If he is running, General Clark HAS to announce now!

[wndycty]

FULL DISCLOSURE: I'm extremely loyal to the General, but I'm also very loyal to Senator Obama. As the field shapes up for '08, I'm preparing myself to work for Obama and the only thing that can derail that would be a Clark run. If forced to choose I'm not sure which candidate I would go with, however if Obama comes out soon without any indication what the General will do I'd be stupid not to join the Obama camp. I'm not just a supporter but someone who played a vital role in the General's Illinois operation (grassroots organizing, fundraising, ballot access and delegate recruitment)and plan on doing more in '08 for either man should they choose to run.


Now on to my point: In 2004 General Clark got into the race too late and was an inexperienced candidate and I'm not sure if he recovered from this. Since then he has continued to inspire his supporters and win over new fans. Everytime the man opens his mouth I fill up with pride for having been part of the draft movement and his campaign. He busted his butt to help Democrats regain control of both the House and the Senate, his contribution to the party cannot be ignored, however he is not generating a lot of buzz and I'm sure I'm not the only one who faces this dilema. I would dare say there are a number of Obama, Edwards, Clinton, Vilsack supporters who might be Clark supporters if he was emerging as a candidate.

I'm caught up in the Obama hysteria right now and it may be too late for me, but if the General is going to run he needs to step up to the plate now it would be the best thing he could do for himself and his potential cadidacy. Its still early and as we saw with Howard Dean in '04 being an early front runner does not mean anything, however it does not hurt either.

To other Wes Wingers, please encourage the General to announce soon if he is going to run. Regardless of who I work for I want the man to have a fighting chance!

wndycty and the General

Thanks DUer Dogman (who worked tirelessly for Clark in '04 and was selected as a delegate) for this pic

[Bombtrack]

1. come out?

Clark is all hetero baby.

[wndycty]

3. I'll change the title. . .

LOL

[MannyGoldstein]

5. A Boy Can Only Hope...

sigh...

[twilight_sailing]

2. ?

"To other Wes Wingers, please encourage the General to announce soon"

Yeah, sure, OK, I will call Wes up this morning.

[wndycty]

4. Letters, petitions. . .buzz

He was drafted before, turn up the pressure. Encourage the man to run, encourage others who might have his ear to encourage him to announce if he is running. I'm not saying to call him personally, that would be great if you could, but he needs to know if he plans on running he needs to announce soon.

[nodular]

55. OK, but you have to want it awful bad to get it.

"He was drafted before, turn up the pressure. Encourage the man to run..."

As someone with your experience well realizes, it is horribly difficult to become President in these modern times. I'm not at all sure that's a good thing. Probably in the past someone who was reluctant could become President, and I suspect that was a good thing.

But now, it's such a dogfight. You have to be almost a little crazy wanting it, to be able to get it.

I'm just wondering what Clark is thinking at this point.

[Tom Rinaldo]

60. In October Clark was thinking...

...that there are many fine Democrats who could make a good next President, and in more peaceful times he would most likely stay out of it. At a NH house party I was at Clark said the main reason why he is considering running in 2008 is because he has "been there before", dealing with complex and dangerous international situations. He has dealt with world leaders, he understands the dangers of war, he helped negotiate a Peace. Clark believes that he is battle tested in that sense, and that he is prepared to step forward immediately to deal with the complex problems he expects the United Sates to find itself in in the world come 2009, when our next President takes office. Were it not for that reality Clark wouldn't be considering a run for the Presidency now. I believe Clark is considering it very seriously right now.

[MarianJack]

6. I think he'd be a great president,...

...but I'm inclined to believe he is angling more for Sec. of State or National Security Advisor to a Democratic president.

Nothing at all against John Edwards, but I'd hoped for a Kerry/Clark ticket in '04.

You are right, however. If he is going to run, he'd better move damn soon.

PEACE!

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. If Clark is going to run we will hear something in January

Both he and some of his staff have said in public that he will not drag out a decision on this. So within a month or so, maybe sooner, I expect we should have a pretty good idea whether Clark is running in 2008. It seems like a long time because many of us are already swept up in 2008 fever, but it isn't really that a long time. In 2004 Clark entered very late on top of not having any time of staff, any type of organization, any real base of supporters beyond what the Draft Clark movement developed in the Summer. He has time to act, but I agree he can't wait untill the cherry blossems bloom.

And when Clark decides he is running for President you will start hearing his views on a wide range of topics. They are pretty progressive, I am looking forward to this.

[benny05]

42. Just about anyone else who is interested will need to announce within the next 6 weeks

Feb. 1-3, 2007: Democratic National Committee winter meeting convenes, Washington, DC.

