Lou Dobbs and Bush....they have succeeded in their scapegoating efforts

[madfloridian]

about immigrants. I realized today that they have done it so well, that some very sensible people I know are looking at all immigration, legal or otherwise, in ways they never did before. Dobbs has succeeded in spreading such anger and hatred and fear in some people I would never have suspected at all.

I remember something Howard Dean said last year about scapegoating..it was before it started becoming such a huge issue.

Schieffer: The other day you said something about Republicans will blame immigrants. They'll become the scapegoats, the next time.

Dr. Dean: Sure.

Schieffer: What was that about? What did you mean by that?

Dr. Dean: They scapegoated African-Americans in 2002 by the president using the word `quota,' which was a racial quoted word. They scapegoated gays for obvious reasons in 2004. They put gay marriage on the ballot in 11 states where gay marriage was already against the law. Now they're going after immigrants. You see it now. Tom Tacredo, the most antiimmigrant member of Congress, endorsed by Ken Mehlman--We welcome his contribution to the debate. I don't think we welcome bigotry as a contribution to any debate. You have Arnold Schwarzenegger saying he welcomes the vigilante group the Minutemen to his state in California. We have James Sensenbrenner, Wisconsin, IDs and all this kind of business. So they clearly are cranking it up because Rove knows that people are mistrustful of immigrants. The right thing to do is have the president stand up and say, `We're not going to cater to people who divide America any more,' but the trouble is he benefits from that. He benefited from that in 2004. His party benefited in 2002. In 2006, immigrants will be the scapegoats.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/face_81405.pdf

The scapegoating has worked beautifully on many people I thought could see all the sides of the issue. I don't think people should be here illegally, but what went on this week is scary. Swift knew ahead of time apparently of the raids. It is my understanding they even went to court over it, without bothering to inform their workers whom they had to know were illegal.

It appears they, ICE, just did it at first sorting by skin color, was it the brown skins they put a blue bracelet on or the white skinned ones. I don't remember. In one city I read that about a thousand children were having to be cared for by the community since their parents were at an undisclosed location.

In one article I read that lawyers were denied access to those being held.

I have not heard one word about Swift being fined or punished. Why not? They should not be hiring illegals, they should be fined for it.

The union lawyer who was attacked by Dobbs....it was my understanding he represented all the workers..that it was not his job to sort them or know who was what. Was it only union plants that were targeted? I might be wrong on that. People I know are angry now with the Democrats and the unions...because of the way the issue is being exploited on TV.

Our community was divided by the Iraq War. I fear we are going to be divided by this issue of immigration more than I ever suspected. People who never thought about it, accepted immigrants as part of the community are becoming fearful and angry.

I taught in a school for several years with a large migrant population. The community worked with them, loved those children, provided for their needs. They did it gladly, in the spirit of Christian giving. It is my understanding that it is not that way so much anymore. The divisiveness has taken its toll.

I wrote about this in July, when Dean called Karl Rove the architect of divide and distract. He was right, and they have TV commentators who push their issues for them in an unfair way.

Howard Dean calls Rove the architect of "divide and distract".

Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean issued the following statement:


"As the architect of the Republican Party's strategy of divide and distract, Karl Rove is the one person most responsible for the anti-immigrant platform being adopted by Congressional Republicans around the country. In 2002 it was African-Americans who were scapegoated with the use of the anger point code word 'quota,' and in 2004 it was gay Americans. Now, ahead of the 2006 elections, it's immigrants. Democrats will not scapegoat any group of people to win elections. It's wrong, and it leaves the American people without the real leadership and comprehensive immigration reform they expect.

It is just like before the war. Those of us who see the dangers are nearly yelled down just like we were when we questioned the war. But this time it is by fellow Democrats who should know better.

[babylonsister]

1. I think Dobbs is a racist. Pure and simple. He has other good ideas,

but he's a racist.

[madfloridian]

2. He has pursued this issue so hard, that it outweighs many of his good ideas.

He has done a lot of harm with it. Yes, you are right, he has good ideas. But this is the one that is defining him and hurting our country right now.

[napi21]

3. I don't think Lou is a racist and I don't think I am either!

I resent employers taking advantage of illegal immigrant workers just to get cheap labor! They know they can mistreat these employees and never have to worry about complaints because these people are already scared of being caught and deported. If that's racist, then I guess I am. But I don't believe it is!

If I can't find someone to mow my lawn for $20.00 because everyone I asked quoted $50.00, then I damn well decide to do it myself. i could probably get some illegal to do it for $10, butTHAT would be taking advantage of THEM!

[madfloridian]

4. Why now? Why all the anger and divisiveness now?

I don't think anyone wants undocumented people here, but aren't there more sensible practical ways to use the existing laws?

They are scaring even documented workers. I am in touch with teachers who are seeing it happening.

Why not enforce the existing laws and fine and punish the employers? That would solve most of the problem.

I know it is Dobbs lately, because friends are telling me things he says. They are getting so angry and fearful of people they don't need to be fearful of.

[inthebrain]

5. I'm more interested in strengthening our labor laws

How just make it a crime to pay anyone below the minimum wage. Just remove the exemption for farm labor. I have no problems with anyone coming here and working. If we suffer we suffer together.

