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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:13 PM
Original message
Kerry: lots of thoughts
Edited on Wed Jan-24-07 04:17 PM by welshTerrier2
i know there have been lots of threads on Kerry's decision not to run but I wanted to say a few things from my own perspective.

I've had numerous conversations with DU's "Kerry people" over the last few years. Some of these exchanges were charged with antagonism; some were filled with respect. Some were public in GD-P and some were via PM. I know there has been some discussion and introspection the last few days about whether the Kerry people helped or hurt Kerry's image on DU and across the web. Let's put that to rest: Kerry's DU supporters were both passionate and knowledgeable in the arguments they presented on the Senator's behalf. There's no need whatsoever for second guessing yourselves. I hold you all in the highest esteem.

Second, and I want to be very clear on this, I've strongly disagreed with many of the reasons some did not want to see Kerry run again. Those who would never support him because of his IWR vote or his decision not to contest Ohio, whether I agree with their decision or not, seem, at least to me, to have a valid basis for reaching the decision they reached. But there have been others who questioned Kerry's "speaking style" (boring, arrogant, too blue blooded, or whatever) and those who didn't think Kerry should run because "he had his chance". For me, that is just not a legitimate basis to oppose someone. I abhorred the anti-intellectualism reflected by some who criticized Kerry. Complicated issues cannot always be reduced to simplistic sound bites.

Third, I was NOT a Kerry supporter myself (although i supported him in 2004) because I did not like his position on the war. I had hoped, however, and still do, that Kerry would become more aggressive in calling for a much more rapid end to the war. I watched his speech on the Senate floor today. Perhaps this is not the best time to address policy and focus more on Kerry himself, but, he did raise an issue in his speech that clearly defines the key difference between his position on Iraq and mine. I do NOT comment on this here to debate the point but rather to clarify my differences with him. I have never ruled out my possible support for Kerry under the right circumstances.

Kerry made an excellent observation during his speech today. He said that we have now trained more than 300,000 Iraqi troops. He said that it's clear, more training is not the problem; Iraqi troops have shown they are just not "motivated" to defend their own country. They have all sorts of other allegiances to local militia groups or other factions. Who could possibly disagree with Kerry's critically important assessment? I surely don't.

But then Kerry went on to argue that, over the next one year, setting a target withdrawal date of roughly Q1, 2008, we should put the Iraqis on notice that we will be leaving. Kerry reasoned that this will provide them with a strong incentive to accept responsibility for their own defense. Numerous other Democrats have drawn the same conclusion. I couldn't disagree more strongly. Let me ask you, do you believe individuals in Iraq who have been trained as soldiers by the US military and currently have strong religious or family ties to various militia groups will, on hearing that the US will leave, suddenly change their allegiance and do the job we want them to do? Spin it, twist it, turn it - I just can't get there from here. Those trained soldiers have already made their loyalties more than clear. Kerry's assessment of them is dead on the money. Hoping that the "threat of US withdrawal" will change the side they've chosen just does not make any sense at all.

Anyway, sorry to drift off to a policy observation but i did want to respond to the comments regarding Iraq policy that Kerry made today.

I am truly sorry Kerry decided not to run. I am not eager to support anyone who is currently running and his voice in the debates will be sorely missed. Again, a genuine, heartfelt Kudos to DU's Kerry supporters.

Oh, and one last thought on what I would like to see his supporters do next. Some have said they hoped the Kerrycrats would find another candidate very soon. I do NOT hope that at all. In fact, I hope the Kerrycrats choose to remain a voice for change. I hope they put pressure on current and future candidates to move towards their views on the issues. It is our voices that should be followed by the candidates; not the other way around.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sticking with the anti-corruption, open government wing and any candidate who chooses
Edited on Wed Jan-24-07 04:22 PM by blm
to display the fortitude and integrity to represent that wing will be a candidate I am proud to support.

I am hoping Clark or Gore step up on that issue. I fear others are already set against investigations and open government.

Appreciate your thoughts here, welsh.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. I am hoping that at least one of the two that you mention
throw their hat into the ring. I am very sad that Kerry has decided against a run. Have to also say, after hearing Webb last night, I have great hope for the future (he isn't yet ready - but he does have that "outrage" and "how did we get here - need to UNDERSTAND (eg investigate and learn) so that we don't repeat. I hope that the horrors of the Bush era have brought more folks like this into the party who will be willing to buck conventional cautious opinion for the good of the Nation.

I also have faith that though Kerry has decided not to run, that he will continue to serve his country through the senate to take these thugs in the administration to accountability; and become part of the reason the GOP becomes so publically discredited due to their badfaith actions/policies that the GOP of today becomes rebuked (in elections) for generations.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well said, wT2
Very thoughtful.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. Picking up on your quote from Kerry about giving two more years
to the Iraqi's to decide that they are defending their country before we leave.

