nemesis]

7. All you need to know is--95% voting record with Bush

I think it was KO last night that said Hagel's said he'll decide whether he's in or out for 2008 Presidential race within the next two weeks. I'm really biting my nails on this one hoping he doesn't.

[xultar]

8. Why is it people hate Hillary yet love Hagel?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

11. Because there are expectations with HClinton

and you know where you stand with Hagel... he is scum through and through, but has some positions which he feels will aid him.

[xultar]

23. Their expectation of Hillary is that she hold every position they hold

exactly?

Not even Feingold does that. Neither does Kucinich. Who is pure enough to support?

[Morgana LaFey]

56. In your dreams

That's an insulting way to describe those of us who have problems with Hillary. Shall I insult you right back by calling you a fawning non-critical Hillary lover?


There's NO ONE, as you point out, that agrees with me 100% and yet there are others I'd support for Pres. And others I wouldn't. Some things -- or groups of things -- are deal breakers, that's all.

Hint: Non-regretted IWR vote, for starters. DLC credentials as well.

[valerief]

13. The press says people hate Hillary, not the people. The press says

people love Hagel, not the people.

The press is NOT the people, no matter what the press says.

[xultar]

26. What I see here is the people right unless you think the media is posting here.

[valerief]

45. Well, I've only heard the press (and you) say "the people hate Hillary."

I haven't heard people say it to my face (not in the blogosphere).

I've only heard the press (and you) say people love Hagel. I haven't heard people say it to my face.

[xultar]

48. Me neither. IT seems that only Republics and Blogosphere Liberals hate Hillary.

[Morgana LaFey]

57. BLOGOSPHERE = People who KNOW what they're talking about

Iowans aren't crazy about her either, it seems.

[n2doc]

25. I think people feel let down by HRC

and here DLC triangulating. We wish that she would see the light, because she has done and does do good things for NY and the country.

While with Hagel ANYTHING good is a surprise. It is like when Joe Scarbourough comes out against W, or Lou Dobbs. People fall over themselves praising them here on DU.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

31. Exactly so. Said better than I

Thanks.

[mtnsnake]

10. Hagel is speaking vociferously to end the Iraq War & your crucifying him for the min. wage vote?

Right now, give me Chuck Hagel any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I can't get enough of the guy.

[n2doc]

16. Sorry, I ain't a 1 issue voter

And where was Hagel 2-3 years ago? Or 1 year ago? He is an opportunist who can read the polls, in my opinion. I will give him that. But anyone who voted 95% with the war criminal W is not anyone I am going to want to trust or promote.

[Stand and Fight]

49. Two years ago he had almost the same position he has now...

However, I agree with you. I am not a one-issue voter, and when I look at the complete picture of Chuck Hagel... Well, I could never support him running for president. It's a totally different story with Hillary Clinton. I could see not only supporting her, but sending in money to help the campaign along... Her record, despite people who decry triangulation is infinitely closer to my politics than the one issue I agree with Hagel on...

[mentalsolstice]

20. Let's say you "get" Hagel

And he does manage to quickly get us out of Iraq...what are you going to do with him for the next 4-8 years? Hmmm?...while he whittles away your right to privacy, health care, continues to pad the pockets of the wealthy while taking away from the poor, etc.

For me...I don't think so!

[T Wolf]

22. There are real Democrats who believe that we do not need this kind of

POS "on our side" in order to be successful in turning this country around.

Many of us believe that most Americans really do prefer progressive positions and would actively support policies that accomplish those goals if only our party would clearly present (and represent) those positions.

When you compromise with the enemy in order to win a point, you lose the opportunity to clearly delineate the differences between the two sides.

We DO NOT need the pukes. Or would not if the Democrats acted like Democrats.

[mtnsnake]

28. I don't care if they're "pukes". If those pukes wanna end the war, I welcome their help

in doing so.

This isn't Shangri-La we live in. It's a country divided, and the more people we have on our side of thinking when it comes to the Iraq War, the better for ALL of us.

Even if it's on only one issue, the more Republicans that see to our way of thinking on it, the stronger it makes our Party look.

[Lasher]

24. I don't think the purpose of the OP was to crucify Hagel

To me it merely pointed out, and correctly so, that while Hagel seems on the right side now insofar as the Iraq war is concerned, we should be mindful that he is opposed to a minimum wage increase - which is a key objective of the Democratic Party if there ever was one. As such I think the point is well taken.

You can have Hagel all you want but I would very much prefer to see a good Democrat in his place.

Edit: Didn't mean to pile on, mtnsnake. I was a little slow on the draw.

[DaveinMD]

34. damn right

why doesn't he try to eliminate child labor laws while he's at it. That's the next logical step.

[zulchzulu]

12. Hagel - 0% rating with NARAL

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Chuck_Hagel.htm

More...

[Buzz Clik]

37. Sounds like Hagel won't be an ally for abortion legislation.

Gratefully, that isn't the issue here.

