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Dean called Nader out on his corporate ties at a debate in 04

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:09 PM
Original message
Dean called Nader out on his corporate ties at a debate in 04
Nader is already assuming the Democrats will not produce. This is way too early. Way too soon. He has his own problems with the so-called "corporate greasers", as he refers to them in this article.

http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0106-20.htm

Early and troubling signals from Capitol Hill indicate that the Democrats are not going to move to remove the brazen Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, are not going to go after the huge waste and redundancy in military weapons contracts rendered obsolete with the demise of the Soviet Union, are not going to end massive corporate welfare, as we know it, and are not going to propose a serious crackdown on widespread corporate crime, fraud and abuse.

Granted, the Democrats are making big noises about ethics reform, moving to ban a variety of corporate freebies from corporate jet travel to gifts and dinners. But the 800 pound gorilla is big business money in political campaigns. The gorilla seems not to worry. Fund-raising dinners are already starting up and the corporate greasers are readjusting their attentions to the receptive majority Democrats.


Was it Candy Crowley who already called them the "do nothing" congress? I mean, good grief, give the guys a chance.

I think there is a little bit of hypocrisy now for Nader to be criticizing Democrats before they even get started. Here you go...Salon covered the debate well.

Dean hits Nader where it hurts.
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/07/10/debate/print.html

July 10, 2004



Howard Dean wasted little time getting to the point in a debate with third-party presidential candidate Ralph Nader on Friday. After listening to Nader's standard posturing about how only he can save the Democratic Party and the nation from the "corporate interests" that have consumed politics and government, the former Vermont governor struck hard: "Ralph, I think you're being disingenuous about your candidacy this year."

In his rapid-fire delivery, the onetime Democratic presidential front-runner rattled off all the ways he saw Nader as a hypocrite: Nearly half the signatures Nader gathered in a failed attempt to get on the Arizona ballot were from Republicans. A significant amount of his campaign kitty comes from Bush-Cheney donors. And, said Dean, "you accepted the support of a right-wing, fanatic Republican group that is antigay in order to help you get on the ballot in Oregon" -- a reference to the Oregon Family Council, which produces a "Christian Voter Guide" and campaigns against gay marriage.

"This is not going to help the progressive cause in America," Dean continued. "The thing that upsets me so much about this is, you have the right to ... get in bed with whoever you want to, but don't call the Democratic Party full of corporate interests. They have their problems, we all have ours, none of us are pure. And this campaign of yours is far from pure."

Dean's riff was greeted with gleeful applause, and Nader appeared momentarily shaken by its ferocity. Dean insisted, "My purpose here is not to smear Ralph Nader," which prompted Nader to respond sarcastically, "Oh, no. Not at all!"


So perhaps his criticism in Common Dreams of the Democrats who have not even started their 110th Congress yet....is a wee bit hypocritical.


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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fuckin' A.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. Brevity is the soul of wit.
Well put.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. thank you
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. And the GOP, at Rove's behest, gleefully contributed to him
And stunningly, people who claimed to really, truly, DESPERATELY want change, actually voted for the guy. I think he has gone from consumer advocate to tired old crank. He's working overtime to be remembered as a hypocritical old millionaire asshole. And personally, I find him irrelevant.

If I were going to vote for someone that I knew had no chance of winning, I would vote for Al Sharpton--he has the balls to stick with the party, he makes sense when he debates, he is quick witted and keeps his listeners engaged, and he knows that his participation in the process isn't just about HIM, it's about advancing liberty and justice...for ALL. He understands the quid pro quo concept, and he's not a spoiling asswipe.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. Dean was fantastic in that debate
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. Another salient section
Dean replied that the need to institute public financing of political campaigns is one reason he ran for president and another reason for progressives to support Kerry. "It's not going to happen under George Bush." Then, thrusting again at Nader's soft underbelly, Dean asked him to return the money his campaign had received from Richard Egan, a Bush fundraiser from Massachusetts who served as Bush's ambassador to Ireland.

"I wasn't aware he was a corporate criminal," Nader said in defense of Egan. "He's an American citizen. He might be a Republican, but he just happens to believe in civil liberties, maybe. I don't even know the man. But Republicans are human beings, too." At this, Nader's supporters applauded vigorously, a moment that crystallized how unmoored from principle the consumer advocate's movement has become.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Good catch, Sparkly. n/t
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. k&r
:kick:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Third parties can indeed participate.
Review what happened in 2000.
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MrRobotsHolyOrders Donating Member (681 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Lame
The Green Party of Washington has put all their efforts into Instant Runoff, in a bid to be a responsible, viable political force. I love them (and being friends with one of their muckety mucks), tell them so often for that. In addition to being a neat concept, it sells well (hey, it worked in a traditionaly conservative Democratic leaning county in Washington this year), so go work for that.

But past that, here's a fucking clue: Ralph Nader is an egomaniacle cunt. He doesn't care about the Green Party, or a third party movement in politics. He cares about being right, and being on television. He's right about half the time, he's not on television as much as he'd like, and he's got the personal force at this point equal to roughly Lyndon LaRouche.

The Green Party, at least as far as I've seen in my local circumstance, has no interest in becoming a coequal party. They don't care about state legislative races, county positions, or even in a lot of cases, the schoolboard. They aren't building a fund raising network, or organizing effectively on campuses. They exsist primarily to go, "there's no difference between the parties!" (even when there is, OMGZ!), be irrelevent, and sleep soundly at night knowing that they've got this whole politics thing on lock.

If you're so self deluded that even Hillary Clinton doesn't look like an oasis versus whatever militarist, anti-choice, religious fundamentalist nutcase the Republicans are going to put on show for 2008, congratulations.
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MrRobotsHolyOrders Donating Member (681 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Also
The Democrats have been in a position of power for less than a week. The legislative process, suprisingly, isn't the same as say, walking to the corner and buying a gallon of milk, or hurling a rock at somebody for wearing a Xiu Xiu shirt.

However, when the Green Party takes control, I have no doubt legislation will be instaneous.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. This is Democratic Underground.
You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Nothing personal, just facts. Pot calling kettle.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com:80/madfloridian/33

I agree some Democrats are too corporate, but Nader is not one to speak about that. He used to be, I used to admire him, but he took a lot of money and help he should not have taken.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Another duplicate?? Mods please delete.
Edited on Tue Jan-09-07 12:41 AM by madfloridian
.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
15. Dr. Dean continues to speak truth.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
16. Rock
Nader is an egotistical ass. He needed that.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
17. Keep takin' it to 'em Howard!
Back then, today and for a long time to come. America needs long term dosing of what the doctor is administering.

:toast:

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renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. Nader and McCain have a lot in common
Both once admirable men, their egos have driven them to become no more than panderers for money and votes. I think Nader may actually be worse; McCain is pretty out in the open about shamelessly sucking up to what's left of the base of his party, but Nader is still holier-than-thou to everyone.

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