I want everybody who doesn't support impeachment to think for a moment

[Bjorn Against]

Sometimes we get so carried away with policy and politics that we forget the real implications of the realities we face today. I can understand that, but I want to ask everyone to step back for a moment and think beyond politics and think about the things that are difficult to think about.

I want everybody to try and put themselves in Iraq right now. I want you to see the child laying on the ground screaming in pain as they stare down at what used to be their leg. I want you to look to that child's side and see their dead parents lying there unable to help their gravely wounded child. Now I want you to imagine the hundreds of thousands of other children in Iraq who have faced similar circumstances because of this war that Bush lied us in to.

Bush did not only commit a crime he committed one of the most heinous crimes in our nations history. He slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, he destroyed homes, he blew the limbs off of children, he exposed them to depleted uranium, and he killed any chance they had at a future.

And for what? To get rid of a man that his Defense Secretary was shaking hands with and selling weapons to just a couple of short decades earlier. To get rid of Weapons of Mass Destruction that did not exist. To spread freedom by sending armed soldiers into people's homes.

Over 600,000 people have died because of the occupant of the White House. If we do not impeach this monster, why do we even have a provision in our Constitution that allows us to impeach? People have died in massive numbers because of this man, and the longer he is in power the more people will continue to die.

George Bush must be stopped, we can not allow him to take any more lives.

[The Traveler]

1. I certainly agree with the sentiment

The problem is, an impeachment is a long and difficult process under the best of circumstances and these are not the best of circumstances. This country is in bad shape, and action must be taken now. An impeachment process would at best dilute those efforts, at worst so consume the attention of the Congress and the nation that little or no progress can be made.

So, I would (in my ideal world) act to contain Bush's exercise of power and make forward progress on those issues while the clock runs to 2008.

However, as I said these are not the best of circumstances. Given his deeply flawed character, it is unlikely Bush will accept congresional constraints on his power. This will motivate him to force a constitutional crisis, potentially far more dangerous than experienced during the Nixon years. Impeachment proceedings will likely be involved in Congress' response. This will be madness, and detrimental to the national interest, and I hope we come out the end with the Consitution intact.

I guess what I'm saying is impeachment could well be harmful but is likely, given Bush's near sociopathic nature, to be unavoidable. And perhaps that is the right thing, after all. The rotten tooth must be pulled before it poisons the entire body and all that.

[frogcycle]

4. well put

if it were possible to marginalize him and just press ahead with fixing things while he sat in the WH wearing a dunce cap, that would be great. But he won't. As his power erodes he'll crack somehow. No way to predict, but he just is not going to sit back quietly and in effect say "I'm sorry I was a bad boy, now I'll be good".

I am not a shrink and don't pretend to be. But he seems like, among many other personality aberrations, a case of arrested development. His grasp of things is that of a rebellious teenager.


So you take away his car keys and send him to his room - he steals yours, climbs out the window and goes out and smashes the car.

In many respects I think we'll all be done a big favor if they push him hard - relentlessly - and precipitate the meltdown soon. That is the one way impeachment proceedings could be expedited. With no debate, it could be over in a matter of days. Doing a twofer is still dicey, since the mad dogs will be crying foul for decades if it happens. It really should though.

I wish someone could get these assholes who thought it was good for the country to impeach clinton over a bj to just stop and think. Just look at themselves and ask how they can possibly NOT be clamoring for his head. How in the hell do they live with themselves? And if they are the evil sort of bastards who CAN live with themselves, then how in the hell can those who put them there live with THEMSELVES?

[The Traveler]

5. Now, THAT was well put.

Me, I've held this suspicion for a while now that the boy is trying to engineer the circumstances that would anoint him "President for Life". So I would like things to proceed in a less confrontational way ...

But is that possible? Or. morally, even permissible? God, I wish we weren't in this fucked up situation.

** Updated for clarification**

[pat_k]

6. Bush and Cheney could be out by President's Day. . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3150402&mesg_id=3157197

[LibDemAlways]

2. I rarely watch what passes for network "news" these days, but

last night I happened to catch a few minutes of a CBS report from Baghdad which had a lot of disturbing footage of soldiers banging down doors, weapons drawn, and blatantly going through people's personal belongings - opening drawers and cupboards - while the residents cowered in fear.

I couldn't help but think of how outraged Americans would be if foreign troops dropped bombs on US cities and foreign soldiers invaded American homes. We'd fight like hell to rid ourselves of the invaders.

What have we come to that this is shown on American tv as though it's acceptable?
It's not acceptable. It's criminal and shameful.

I am in full agreement that Bush and Cheney need to be impeached. They are nothing more than murderous thugs. I don't give a good goddamn that the votes to convict aren't there right now. By not impeaching them, Congress is in violation of its Constitutional responsibility to indict and try those accused of "high crimes." If waging war on a country for no good reason isn't a "high crime" nothing is.

[SaveElmer]

3. Impeachment proceedings would have the opposite effect...

From what is intended...