The Winter Meeting in part is for 2008 presidential candidates to gather and talk with the Party folks.

[Captain Hilts]

7. I don't think so, and he's my first choice. nt

[wndycty]

8. If he is your first choice that is great. . .

. . .he is my top 2 and for those of us who support him but have other choices as well not hearing much about a presidential run makes it easier for us to support someone else.

[Recursion]

9. Actually, being the frontrunner *does* hurt

Unless you're a sitting VP or President, being the frontrunner this early is a huge liability. More people dig into your past for longer. People get sick of you. In fact, * in 2000 was the only early front runner in my lifetime that has managed to hold that lead without already being in the white house. Remember Hart? Tsongas?

[greenman3610]

10. Now is a bad time

Hillary, Obama and Edwards are going to run out or gas.
Historically, the guy that's ahead this far out is not
necessarily going to do well.
On the other hand, Gore can wait till the absolute last
moment and instantly become the front runner.

[ripple]

12. He said in his CSPAN appearance a few weeks ago

that he's considering a run, but hasn't raised any money. That isn't a good sign, considering Clinton and Obama already have campaign war chests to pull from, as well as backing from traditional high level donors.

Personally, I'd love to see an Obama/Clark ticket. ;-)

[Cosmocat]

17. The other thing I got out of that ...

appearance was that he said something along the lines that he wanted to see if he REALLY had the support of some people who didn't fully support him the last time ...

[kentuck]

13. I'm not so sure...

Nobody of stature has announced yet. When Obama or Hillary announces, maybe he should announce then?

[capi888]

14. Wes Clark is a Stratigist

Repost from other thread:

I believe WHEN he announces he is running, it will be with a plan unforseen, by any candidate. He has been building his supporters for the past 2 years...working with candidates for the House and Senate. If this man can plan strategy for the "Dayton Peace Accords", plan and activate a winning war, with NO NATO troops killed, meet with WORLD leaders, (highly respected by arabs and muslim leaders and loved by their people) I believe he will put together a campaign, that will knock the socks off anyone else. So be patient all, HE IS A LEADER, in all sense of the word.
I really think, he DOESN'T want his name released as a possible candidate ON PURPOSE!!! There were some mentions, then silence...may work in his favor!!! January 2007 we will know...Fingers crossed!

[Pithy Cherub]

15. Clark is a master strategist

and will have the infrastructure in place with means to implement it this time before any announcement or pre-announcement garbage that may other candidates use to inflate their name recognition. A supporters impatience is exactly the wrong reason to rush and do this. The big guns will announce in January or February. Those in need of buzz have announced or will announce this month. Why rush - Clark has already won a war without one American casualty and does not need to rush to manage the impatience of a supporter. This time, I want this if he chooses to do it, to be done his way! I love Wes and he remains my first best choice.

With the current miserable failure at 1600 emphasizing the military, the longer Clark waits the better his credibility on the subject matter that no other candidate has.

Go Wes!

[PurityOfEssence]

44. Yeah, well the "reluctant savior" shtick didn't work last time

but maybe it might on the second try...

[Pithy Cherub]

45. And the understanding poverty schtick

is being erased by Obama so like Avis another candidate has to try harder. National security will be important and since 2004 one failed candidate still doesn't have creds in that area. Clark does! :)

[Gemini Cat]

16. I think he'll enter at the right time.

I'll admit however, I can hardly wait until he does enter the race! :bounce:

[AtomicKitten]

20. I believe he said he wouldn't wait too long this time.

So maybe it will be sooner than later.

[FrenchieCat]

18. Patience, my Brother, is all I can ask of you! As one who wants the good General to run,

He will have to make his own determination on this very important decision. He ran the last time because I for one, asked him to. This time around, if he runs, it will have to be because that what he wants for himself and for Americans.

I have met Obama and I have his book with his autograph in it, and as much as I like OBama as a very bright and shining example of an up and coming leader for my daughter's generation (she is a Black accomplished young woman currently at Harvard), my reasons for supporting the General all of this time does not allow me to just switch to someone that would be so green on Foreign policy at this time. If Wes Clark doesn't choose to run, no matter how much I "Like" OBama, I don't believe that I could energetically get behind his presidency.....although time could change that....perhaps.

The main problem for Wes Clark, who I believe is perfectly suited and specifically qualified to be President at this time, is that the press doesn't ever speak his name, thereby withholding any buzz that he would otherwise benefit from.

The main problem that I have with Obama, who I believe is not particularily suited to be President at this time, is that the press speaks nothing but his name, thereby helping him generate buzz not so deserved.