I agree...I can't understand how "two more years, or a year" or "stay indefinitely" will in any way change the minds of folks who are fighting against an Invasion and Occupation. If the Iraqi's wanted to overthrow Saddam they had their chance in "Gulf War I." I'm not blaming the Iraqi's ...they have been so manipulated for years that their alliances are with their "tribes and families that they know."

Kerry seemed to miss the boat by being Centrist. We have to hope that he was just trying to leave his "options" open in bargaining with Repugs" as he does his Senate work.

Quote from your OP:

But then Kerry went on to argue that, over the next one year, setting a target withdrawal date of roughly Q1, 2008, we should put the Iraqis on notice that we will be leaving. Kerry reasoned that this will provide them with a strong incentive to accept responsibility for their own defense.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. That's one year - it's 2007 now
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you, and yes, I intend to fight for change. I am a Kerrycrat
first and a Democrat second. I intend to support no one who does not show true leadership and stand up for what is right and moral and really mean it.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for a gracious post, WT2
We've definitely butted heads in the past, but yet, I have always respected your commitment to your ideals, even if your reasoning on certain issues made me angry. This is an incredibly classy post, and I thank you for it.

I can't even wrap my head around supporting anyone else. I supported - scratch that - SUPPORT - John Kerry not for any politically expedient reasons, but because he truly gave voice to my values. And he still does. Any candidate who wants my vote in 2008 - for any party - will have to convince me that they are truly on OUR side. I never doubted that in John Kerry.

Thanks again for your nice post. It's nice to read some support from unexpected corners on this dark day.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Hi WEL, I think you will find that the support was
always there......people may have chosen another candidate, but that did not in anyway diminish John Kerry.

Nothing is gained by a 1-sided debate, I just hope that people will try to listen to opposite points of view in the future.

When the heat turns-up.....people tune-out.....and nobody is listening....and very little is accomplished....

Cheer-up....we won the congress and will very likely win the presidency in 2008'.

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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Excellent thread!! Recommended for your thoughtful post!
Upon hearing the news that Kerry would not run, I actually was kind of sad........even though I am a strong Hillary supporter.

I thought of the Kerrycrats and their unwavering support for Kerry, I thought of Kerry as one of the most qualifed people to run. Frankly, I was shocked!

But it's over by his own choice, (at least for 08'.) Time to look ahead and work hard towards the common goal of taking our country back and most of all securing a win in 08'.

Thank you for your honest assessment.
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PresidentObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. While I'm not for Hillary, I thank you.
Today is sad because it really sets in stone the fact we'll never see President Kerry!

I know he can and will do important work in the Senate, and at the end of the day...thats the only thing that will turn my tears into a smile.

I wish you the best with Hillary, laugle. Personally, she's not for me.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. No problem....but do keep an "open mind" we will talk more
Edited on Wed Jan-24-07 07:45 PM by laugle
I'm sure........

BTW, someone recommended him for Attorney General in 08'. What do you think?
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PresidentObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I wouldn't mind. He would do well as AG.
But I think he'd make a great VP choice. Though he's doing fine work in the Senate, and is much needed there!
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Yeah, I thought of the VP slot, but in eight years he
might be too old to run for president. That's why I choose Edwards.

And now that he has chosen not to run, that is highly unlikely.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's possible he'll be considered for a VP position again?
I think he's a good egg, and I am certain he'll continue to do good for our country.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. well said wt2
I liked Kerry talking about working within the now Democratically-controlled Congress to stop the war.

Music to my ears.
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PresidentObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Much agreed, AK!
Kerry's got much important work ahead of him in the Senate. Like showing leadership on the war issue, and showing he was sincere in admitting he was wrong and working to end this war!!

It was music to my ears as well.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. WT2
Thanks for your kind thoughts.

I think your last paragraph says what I intend to do better than I caould have said it. This is not completely a surprise and I think the topic of who else could you support came up often - usually ending in the conclusion that we really really hoped Kerry would run.

Believe it or not, I was always more an issues than a candidate follower - but during 2004, I became increasingly more impressed by Kerry. He is a rare politician who is better the deeper you look vs the norm of it being better not to look too deeply to avoided being repelled by something.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
18. Kick
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
19. Your Policy Observation, Sir, Is Quite Correct
We are simply training the regular forces that will contend in the war lord style civil war impending in Iraq. This is now, to use a home-grown metaphor, in its "Bleeding Kansas" phase, and on our departure, will move on through Bull Run towards Gettysberg. An apocalypse of dissolution is more likely at the end than any analog of Appomattox....
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