[zulchzulu]

41. More on Hagel's political profile...

Rated 8% by the AFL-CIO, indicating an anti-union voting record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 12% by APHA, indicating a anti-public health voting record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 100% by the Christian Coalition: a pro-family voting record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 36% by the NEA, indicating a mixed record on public education. (Dec 2003)
Rated 22% by the ARA, indicating an anti-senior voting record. (Dec 2003)

[Buzz Clik]

42. Okay. This doesn't surprise me. Were you surprised?

I'd suggest that we put this other aside on focus on the fact that Hagel is an unexpected but welcome ally against the occupation of Iraq.

[Cass]

14. Well, look at that - McCain is on that list.

Tha "Maverick" himself.

[n2doc]

19. In my opinion this was all about sending a message to the "base"

They knew it had no chance of passing. But the Senators who voted for this wanted to be able to go home and say "look at me- I voted to remove all lower restrictions on wages! Now give me more contributions" This is the image they seek to project.

[Cass]

29. Yep. And this vote can (and hopefully will) be used against McCain

in the campaign. He voted to abolish the minimum wage altogether - I can't imagine this vote would sit well with working class people (aside from the 29 percenters of course).

[Lasher]

15. This was an amendment to S.2, the minimum wage bill

Odd how that would have worked, having a bill to raise the federal minimum wage with an amendment to make it null and void. 28 yea, 69 nay, 3 not voting. A goodly number came down on the side of truth and justice.

:thumbsup:

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00024

[PATRICK]

17. The Mark Twain story

about the hypocritical businessman who addressed his formal prayers and was answered according to his real wishes, dealing death and destruction and giving him immense wealth. Finally the businessman reluctantly gives a person in dire need a small insufficient pittance. For that the entire heavenly chorus breaks out in praise because there is more rejoicing in heaven for extracting a thin dime from the meanest white man in creation than all the deeds and prayers of the just.

I fear too many, especially Democrats and even here, are in fact like those angels, acting so and enabling these villains with no sense of irony or hyper satire.

[n2doc]

21. Egg-freaking-actly! n/t

[Buzz Clik]

38. Great story, but not particularly relevant.

We aren't applauding Hagel for his conversion to progressive politics (which has not happened). We're encouraged that a diehard conservative is very vocal against this war; we need allies in this critical issue. Period!

[PATRICK]

43. Specifically

We do need, honestly, for the still over represented GOP to undo this mess and I can even applaud the inevitable meltdown of the GOP in diviseness over this issue whatever their motivation. But some here go a lot further, echoing the usual praise for any sign of sanity or possible moral conviction that seems all the more untempered as it is ignorant.

There were a lot of McCain fans among those dissatisfied with our side of the tracks. The irrational fandom so easily satisfied is not necessary when saying the support of ANYONE among the GOP for any reason is needed in this time of crisis. Just getting someone to do their duty is indeed a triumph worth gratitude, but the MSM is depserately looking for a GOPer to mount Bush's white horse. Because they dominate the airways the sheeple instinct even among those who can and should know better drift with their hearts into the hands of the cons.

The Twain story of course was not about the angels but about hypocrisy and its rewards. I chose to reflect on those of us with the power to do the awarding, the people with their remaining votes to choose
and their strange actions otherwise. Watching the US reaction to the clique of the dictators is like watching an even more infuriating remake of Red Dawn, this time with the rebels casting their hopes on a "good" bad guy to save them. All in all though, the Bush/GOP debacle is one of a kind, draining the heart and mind away from its connection to any reality.

[Stand and Fight]

50. Spot-on!

We must remain ever mindful of the total person that we are dealing with here. People must be careful of making hereos out of politicians. The real hereos are often unsung.

[The Count]

52. Excellent analogy! Same with Warner and all the mealy mouthed GOP

Johnny-come-lately common sensers who are lionized now by the media.

[tsuki]

18. This is the group I got running for re-election in 2008.

Senators Who Voted Against the Minimum Wage and Are Up for Re-Election in 2008


Alabama Sessions

Alaska Stevens

Colorado Allard

Georgia Chambliss

Idaho Craig

Kansas Roberts

Kentucky McConnell

Mississippi Cochran

Nebraska Hagel

New Hampshire Sununu

New Mexico Domenici

North Carolina Dole

Oregon Smith

South Carolina Graham

Tennessee Alexander

Texas Cornyn

Wyoming Enzi

Although some have said they are retiring, I listed them anyway. I never believe a Republic.

[mentalsolstice]

30. To tell the truth, he scares me...

If he runs, he'll be everything McCain is, a maverick with military experience, and more...he's younger, healthier, conservative enough to sell to the christian coalition, and good-looking. You think Michele Bachmann was embarrassing at SOTU...just wait until she and other women like her get their death grip on this one...

[n2doc]

32. Any republican running in 08 is going to have to peel off voters

, at least independents. The more we sanctify him for this one position the easier it will be for the MSM to make him the next Greatest New Leader.

Welcome his help on Iraq, but hold him to his record on everything.

And for all of those here who say in effect "Be Nice, he is on our side" I say, no he isn't. He is on the right side on one issue out of many, and he is doing this not because the Democratic Party has been nice to him but because of other reasons. There are many Republicans not on that list who chose to not pander to the most greedy of their base.