These extremes are frankly totally inappropriate and curious and are obviously due to those some might call The-powers-that-be who are handicapping the kind of candidates the Democrats will end up with...while the same people are heralding GOP Rudi 9/11 hero Giuliani and John POW hero McCain, neither thought of as green on national security (although I am of the opinion that both suck in this area).

In the meantime, Democrats get as their frontrunners.....Hillary "First Lady War supporting" Clinton, Barack "Fresh Face" Obama, John "I'm sorry about the war but I love the poor" Edwards and John "I ran already so let me run again" Kerry.

So I am of the opinion that of these above, Wes Clark is thus far the best suited to get done what this country requires at this time......and I can only hope and pray that he runs in order for me to have someone to "want" to support.

As I don't see myself supporting those who were for the war before they were against it....as this showed me an extreme lack of wisdom which therefore will not be rewarded by me by supporting them for the highest office in this land.....judgement lacking which I believe is required for the job, it leaves Obama preferable only by default, and that ain't the way that I want to go.

[ksclematis]

59. You said it all ....

for me, Frenchie Cat. I believe General Clark has his strategy planned out for whichever decision he makes. I will support his decision, but I sure do hope it is in the affirmative. I don't have a clue as to who I could support other than General Clark. I've been with his efforts since he first announced his candidacy which was the first I'd heard of him. The more I read the more I liked him, and the more I liked him, the more I searched for further information. I've met him twice, and I don't even think of him as a *4-star General*, but as a man with a brilliant mind who has the education, experience, leadership and personality to bring this country and other countries together with us. As a strategist I believe he can bring some sensible and at least semi-peaceful termination to the mid-Eastern problems created by this administration.

Every day I hope and pray that the BushCos don't go off the deep end and start another conflagration before the end of their term.

[blm]

19. Wes stuck it out throughout the toughest times when BushInc was at its most powerful

and that is why I would have no problem supporting him if Kerry chooses to pass on 2008. It took REAL toughness to oppose BushInc when they were at their strongest.

[abburdlen]

21. just a matter of time...

When WESPAC sent out the email asking folks to updates their profile I got the impression Clark was getting his ducks in a row and will make an announcement within the next 6 weeks.

[JNelson6563]

22. If I were a Clarkie I'd be glad he's been mum

I would happily sit back and watch the battering of the others for a while. I hope Gore runs and that if he does he doesn't jump in for some time yet. While others are bloody and bruised the latecomers (but not too late!) will jump in fresh.

But hey, that's just my .0125 worth.

Julie

[Pithy Cherub]

23. C'mon!

That was worth at least folding money! Exactly right announce or don't. All that other pre- pre- stuff is bad political performance art. :toast:

[Tom Rinaldo]

24. You have a good point Julie

I will say though that Gore can take more time on this than Clark can. For very good and well earned reasons Gore has much higher name recognition and closer ties to more Democrats around the country than Clark does, that gives him the luxury of taking more time to decide than Clark can afford to wait. My fear is that neither Clark nor Gore may run, since those are the two Democrats who I most strongly support for President, and we have heard nothing certain from either of them.

You could say I'm worrying about it one candidate at a time, since, like I said, I think Clark has to decide before Gore. I think that it is important that Democrats who support either man let these men know how you feel.

[JNelson6563]

31. Completely agree!

For obvious reasons Gore can afford to wait later than Clark. Still, I'd be glad he's not in yet. Of course I know you agree with strategic timing.

:toast:

[HannibalBarca]

25. Well

..he is an expert tactician and strategist and I firmly believe he will run, he would, I believe, make one of the best presidents of the last 40-50 years. I know thta may seem somewhat premature but the man has all the qualities in abundance compounded by the fact that his (potential) predecessor lacked ahem certain credentials such as the ability to complete a sentence.

[IndianaGreen]

26. Right now the one that is really organized in Iowa is Edwards

If Clark wants to run, he will have to get his shit together fairly soon. There are two major players that have to announce whether or not they are running, one is Al Gore and the other is Barack Obama. I am not sure that Gore will run, and Obama is in Hawaii communing with the Deities before deciding whether to run or not.

Edwards looks surprisingly strong in Iowa, whether he can do well there on caucus day and do equally well in New Hampshire is another story altogether.

Hillary is not as strong as the media portrays her. Hill has consistently polled below 40%, which is a good indicator that 60% of Democrats prefer someone else to her.

The problem I see with Clark is that he has yet to grab the public's attention and imagination as Gore, Edwards, Hillary. and Obama. In politics, competence usually takes a back seat to panache.