If folks are using the laws to capitalism saying that "less poor people increase wages" to support their I arguement I wonder why anyone would continue to support such a system. That's freakin social Darwinism if there ever was such a thing.

Capitalism is a flawed system. There is no reason why we should all succumb to a system such as that. Especially when we have the ability to change it.

[madfloridian]

6. Sensible answer. There is no need for the pundits to divide so terribly.

One teacher in a migrant community shared with me that she has students who cry all day now....and they are not illegals nor or their parents.

:hi:

[Life Long Dem]

7. You have H1B applications as well. It's all the same.

The labor department rubber stamps H1B applications with 99.7% approval. You heard right. that's 99.7% approval! There is also fraud with applicants coming over the border through H1B's with a fake employer setup.

[babylonsister]

8. What does H1B mean, and welcome to DU, L L D! nt

[Life Long Dem]

9. Thanks

That's the immigration work visa. Where they supposedly are taking the finest college graduates from around the world. Mostly they are from India.

[babylonsister]

10. So we're not only outsourcing, but we're welcoming Indians of

potential higher education without a problem. Doesn't India have nuclear weapons? I like to think I'm not prejudiced, but this is messed up for so many reasons, and not because of Indians.

[madfloridian]

11. And it could be stopped or modified easily, without all the round-ups.

They are doing the round ups just to show they can. To make people afraid. They don't need to do it. Results can be achieved other ways.

[napi21]

12. I think that's true! The raids areto scare people from coming here illegally.

There is an already existing law that would stop this in a heartbeat! It is ILLEGAL to employ an undocumented worker! If there were no opportunities, there would be no seekers! Of the jobs weren't there, it's simply not worth the risk!

In all fairness, Lou has also been preaching that for a long time too. Punish the law breaking employers!

[madfloridian]

13. In our area this week, he did harm to the union movement.

Several on my Democratic mailing list were very angry at the union guy who was really just doing his job.

It made people angry when they did not need to be. He really does too much of it for comfort.

I used to watch his show, but not until he is done with the immigration stuff.

[Captain Hilts]

14. If you work in construction, landscaping, or a restaurant, your job is...

being challenged by immigrants - legal and illegal - who will do your job for less money, and/or your salary is being held low for that same reason.

For a lot of people, it's about economics.

[madfloridian]

17. It would not be happening if laws were enforced against employers.

.

[quickesst]

15. Plain and simple....

anyone who decries outsourcing of jobs to "poor people just trying to make a better life for their families", and in the same breath, champions so called amnesty and open borders for "poor people just trying to make a better life for their families", are being rather hippocritical, don't you think? I just love it when people take the full spectrum of a certain opinion, and paint in broad brush strokes, thereby putting Dobbs, and outspoken critic of Bush and his policies, in the same pile as Bush, who if I recall, is more in agreement with a lot of people here on DU than with Dobbs. So screw the Indians, Pakistanis, Koreans, blah blah, for taking our jobs by outsourcing, but welcome illegal Mexican immigrants, who by breaking the law, coming into the country undocumented and taking jobs, straining the health care system, not paying taxes, and sending the money back to Mexico. I've come to the conclusion that the opinions of most people who are for amnesty and open borders do so based upon how this will affect them personally. Naturally, I beleive white-collar workers are more vocal in their advocacy of open borders simply because it takes a lot more education,(that most mexican illegals do not have) to take those jobs for lower pay as opposed to, well, me, a drywall installer, who's job takes only a willingness to perform hard physical labor. Would it be ok for me to be against illegal immigration if my job were able to be shipped to Mexico, instead of vice-versa? There is a wider divide between white-collar and blue-collar than most people, in their naivety, believe. In closing, the employers who hire those who have broken our laws by crossing illegally and paying them more or less slave wages bear the brunt of responsibility along with our broken government, but the hippocracy is rather astounding when put in perspective. Just my o2. Thanks.
quickesst

[madfloridian]

16. As I said....

it is almost impossible to discuss it even here. In our area, one where no one ever paid much attention, one where no one ever said someone was taking their jobs away...there is no reasonable talking at all.

Many people realize what Dobbs is doing. Nearly all of cable news networks are doing it.

Bush and his administration could solve the problem without all the hatred and divisiveness. They choose not to do so.

What do you think about their not being allowed legal counsel?

ICE officials wouldn't say how many people were in custody but promised more
details today. Johnny Rodriguez, president of United Food and Commercial
Workers Local 540 in Dallas, said agents detained about 300 to 400 workers
on Swift's morning shift. The plant employs about 2,300 people.

Union officials were trying to get lawyers in to tell the workers they had a
right to legal counsel and to remain silent, Mr. Rodriguez said. But "they
won't let us do that."

Agents at the scene said the people had been detained, not arrested, said
Mr. Rodriguez, a former meat cutter.

"I don't know the difference between being arrested and detained," he said.
"They are in handcuffs and strapped. It's a mess."

The distinction between detainment and arrest also was unclear in ICE's
statements.

