What's YOUR SocioEconomicStatus Class?

[nickshepDEM]

I posted a poll similar to this a couple weeks ago. This poll was originally posted at Kos, but I thought it would be neat to conduct it here too. And dont worry about location. Base your answer off of were you live right now.
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Upper-upper class: "Old money." People who have been born into and raised with wealth; mostly consits of old noble or prestigious families (e.g. Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, Hilton).

Lower-upper class: "New money." Individuals who have become rich within their own lifetimes (e.g. entrepreneurs, movie stars, as well as some prominent professionals). (could stop working and still live comfortably)

Upper-middle class: high-salaried often highly independent/control/autonomy professionals (e.g. doctors, lawyers, normal business executives); Professional & Managerial class. Live rich (frequent overseas vacations, etc. without going into debt).

Middle-middle class: white collar & some autonomy, salaried management, professional employees, college professors, Master or Doctoral level degrees. Also, small business owners.

Lower-middle class: white collar but little autonomy: bachelor degree. police officers, teachers, non-management or clerical office workers.

Upper-lower class: blue-collar workers and manual labourers, lower end clerical; closely supervised, little job security, prone to layoff/outsourcing.

Middle-lower class: working poor... minimum wage, part time work, piece work, intermittently employed.

Lower-Lower class (UNDERclass): homeless, incarcerated, permanently unemployed.

[Blue_In_AK]

1. I said Lower Middle because I work at home

doing clerical work and don't make much money, but I really feel more middle-middle. My husband's a retired marine engineer, so he used to be more upper-middle (but I wasn't married to him then). Now we've just got his pension which is good.

So on reflection, put us in the middle-middle category.

[Ellis Wyatt]

2. interesting follow-up

After this poll is complete, it would be interesting to quantify these categories with income.

I bet this version (without quantification) would be skewed "poorer" than one with quanitification because I think people tend to think they are poorer than they actually are in comparison with others.

[liberaliraqvet26]

29. Strictly on income would vary greatly by where someone lives...

Someone making $60K a year in NYC or CA is not nearly as well off as 60K in the south.

[wakeme2008]

3. Upper-middle class BUT a lot has to do

with the fact I am single with no dependents.

[Seabiscuit]

4. 22 of 24 respondents are doing pretty damned well here.

And, thankfully, it appears Paris Hilton doesn't post on DU.

[nickshepDEM]

5. I wish she'd post some of those pics here.

j/k :P

[Debi]

6. All lawyers are not upper-middle class

I wish we were!!! :7

[nickshepDEM]

7. What type of law do you practice?

Public defender, State's Attorney?

[Debi]

9. My husband is a sole practicioner

who does mostly family law and criminal defense and I am his secretary. It does provide us with the freedoms of being in the office only when we need to be but the downside is not a whole lot of income. That and he's a bleeding heart so he does too much pro bono work. (and NO I will not give out the name of our office!! ;))

[Coyote_Bandit]

14. Ha!

What a sterotypical view.

The vast majority of all lawyers are self-employed for the single reason that they are unable to secure employment within the legal profession. High earnings are the exception.

Compensation for attorneys varies greatly depending upon the kinds of work they do. Sometimes those fees are set by a court or a statute. Sometimes those fees are based on an hourly rate. Sometimes those fees are contingent upon the outcome of the matter - and, if they are, you can be sure that any experienced attorney is not going to accept a contingency fee case if he does not expect to prevail. The practice section of my bar association advises that an attorney (sole practicioner) can expect to average five billable hours during an eight hour workday. Of those five billable hours, twenty percent will ultimately prove to be uncollectible. The average hourly billable rate here is about $125. That means the attorney can bill about $3125 in gross receipts for a typical week. Assuming there are clients seeking his services. Of that $3125 he can expect to collect $2500 over a period of time. That works out to about $130,000 annually. Out of that he must pay taxes, malpractice insurance, staff, professional memberships, continuing education expenses, and maintain his office and ability to conduct necessary legal research (often a combination of library and internet resources augmented by publications which must be continually updated). Sometimes, there really isn't a whole lot left over for take home pay.

You should consider that attorneys are taught that in order to attract clients they must appear to be financially successful. Attorneys who do not have well appointed and well-staffed offices are often perceived to be less experienced or less competent than their monied colleagues.

I am licensed to practice law in multiple states. Have been for many years. One of those states regularly surveys its members and publishes survey results. The following has generally held true for attorneys within that mid-west state over the past twenty years or so:
(1) The average male attorney earns about half of what the average non-specialized medical practicioner earns.
(2) The average female attorney earns about half of what the average male attorney earns.
(3) Fully 65-70 percent of all attorneys in private practice work as sole practicioners or in small firms of less than five attorneys - and they do so because they are unable to secure other employment within the profession.

Personally, I can think of no better way to lose money than to go into the practice of law. It is not nearly as lucrative as most folks think. It generally requires at least seven years of higher education and a credentialing process. I would not do it again. It really is a poor financial return on the investment of time, effort, foregone earnings and tuition. Many skilled tradesmen earn as much or more than the average attorney.

[Debi]

16. Although I agree with the majority of your post

Some sole practitioners choose to go out on their own in order to have office hours and a billable rate that that they wish to operate (rather than have a dictated rate/billable hours/in office availability) and wish to have more control over which cases they will accept (rather than having senior staff members inform them of who they will represent and whether or not they will bill the client) and do not want to participate in the over-head game that larger firms engage in (how many staff members will each partner pay for/who pays how much for supplies/utilities/copies/new equipment/continuing education trips/insurance coverage/etc.).