[chimpymustgo]

27. And sometimes the voters have sense enough to see who they like and support them.

Sometimes it's just that simple.

[zulchzulu]

28. Clark can wait until the spring...coming out now is just opening vulnerability needlessly

He's a good man...and should wait until later to decide. Remember that the earliest candidates that announced in the 2004 cycle was early 2003. Therefore, if he announces in the spring, he's actually announcing early.

Remember the adage that the American public doesn't really get into the primaries until November of the preceeding election year.

[robcon]

29. TOO LATE??? that's silly.

It's still 2006. Only those desperate (Kucinich may actually think he has a chance) or totally unknown (Richardson) would announce this early.

It would be a sign of weakness to announce now, IMO.

[k_jerome]

30. although I am 100% sure he will not win the nomination...

or even garner 2nd or 3rd, I would hold my nose and vote for him if he wins the nomination.

[Clarkie1]

33. LOL. nt

[SaveElmer]

32. That's right...

Hillary is building up a big head of steam, and Obama is moving up fast...if Clark wants to get in the game he better do it now...

[Clarkie1]

34. Whatever. nt

[SaveElmer]

35. Are you saying he shouldn't get in ?

Hmmm...well I hope he does...

I like Clark and I think the more strong candidates we have in the running the better it will be for the party...

[Clarkie1]

36. No, I'm saying I don't share your sense of urgency.

Now I think I'll go enjoy some eggnog...

[SaveElmer]

37. Good idea...

It is the holiday season!!!

[sendero]

38. I'm not sure when he should announce...

.. but I hope he does. Clark is easily my favorite. There are few politicians I admire, but he is one even though I don't totally agree with his position on the war.

I'm hopeful.

[NCarolinawoman]

39. Clark is hosting a big National Security conference at UCLA in March.

It will be a two day affair. Maybe it would be around that time.... or maybe not. :shrug:

I will be studying others in case he decides not to run. National security
issues (and that does not mean pro-war), (foreign policy experience a must), as well as environmental issues will be top priority for me.
Oh, and universal health care.

Not a tall order! LOL :)

[dogman]

40. I feel your angst.

I'd love the opportunity to shoot another picture of you and Wes. I've been eager for a Clark campaign for President since Kerry made his concession. My choice would be a Clark-Obama ticket, but then I would go for a Clark-Any Good Dem ticket. Did Tom's post about Clark, Edwards, and the Bar Fight http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3023181&mesg_id=3023181 remind you of this picture? I hope we can work together again on behalf of Clark.

[BootinUp]

41. Somehow I don't think Clark is

someone you can rush into these kind of decisions. He will make it when he feels the time is right. As to whether he is in early or late he will still bring an incredible energy and intellect into this race and will always be a major threat to the other contenders.

[Auntie Bush]

43. Could he possibly be waiting to see who and how the front runners

are doing financially and in the polls? Such as, if Obama sizzles out and Hillery surges with her millions and knowledgeable husband...he may feel the country is in good hands and he could better serve in another post...like Secretary of State or even VP. I think if Edwards or Vilsack surges...he may jump in because he has more important and necessary experiences to lead this country.

Maybe he's waiting to see what bush* has up his sleeve regarding Iraq.
If we pull out he may decide not to run. However, I hope not, as he'd be a more effective president than any one of them in the time of war or PEACE. He is a true leader and will know what to do with this military and financial mess bush* has gotten us into.

In other words...when and if he decides to enter the race may be decided by the national situation rather than the political timing.

[jcrew2001]

46. not running

He won't be running if Hillary is in because all of his team are Clintonites. Heck it was Bill who told him to get in 2004.

He'll be the VP for Hillary, i guarantee.

[BootinUp]

48. To be frank, I don't believe

you know too much about General Wesley Clark.

[Clark2008]

49. WOW!

You must get ALL your news from the corporate media and rightwing blogs.

[Eurobabe]

53. Funny, that's what the stand in for the chair of Dems Abroad said in Munich a couple weeks ago

I for one don't think his comments was very neutral, and it smacked of right wing propaganda to me too.

[robcon]

47. Only the desperate would announce now.

Those who have no public awareness - who have no positions formed - who are like Dean in 2004.

Clark is way ahead of those people. It would be a sign of weakness to announce so early, IMO.

[kevsand]

50. There's a big difference between announcing and "The Announcement."

Only a handful of people have made "The Announcement" so far, and none of them are people with any chance of winning. On the other hand, there are a number of folks who are clearly running already, and Clark is not yet among them. That automatically puts him way behind the others before he even gets out of the gate.