[hijinx87]

40. we should resist being blinded by a single issue

I see a tendency to embrace anyone that is against the war, even if
he or she is a republican, and reject anyone that voted in favor of the
IWR, even if it is a reliable democrat with a 100% ADA liberal quotient.

if the war was to end 18 months into the next administration, we will
have to live with 2 and a half years of whatever else is on the next
president's agenda, not to mention the very probable second term. it
appears as though some people are forgetting that.

personally, a candidate's position on the war matters less and less to
me. I think the war has lost it's public support, the democrats are in
control of both houses of congress, and the war in iraq is on the path
to cessation, one way or another. I am looking past the war, and into
the future, and will support a candidate with the more progressive platform.

[Zorra]

44. Hagel is a republican. Never, ever, trust a republican. nt

[n2doc]

46. This says it better than I can

Stupid school-boy crush
Look, folks, I admit Hagel made a nice, impassioned plea to quit throwing lives down the drain, and it was truly a good thing, but let's not get carried away, huh?

This guy is not a Democrat and he is not like a Democrat. He is also someone who actually had the opportunity to stop Bush before and did nothing.

Nice talk isn't worth much - remember Arlen Specter and John McCain's nice talk about how bad torture is? And how they seem to have forgotten that just when it came time to vote? Remember Joe Lieberman suddenly being for bringing the troops home just before - and only just before - the election? Remember all the people who have talked the talk and most decidedly failed to walk the walk?

You know who was a Republican with integrity? Jim Jeffords. Any Republican in the Senate who had integrity was free to join him. They didn't. End of story.

Chuck Hagel, who just voted for a measure to eliminate the minimum wage, is not our guy. Hagel is a guy who both made his money and got elected on some voting machines he invested in. He made a good speech. So what? Talk is cheap.

You want a Senator who talks butch on the boy king's military misadventures? You already have a Democrat, and his name is Jim Webb. You want someone who stood up against the invasion when it mattered - before it started? You already have someone like that - his name is Al Gore.

Now quit getting all giddy because some Republican says something that happens to be true. They've done that before. And then they let you down. So cut it out.


http://sideshow.me.uk/sjan07.htm#01260222

[specimenfred1984]

47. Hagel's a war criminal trying to avoid prison

like all other repukes who've conspired to commit war, rig elections, torture, out CIA agents and coverup numerous other crimes.

[The Count]

51. He owns voting machines, voted for the war - he is GOP- nuff said

I'm never forgetting this.
I'm also enjoying the ride - keeping the perspective. I think he may end stealing the 2008 race though.

[RestoreGore]

53. he also was involved with ES&S voting systems

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2004/03/03_200.html

[Morgana LaFey]

59. Yup

And notice the ties to the Reconstructionists (the ones who want to return us to "Biblical law" and stone you to death for adultery, homosexuality, and juvenile delinquency -- if you don't believe me, google it):

The firm (ES&S), which is privately held, began as a company called Data Mark, which was founded in the early 1980s by Bob and Todd Urosevich. In 1984, brothers William and Robert Ahmanson bought a 68 percent stake in Data Mark, and changed the company's name to American Information Services (AIS). Then, in 1987, McCarthy & Co, an Omaha investment group, acquired a minority share in AIS.

In 1992, investment banker Chuck Hagel, president of McCarthy & Co, became chairman of AIS. Hagel, who had been touted as a possible Senate candidate in 1993, was again on the list of likely GOP contenders heading into the 1996 contest. In January of 1995, while still chairman of ES&S, Hagel told the Omaha World-Herald that he would likely make a decision by mid-March of 1995. On March 15, according to a letter provided by Hagel's Senate staff, he resigned from the AIS board, noting that he intended to announce his candidacy. A few days later, he did just that.

A little less than eight months after steppind down as director of AIS, Hagel surprised national pundits and defied early polls by defeating Benjamin Nelson, the state's popular former governor. It was Hagel's first try for public office. Nebraska elections officials told The Hill that machines made by AIS probably tallied 85 percent of the votes cast in the 1996 vote, although Nelson never drew attention to the connection. Hagel won again in 2002, by a far healthier margin. That vote is still angrily disputed by Hagel's Democratic opponent, Charlie Matulka, who did try to make Hagel's ties to ES&S an issue in the race and who asked that state elections officials conduct a hand recount of the vote. That request was rebuffed, because Hagel's margin of victory was so large.

As might be expected, Hagel has been generously supported by his investment partners at McCarthy & Co. -- since he first ran, Hagel has received about $15,000 in campaign contributions from McCarthy & Co. executives. And Hagel still owns more than $1 million in stock in McCarthy & Co., which still owns a quarter of ES&S.

[MODemocrat]

54. Repubs don't have a whit of compassion for the middle class people

That's exactly why I'm a died-in-the-wool Democrat, and proud of it. When it comes to war, they are right in the middle of it; pro or con. I never get excited about any Repub. :eyes: :eyes:
:spank: :spank:

[Geek_Girl]

58. I'll most likely vote for Hillary before Hagel

Not that I like Hillary either.