You make is sound like the only reason a person would practice law on their own is because nobody would hire them. I disagree with that.

[Coyote_Bandit]

21. Those certainly are good reasons

to LEAVE a firm and begin one's own practice. Which assumes, of course, that one was employed in a firm. And yes, firms, particularly large firms, are notorious for abusing new hires by requiring insane numbers of annual billable hours. And for squabbling as to how to allocate costs among partners.

For the majority of my law school classmates such employment opportunities were never made available. I know the same thing could be said of the four classes that preceded us. Not sure about the others. Likewise, the same was true at other schools in this state.

My class graduated during a recession which struck our mid-west area particularly hard. Our career placement office posted one job opening during our entire final year of classes. The same opening was posted at three other law schools in this state. Ultimately, it was filled by an Ivy League graduate. It was an opening with a large prestigious firm with offices in multiple states. I imagine the opening was posted as a courtesy and without intent to be filled from any of the in state graduates.

Here, there is one attorney holding an active bar license for approximately every 90 residents. Simple fact is that the needs of the population base simply cannot support that many practicing attorneys. I'm sure this varies from place to place. Still, every year I observe a very large percentage of new bar admittees hang out their own shingle and go solo here in this state.

I don't think that is because they are unskilled or lacking in ambition. I think it is related to demand. Existing firms have no need for their services.

[MrCoffee]

13. thank you! it bugs me that we're *named* as upper-middle

i'm certainly not.

[Debi]

15. Don't tell me you help people w/out picking their wallets in the process?

The 'Wealthy Trial Lawyer' persona will take a beating if lawyers keep admitting that not all of them gouge their clients.

(Although.....vacationing in Aruba wouldn't be so bad :P)

[sandnsea]

30. All small business isn't middle-middle either

I think this is more how people judge various professions, regardless of how much money is actually earned.

[against all enemies]

8. Dropping rapidly

[Coyote_Bandit]

10. Depends on what you are trying to measure

Are you trying to measure class in terms of income? Net assets? Educational level? Employment? Family money and possible inheritances? Whether wealth has been recently acquired?

I could give you a different answer based on each of these criteria.

[Hardrada]

31. Yeah, we would be middle middle except we own a farm

in Iowa. Lots of factors could enter in here.

[nickshepDEM]

11. Well, at least no one is homeless or incarcerated.

[Debi]

17. I doubt many homeless/incarcerated are sitting in front of a computer

right now posting on DU ;)

[Infinite Hope]

12. Well, interesting, though those aren't a measure of class. n/t

[leftofthedial]

18. went from middle-middle

to middle-lower two years ago

[Trajan]

19. Hard to place myself

I have never considered myself lower class, because I make as much as some Baccalaurates (with OT) ... Yet I am a blue collar, highly skilled technician ... Because I have long aviation and spacecraft experience, I can command a decent wage ... But according to your poll: I am 'Upper-Lower Class' ...

Go figure ...

[Sapere aude]

20. I have a question that always seems to get me. How do poor people access the internet to post on DU

I am not criticizing anyone but if you are homeless or working poor who pays for you ISP and your computer and where is it located?

One of the problems we have is that poor people don't vote and maybe it is because the don't have the time to become politically active. I commend the poor people who are posting on DU I just don't see how you do it.

[MrCoffee]

24. public library?

[KansDem]

25. One, two or more hours of free Internet access...

...at the public library.

Edited for clarification

[kineneb]

39. sacrifice and budgeting

We are living at the edge of poverty and surviving on Hubby's SSDI. We do not go out to even cheap movies or subscribe to newspapers. There is no extra after the bills, food and gasoline. I consider the internet part of my therapy and my connection to the outside world; I would almost give up the car before getting rid of our service.


I will let my cable modem go when they pry it out of my cold dead fingers.

[PassingFair]

22. Lower Middle Class. Prefer the term "gentile poverty".

[KansDem]

23. Weren't "blue-collar workers" considered "middle class" at one time?

I see now they're considered "upper-lower class."

I thought I was "solid middle class" at one time but now I'm more "lower-middle class." :(

[Lady Effingbroke]

26. middle-lower, (hopefully) soon-to-be upper-lower.

good enough for me.

[slackmaster]

27. Chronically sub-rich a.k.a. stuck between middle-middle and upper-middle

:argh:

[Seabiscuit]

33. Time to dump the slavemaster, Slackmaster?

[LWolf]

28. I have been lower lower class to lower middle class

and everything in between in my lifetime. Currently lower middle class.

[GoneOffShore]

32. Middle-Middle business owners

with some inherited money and no kids.

[trayfoot]

34. I put lower-middle because.....

that is what I was in terms of your career categories. I did not count inherited wealth.

[Clarkie1]

35. I'm a teacher, but I certainly don't consider myself "lower" middle class. nt

[Bjorn Against]

36. Most of us are actually working class

The middle class is not nearly as big as people think it is, and it is shrinking. Most people are working class, we work a lot of hours and are able to make ends meet but we do not have huge excesses of money lying around.

By your categories I would probably fall in somewhere around lower-middle class, but I actually describe my self as working class.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

37. I didn't see 'International Jewel Thief' listed anywhere.

So now I'm not sure which box to check off. :spray:

[kineneb]

38. lower-lower: need to include the disabled and their caregivers there

We are not homeless or incarcerated; Hubby is now permanently unemployed (disabled), and I am his caregiver. I have various cash gigs, but cannot work officially or Hubby will lose his Medicaid. We live on his SSDI payment of $1200 per month.

[Seabiscuit]

40. So where would Robin Hood fit in?