Anyone who thinks that Clinton or Edwards or (especially) Obama are somehow going to "fade" away completely is either naive or incredibly misinformed. Each of these candidates already has both the resources and the public stature to go right through to the convention, if need be.

DUers who are only familiar with the last couple of presidential elections may not fully understand what this go round probably will be like. The last few primary seasons were pretty much over within a few weeks after Iowa and NH. Unlike 2004, the contenders this time include several really big dogs, and they could easily trade individual primary losses and wins for many months. We may not have a pre-emptive winner before the convention.

Ironically, that means that successful candidates will have to start building their infrastructures now. Party regulars are already being pressured to sign on with various campaigns. And DUers nationwide should keep in mind what things are like here in Illinois for folks like wndycty. This is Obama country. If he runs, the party establishment here will be publicly and solidly behind him. Illinois will no longer be in play in any way.

I was happy and proud to serve as a delegate for Clark in 2004, and would gladly do so again. But if I'm going to start doing anything on the ground for Clark now, I have to know very soon whether or not he is serious about running. The time is past for playing coy. We are rapidly reaching the point where a nod and a wink will no longer be enough. An exploratory committee is highly recommended. Barring that, some unmistakable signal to the faithful would be greatly appreciated.

[Tom Rinaldo]

51. I agree. I expect a signal before January ends. n/t

[wndycty]

56. Thanks both Tom and Kevsand

I hope you understand the position I'm in. In 2004 I volunteered for both and ended up working almost fulltime for General Clark which resulted in me not being in the mix for Obama's general election win. I do not regret at all my work for the General, it was one of the most rewarding experiences I have ever had, however when November rolled around I felt like an outsider on a campaign (Obama) that I worked on but could not commit to.

I hope not to have to choose one over the other. My dream ticket remains Clark/Obama, Obama/Clark.

[kevsand]

57. I hear ya.

As the then-president of the Champaign County AFL-CIO, I ended up being Dan Hynes' county coordinator in the '04 primaries against Obama. At the same time, my wife (davsand) was serving on host committees for Barack. Needless to say, between the U of I and the so-called "People's Republic" of Urbana, Obama smoked us bigtime locally.

Champaign was one of a handful of downstate counties Barack won on his way to victory. I love the guy, but you can imagine how it made me feel personally. I can definitely relate to your reference to feeling like an outsider.

And I can tell the rest of the country from direct personal experience that anyone who dismisses Obama or underestimates him in any way does so at their own peril. I was in this movie once already, and I know exactly how it ends.

[davsand]

58. Borrow a page from that Senate primary, guys.

Kev, you and I were split in that Senate race, but we also were in complete agreement that both Hynes AND Obama were good strong candidates that would represent our issues well.

I was FINE with Hynes, but he just didn't politically ring my chimes the way Obama did. (If I'm being dead honest about it, there have only been a couple of folks that really excited me politically and personally. I married one of them.) I'll support Obama all the way through the gates of hell, and I suspect he'll inspire a lot more people to an equal level.

I know General Clark is equally inspiring, and I take a lot of joy in that knowledge. Clark and Obama are both brilliant men with a gift for connecting with people and inspiring them. Clark is a proven leader, however, with a lot of credibility internationally. I also have to add that he looked durn FINE on the cover of The Advocate last time around and I'm hoping to see more photos like that one... :)

I really hate to see you guys talking in terms like "outsider" in this context because I honestly think this is a Win-Win situation. When our party offers more than one attractive intelligent candidate we truly benefit our country. I can't help but feel that this dilemma we are discussing speaks very highly of our collective future, and I'm willing to bet that both Clark and Obama will be happy to have either of you two on board.

Similarly, when the Primary election dust settles I'm sure either of these two men will be a class act standing strong behind the party and the ticket. There is NO shame in being involved in any race that ends that way, even if it is more fun to be on the winning side of it.

Sit tight for now. I think it will sort out sooner rather than later.


Laura

[Eurobabe]

54. That's right, because all of the good politico talent will

sign up with the appealing 'front runners.' Clark might get stuck with the same crap for a campaign that he did last time (NOT at the grassroots level, we were AWESOME!) JMHO.

[Texas_Kat]

61. Or we could get lucky and people like Lehane

could go to work for another candidate.

I wouldn't worry about campaign 'talent'.... the biggest problem last time wasn't just availability of talent. But then, that's a discussion better left for another time.

Most of the 'good guys' from last time are not yet committed to another candidate.

[EndElectoral]

52. If McCain wins, we will need Clark for the nomination....I could support Clark