Hundreds are being held, being shipped off to unknown areas, and lawyers are
not being allowed access. Children are being left without family.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/DN-raid_12tex.ART0.State.Edition2.3e6fe74.html#

Wouldn't it be easier to enforce the existing laws and add more laws if needed? Wouldn't that be cheaper and more humane than arresting all these hundreds of people?

Unless it is...a type of shock and awe and a power play.

[quickesst]

19. I don't care....

who, in all the wide world, in all the countries that exist, wants to become an Amercican citizen. I would prefer they do it through the processes that our existing immigration laws dictate. As far as those already here? I think the raid, and the manner in which it was carried out was counter-productive and wrong. For those already here, I do not have a viable opinion, except to say that my logical side is leaning toward the opinion that they must be absorbed into society, with all the benefits and burdens of being an American citizen. I also believe this country cannot absorb people at it's current rate and remain strong. Enforce the law, absorb people at a rate both beneficial to this country and for those desiring to enter in a manner that compliments growth and stability. Those arrested in the raid are indeed entitled to legal counsel in my opinion. I want so-called "enemy combatants" at Guantanamo to have legal counsel, why not those who, in a non-violent manner, break immigration laws. That's pretty much my take on the situation, generally speaking. Thanks.
quickesst

[madfloridian]

18. There's even little outrage over newborn citizens being deprived of healthcare.

A few people here and there care and are trying to continue the care to these newborn citizens. At least I am gathering they did not get the bills through congress to hold healthcare and clergy for crimes if they provided help to undocumented people. I hope it was not passed.

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061104/NEWS/611040447

Suarez, an undocumented immigrant from Jalisco, Mexico, learned Friday of a change in government policy on health coverage for babies born to illegal residents. Newborns of undocumented residents no longer automatically qualify for Medicaid, a government program that covers health care costs for poor families, even though children born in the United States are American citizens.

"It's scary to know my baby will be treated differently because I made a choice to find a better life," Suarez said Friday at El Zocalo grocery store. "I don't know what to think or to do. We are a poor family. I guess there is no way to turn for help anymore."

Suarez will have to leave her part-time job as a housekeeper soon. Her husband is a seasonal construction worker. Suarez has a 3-year-old son, an American citizen born in Polk County.

..."Under the previous policy, women without legal status received Medicaid coverage for labor and delivery, and states covered health-care costs for the baby's first year of life. Babies of illegal residents are still eligible for Medicaid, but now their parents must apply and provide proof of the child's citizenship.

And more on this topic...

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061103/NEWS/61103006

Illegal immigrants are generally barred from Medicaid, but can get coverage for treatment of emergency medical conditions, including labor and delivery. In the past, once a woman received emergency care under Medicaid for the birth of a baby, the child was deemed eligible for coverage as well, and states had to cover them for one year from the date of birth.

Under the new policy, an application must be filed for the child, and the parents must provide documents to prove the child's citizenship.

'When emergency Medicaid pays for a birth,' Norwalk said, 'the child is not automatically deemed eligible. But the child could apply and could qualify for Medicaid because of the family's poverty status. If anyone knows about a child being denied care, we want to know about it. Please step up and tell us.'

Under federal law, hospitals generally have to examine and treat patients who need emergency care, regardless of their ability to pay. So the new policy is most likely to affect access to other types of care, including preventive services and treatment for infections and chronic conditions, doctors said.

Rep. Charlie Norwood, R-Ga., was a principal architect of the new law.

'Some Americans may want to grant amnesty to undocumented immigrants, and others may want to send them home,' Michaels said. 'But the children who are born here had no say in that debate.'

Why not just approach it from the angle of the guilt of the employers?

Yeh, I know. I am waiting for someone to tell me that when the child gets older just explain to them it was not their fault, that their parents were at fault, that our country did not have the guts to get to the root of the problem. It was easier to arouse anger at the immigrants.

[lumberjack_jeff]

20. Immigration should be capped at a level that can be supported...

... at our surplus rate of jobs creation. If more jobs are created than birth rates can accomodate, then legal immigration is appropriate. If not, none should occur and illegal immigration is not acceptable on any account.

The party of working americans should be less ambiguous on this point.

[Critters2]

22. Well said. A surplus of workers drives down wages. nt

[jcrew2001]

21. immigrants

I actually think the Lou Dobbs Democrats helped more for Democrats than Republicans. People saw that the Republicans weren't doing anything about it and wanted a change in Washington.

However, Dobbs and other radio hosts have to put on daily shows, so whether or not they make rational arugments, their message becomes more and more divisive and heated.

I'm a product of immigrant parents, so I favor greater legal immigration to the USA. Some may say that illegal immigrants are being abused by employers, but they chose to work there in the first place. So there is blame on both the employee and employer. The illegals could have just stayed in their 3rd world country.

The rise in illegal immigration is being driven by JOBS. Therefore, its not just border control but the need for more VISAS, so that we can meet the needs of the growing economy. Once the economy hits another recession, the illegal immigration will dwindle.

I favor the unlimited Mexican work visas. I also favor greater Border control/actual borders. All other countries guard/protect their borders, so we should be able to as well.